Why Would A Catholic Vote For A ProChoice Canidate?

[deb1]

Vinessa,(sorry for misspelling your name ) I too went through an unexpected pregnancy at 19. I was from an abusive home with a mentally unstable mother. The man was a one night stand who basically abandoned me. Education seemed my only hope of escaping the cycle of poverty that existed in my family. A pregnancy would hinder my education.

My outlook was admittedly selfish because I was focusing in on my own needs. I felt without hope. Luckily I did not get an abortion.

If I had an abortion the guilt might have caused me to forever justify my action. It would be much easier to try and get others to see the hopelessness I felt at that moment then to analyse why I was wrong.

Perhaps before God my culpability would have been lessened because of my lack of spiritual maturity(this was due to my abusive childhood) but I would still be guilty of murder. That is what abortion is after all.

Think of this analogy. A person has an elderly, invalid who is dependent on them. THis person is stuck in poverty because they provide care for this person. They see no way out, so they murder the invalid. Now imagine further that there are other family members who want to care for their sickly relative but the caretaker never reached out to them. This scenario is no different then abortion.

Some of the most strigent anti abortionist that I know have had abortions and realize their mistakes. But inorder to get to the point of healling, they have to admit that they did something wrong.

I still live with the guilt that I almost murdered my oldest son. Yes, I know that God forgives me, but it doesn’t change the fact that at one point I considered murdering my own child. I have to live with that. Yet, at the same time, as bad as my life was, I can honestly say that I would have had no justification for what I had been about to do.

 

[deb1]

[PART 1 of 2]

1. Have the child and put it up for adoption. Damage to child, being released to the state, and no certainty that child would not be abused. More damage to birth parents (already damaged people) from having to abandon living child in a not so different way from how they were abandoned.

Of course there are no guarantees in life but adopted children generally are placed in homes that have been scrutinized by the government. I have friends that are going through the process now.

Let me say that you have my sympathy. I think that something horrible happened to you and you are still dealing with the emotional repercussions of it.:console:

 

[dmelosi]

Since you identify yourself as a Republican and you identify your self as a Catholic, how do we know which master you love most?

Remember, they can’t be synomyms. Every serious GOP candidate for national office has to pay homage to extreme Evangelical Protestantism. They, in turn, openly profess that you, by virtue of being Catholic, are not even Christian (you’re a “pagan polydiest” and the Pope is an “agent of the devil”)

Jesus has advice on how we can tell. From our exchanges it seems like GOP 1, Rome 0, but it is not my place to judge what that means.

I am a republican because I am Catholic. The republican platform states that it is pro life.

I am not a democrate because they state very clearly in their part platform that they are pro choice.

If the roles of the parties were reversed, my afiliation would also reverse.

Now that you understand that about me and where I am coming from, I have to ask…are you saying that listening to the evangelical protestants is worse than listening to the anti life, pro choice radical groups that will not allow a democratic pro life candidate?

 

[ChrisWRIT]

Hi Vinessa,

Sorry to hear you had such a frightening experience when you were young.

Perhaps you will be comforted to find out that as there has never been documented proof of a coat hanger abortion ever having been performed, “coat hanger abortions” are complete fiction.

Fortunately as well, most kids who are adopted are well cared for (as my mother was.) Of course, exceptions exist, but typically, those parents who are willing to go to all of the effort to adopt a child are not simply looking for a “more intelligent dog”.

Chris

 

[dmelosi]

I think the point was that there are very few Catholics who are voting “pro life” in a true, Catholic sense now. Remember, equating “right to life” solely to abortion is Republicanism/Evangelicalism. The Church uses the phrase in a wholly different way.

My best way to describe almost all politicians is spin, both parties.

The republican platform says that it is against abortions, no matter how you try to spin what pro life really means.

The democratic is for abortions on demand, no matter how you try to spin what pro choice means.

How in the world does any sane person know what is spin and what isn’t? I myself tend to believe more of what the ones say that attempt to be pro life or anti abortion, however you try to say it.

I know it is between you and God on how you are judged, but you are dumbing down the fact and making it easier for those on the fence to vote pro death. How many of those innocent souls of the unborn would feel the same way you do?

 

[AndyF]

I am curious, why would a Catholic vote for a prochoice canidate? Do they not see abortion as evil?

Abortion is a type of genocide, so isn’t voting prochoice a method of giving approval to genocide of the most innocent, helpless of victims?

Some on this forum have said that they don’t want to use only one issue to vote for a candidate. But would you think the same if instead of killing unborn babies, we were talking about the killing of minority adults?

Imagine this: two candidates are up for office, one is a worthless human being but against killing the members of a minority group. The second candidate stands for everything that the voter believes in but thinks that killing adult minorities should be allowed, would you still vote for the second candidate?

I don’t see how killing unborn babies is different then killing adult minorities of any race or religion.

A Catholic by their own definition I can see, one defined by the Church, that would be impossible.

AndyF

 

[SoCalRC]

I am a republican because I am Catholic. The republican platform states that it is pro life.

I am not a democrate because they state very clearly in their part platform that they are pro choice.

If the roles of the parties were reversed, my afiliation would also reverse.

Now that you understand that about me and where I am coming from, I have to ask…are you saying that listening to the evangelical protestants is worse than listening to the anti life, pro choice radical groups that will not allow a democratic pro life candidate?

No, I am saying that the Republican platform is anti-abortion, not pro-life. And I would go further in saying that it is more rhetoric than substance. Look at how many GOP hopefuls (or for that matter, GOP leaders) have connections to abortion and euthanasia.

I applaud any politician for being anti-abortion, but I am compelled by my faith to vote fully pro-life.

Who said anything about listening? I celebrate freedom of speech and freedom of religion. But I don’t support theocratic policies. If you load the justice department with graduates from a bottom tier law school, all because they are ‘good’ Christians, you end up getting policies which discriminate against ‘bad’ Christians (IE, Catholics).

Remember, the lawsuit against the USAF is from Ronald Reagan’s assistant general council. It isn’t some ‘lefty’ plot. Similarly, it wasn’t Godless aethiests that filed suit in MO, it was two Catholic families and one Jewish family.

The problem with supporting a theocracy is that it oppresses a segment of the population. This is always wrong for Catholics, but it is easier to grasp why when we are among the oppressed.

 

[SoCalRC]

Perhaps you will be comforted to find out that as there has never been documented proof of a coat hanger abortion ever having been performed, “coat hanger abortions” are complete fiction.

I think you may have mispoken. We don’t have any significant evidence of ‘back alley abortions’. Most illicit abortions were (and still are around the world) performed by medical professionals. Since they have access to plasma and antibiotics, maternal deaths were relatively rare - that is, rare after WW-II, prior to the widespread use of plasma and antibiotics, deaths were significantly higher.

When 15 states liberalized their laws just prior to Roe, maternal deaths did drop at least 10 fold, but in absolute numbers we are talking 200 or so versus less than 20.

However, most those deaths would best be construed as ‘coat hanger’ abortions. Primarily amature attempts by scared teenagers.

Regarding adoption: All my siblings have adopted and my wife and I planned on adopting before our youngest was born severely disabled. So I can say with some experience that the system is quite broken, and our foster care system even more so. Telling ourselves that there are wonderful, easy, alternatives is a little bit of self delusion.

 

[vinessa]

My outlook was admittedly selfish because I was focusing in on my own needs. If I had an abortion the guilt might have caused me to forever justify my action.

Deb, I don’t disagree with you. I had to repent, to be where I am now. But I would say there’s a difference between “justifying” and explaining. I was not Catholic then. I was an abandoned, hurting person, with nobody on the horizon to help me.

I don’t really need to justify myself. To whom would I justify myself anyway? I don’t need to keep up a false front.

I’m also not in the baby-killer camp. I’m only saying that criminalizing women who are already in a bad way is not the right approach – in my opinion. Pro-life advocates, in my experience, have a tendency to be black-or-white (not unlike the Pharisees), and show very little practical compassion.

Forget the unwed aborting mother for a moment. The question is how do WE react? What do WE do when confronted with her pain, shame, selfishness, or confusion?

Do we invite the women into our home? Do we offer to care for both her and her child? Or do we stay safe in our homes, or safe inside our self-righteous “action groups”, agitating for legislation from a distance… but never opening up *our own lives *to confused, hurting people?

I’d like to hear from some pro-life people about how they NOT ONLY took care of their own children, but how they offered solid, ongoing care and charity to others, including the mothers, over time. I’d also like to hear how MORE energy is being given to creating a just society, with equal care and resources available to everyone, so that abortion becomes as rare as smallpox.

It’s easy to condemn and criminalize. It’s a lot harder to have compassion and offer tangible, concrete care, on a one-to-one basis, over time.

It’s not about what they do, it’s about how we react, or act.

 

[seekerz]

Very extreme bad example.

Why is it a bad example? There are two sides to every coin. Some people would give their lives to end abortion and would just as easily give their lives fighting in unjust wars that also kill innocent children and *pregnant *women - the opposite type of person is just as commonly encountered.

There can be no selectivity in being pro-life and the wrongness of abortion or unjust wars has absolutely nothing to do with numbers and everything to do with throwing back into God’s face the lives He breathed into being.

Personally, since God alone knows the heart and the evil man is potentially capable of, I ask Him to lead me to the right choice without any preconceived notions. Ultimately, He is in control and no leader (of good or evil character) can assume power if He does not allow it.

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

A well-known member of our parish is running for Congress. He is a Democrat (VERY LIBERAL) and stated to me that he is Pro-Choice.

His social arguments are compelling, as he is a Doctor of History.

When I asked him how he reconciles his political position with his faith, he stated that the Church’s logic was faulty and misleading.

While I really like him, I am in a quandry.

 

[dmelosi]

Why is it a bad example? There are two sides to every coin. Some people would give their lives to end abortion and would just as easily give their lives fighting in unjust wars that also kill innocent children and *pregnant *women - the opposite type of person is just as commonly encountered.

There can be no selectivity in being pro-life and the wrongness of abortion or unjust wars has absolutely nothing to do with numbers and everything to do with throwing back into God’s face the lives He breathed into being.

Personally, since God alone knows the heart and the evil man is potentially capable of, I ask Him to lead me to the right choice without any preconceived notions. Ultimately, He is in control and no leader (of good or evil character) can assume power if He does not allow it.

It is a bad example because 1.3 million of the most innocent are murdered every year. There is no argument from anyone that these lives and that there are that many are ended.

I am guessing that you mean that the Iraq war was unjust, do you realize that Sadaam was given credit for about a million deaths? What is that number now? That can be argued by both sides whether it is just or not.

1.3 million is not some preconceived notion but a fact.

 

[dmelosi]

A well-known member of our parish is running for Congress. He is a Democrat (VERY LIBERAL) and stated to me that he is Pro-Choice.

His social arguments are compelling, as he is a Doctor of History.

When I asked him how he reconciles his political position with his faith, he stated that the Church’s logic was faulty and misleading.

While I really like him, I am in a quandry.

Should be no quandry whatsoever if you think that abortion is murder. The arguments by some on here try to make it something less, then less, then less, constantly dumbing down what it really is until many accept it.

If you look at any Christian religion, none believed that abortion was anything but killing until the not so distant past.

 

[vern_humphrey]

A well-known member of our parish is running for Congress. He is a Democrat (VERY LIBERAL) and stated to me that he is Pro-Choice.

His social arguments are compelling, as he is a Doctor of History.

When I asked him how he reconciles his political position with his faith, he stated that the Church’s logic was faulty and misleading.

While I really like him, I am in a quandry.

How can it be a quandry? If he supports killing the innocent, you can refuse to vote for him.

 

[seekerz]

It is a bad example because 1.3 million of the most innocent are murdered every year. There is no argument from anyone that these lives and that there are that many are ended.

I am guessing that you mean that the Iraq war was unjust, do you realize that Sadaam was given credit for about a million deaths? What is that number now? That can be argued by both sides whether it is just or not.

1.3 million is not some preconceived notion but a fact.

I did not specifically mention Iraq because my concern is about a candidate’s values and potential to commit or prevent evil. Iraq is a fact or life, whether or not you consider it a just war.

I’m thinking more along the lines of: What would this candidate potentially do about abortion? Would this candidate risk innocent life in an unjust war?

In discussions of loss of life, I find that numbers take away rather than add to the value of a single human life. Something is not more wrong or right simply based on body count.

If we Christians had to go with body count, we should all be out there protesting poverty worldwide (instead of the much needed protest against abortion), because that is that is the all-time, number one, preventable cause of death of God’s creatures.

 

[vinessa]

Perhaps you will be comforted to find out that as there has never been documented proof of a coat hanger abortion ever having been performed, “coat hanger abortions” are complete fiction.

Chris – It sounds like a comforting fiction to believe this. I know two older women, one black, one white, who went through these abortions. One could never have children again although she’s lucky to be alive. The other did have two children much later, but then got pre-cancerous endometriosis and had to have a hysterectomy.

Y’know, I lived in Egypt for awhile about 10 years ago and nearly everybody there thinks the Holocaust was also a myth and never occurred. The power of propaganda is amazing to me. Where did you pick up this “fact”?

 

[dmelosi]

I did not specifically mention Iraq because my concern is about a candidate’s values and potential to commit or prevent evil. Iraq is a fact or life, whether or not you consider it a just war.

I’m thinking more along the lines of: What would this candidate potentially do about abortion? Would this candidate risk innocent life in an unjust war?

In discussions of loss of life, I find that numbers take away rather than add to the value of a single human life. Something is not more wrong or right simply based on body count.

If we Christians had to go with body count, we should all be out there protesting poverty worldwide (instead of the much needed protest against abortion), because that is that is the all-time, number one, preventable cause, of death of God’s creatures.

If we Christians would all do what we are supposed to do, help those in need, poverty…homeless…etc that travesty would be eliminated. Abortion gives the baby none, zero, zippo chance. So let me understand you…you are saying that it is worse to live what we perceive as a hard life than to have the chance to live at all?

 

[BamaRider]

Look, from what I can gather from some of us, when confronted with a pro life repub, or a pro choice dem, they’re gonna sit out.

I wish they’d come over and vote pro life, but if they feel they gotta make a statement, then at least the other side is gonna be minus a few votes. :twocents:

 

[wow]

With all the Republican canidates that profess pro-life, only one showed up to the March for Life…he’s getting my vote!

 

[vern_humphrey]

With all the Republican canidates that profess pro-life, only one showed up to the March for Life…he’s getting my vote!

We had a couple of dozen pro-life politicians at the March for Life in Little Rock. I spoke to several of them.

And I always see a healthy turnout at the Rose Dinner – the annual fundraising gala for Right to Life.