Why would a straight person leave the Catholic Church over our teaching on gay marriage?

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Lara said:
Their agenda isn’t even known by all of them and certainly not by many Catholics. I wouldn’t be surprised if LGBT-supporting people are paid to hijack these threads on CAF.
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I’m gay and I didn’t know about this conspiracy. Maybe a secret document with all the details of this agenda will show up someday. But that would kind of remind me of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which Wikipedia describes as follows:
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion…or The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion is an antisemitic fabricated text purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination. The forgery was first published in Russia in 1903, translated into multiple languages, and disseminated internationally in the early part of the 20th century. According to the claims made by some of its publishers, the Protocols are the minutes of a late 19th-century meeting where Jewish leaders discussed their goal of global Jewish hegemony by subverting the morals of Gentiles, and by controlling the press and the world’s economies.
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It turns out this Jewish conspiracy never existed so maybe this gay conspiracy doesn’t exist either.
 
Lara said:
You don’t attend to Church, stating as you have that you are agnostic but originally raised Catholic, but yet you say, “I don’t see the clergy telling a couple (like the one in my scenario) that they can’t attend as a couple and to knock off the handholding or else they aren’t welcome to attend.”

What if the clergy did tell them to knock it off? Are you okay with the Church exercising that authority? I would encourage the priest to do just that.
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My family attends the local Catholic Church. I know the clergy there. When I said “I don’t see”, I said it as in “I don’t see it in my crystal ball, if it were to happen”.

No body has a right or obligation to tell a couple they can’t attend church based on their homosexuality. Why? Because nobody knows if the couple is having sex other than the couple (usually). If I am not mistaken, that is the part the Church finds objectionable. Homosexuals having sexual relations that are not ordered towards pro-creation. There isn’t anything about a non-sexually active couple not being allowed to live together, or hold hands, or give each other a valentine’s card. So that is a problem. And that was the point I was trying to make. These couples have every right to be in Church, receive communion, etc. etc. They should be welcomed with open arms. And just because they are couples it shouldn’t be assumed they are sexually active. Heterosexual couples come to Church who aren’t married and I don’t think everyone assumes they are having sex. Why should it be any different for homosexual couples? I don’t suggest I am naive, but I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. Afterall, tey are in Church for a reason, right? The hateful attitudes expressed in this thread answer the original question of the OP, I am afraid.
 
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Are you saying you are a man, and passionately kissed another man in a Roman Catholic Mass? Is that what you’re saying?
 
Mass isn’t really the place for public affection in the first place.
 
No. I was responding to the part about any couple not performing such displays.
 
guanophore said:
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QwertyGirl:
I believe the revolution may very well be that the nice gay couple down the street, and many more they know, are going to flood your church and the rest of the churches each sunday.
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The reason this is not likely is that the Church teaching will not change. If gay couples are interested in spirituality, they will find it elsewhere.
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I also don’t think that gay men will start flooding into Catholic churches, even those who come from a Catholic background. I wouldn’t want to be part of a church where I would feel unwelcome if I were to reveal that I’m gay and have a same-sex partner. And most gay men I know who come from a religious background have been so wounded by their experience that they won’t even attend churches that would welcome them such as the Episcopalian church or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Even when I have attended those churches, I haven’t seen very many gay men or lesbians.
 
QwertyGirl said:
The will sign up for potluck dinners as “Bob and Bill Smith- chicken casserole and a salad” and they will come and they will bring the chicken casserole and salad. And while they are there they will share pictures of their grandchildren and talk about the house they just bought together. In other words, they aren’t going to hide themselves away. They may agree with everything the Church teaches, except for its stance on human sexuality (just like the straight, married couples who masturbate or use contraception guilt-free) and they don’t consider that a reason to stay away.

All I am saying is you might want to start considering it. I have no doubt that one day it will be reality.
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It pretty much is in parishes in San Francisco. Men and women come with their partners or spouses. They bring their children to the parish schools. They sit in the pews as a family - which they are. Some are single, looking for friends in the parish. Some are partnered with no children. Some have children. It really is not exceptional at all. I know San Francisco is not Dubuque, Iowa, but for us, it is the new norm.
 
“Their agenda isn’t even known by all of them and certainly not by many Catholics. I wouldn’t be surprised if LGBT-supporting people are paid to hijack these threads on CAF.”
Paid, yes, quite possibly. And possibly not in any earthly coin–rather in something with the reek of sulfur to it.
 
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Satan use human beings all the time to do his work. I’m sure destruction of the Church is high on his list and those who do his bidding, consciously or otherwise, are actively involved.
 
QwertyGirl said:
A couple can be a couple without having sex. I believe this is what the Church encourages for non-married heterosexual couples.
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Two people can share living arrangements without having sex, certainly, but to publicly present themselves as a "couple’ is to give rise to scandal in the Church, which is also a sin.

The Church discourages co-habitation of unmarried couples because of the near occasion of sin, as well as the public appearance.
anon10271182 said:
Oh, I don’t equate myself to Jesus in that (or any) passage of Scripture… I’m just one of the sheep, constantly trying to hear his voice above the infernal din.
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That is certainly convenient. One can divest oneself of any responsibility for not acting as Christ would do because one is not “equal” to God?

Matthew 10:38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

So you can avoid picking up the cross of loving your neighbor and following Christ’s example to go after the lost sheep because you are not “equal” to God?

Jude 1:23 save some, by snatching them out of the fire…

I suppose that you are not responsible for trying to save some of the sheep, too, by snatching them out of the fire? Does this not apply to you because you are not “equal” to God?
Lara said:
Definitely. If they obstinately choose to not follow the Church’s teachings until death, they won’t get to heaven anyhow. What difference will all that pussyfooting around do that others are advocating?
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That is just the point, though. If one begins with the idea that people are “obstinate” in their choices, rather than ignorant, then one has bypassed the opportunity to instruct the ignorant. How is it up to you to know if they will persist in not following until death? Why assume that they cannot be snatched from the fire? There is no charity here, no heart to correct a sibling in Christ. It is almost as if, since hell is such a sure outcome, they might as well be put to death rather that converted.

On the contrary, the Church teaches that 1870 “God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all” (Rom 11:32).

You and I, Lara, are not any more deserving of God’s mercy. It is a hubris not to recognize it.
Lara said:
Purify away. And if I’m purified out of the Church, it’s by my own doing.
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I certainly hope, for your sake, that someone is loving enough to at least attempt to snatch you out of the fire.
 
QwertyGirl said:
No body has a right or obligation to tell a couple they can’t attend church based on their homosexuality. Why? Because nobody knows if the couple is having sex other than the couple (usually).
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I think you misunderstood. The issue is not what is privately happening between people, it is what is publicly happening in Church. There are a great many behaviors that are not acceptable at Mass, and people may be asked to leave. The pastor once physically removed a man who was cussing during the Liturgy. Some people are just not ready to be at Mass.
QwertyGirl said:
There isn’t anything about a non-sexually active couple not being allowed to live together,
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Of course there is. And giving scandal is by no means limited to people having same sex attraction. 2326 Scandal is a grave offense when by deed or omission it deliberately leads others to sin gravely.
QwertyGirl said:
These couples have every right to be in Church, receive communion, etc. etc.
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The Mass is open to everyone, provided they conduct themselves appropriately. Giving scandal during the Mass is not appropriate.

No one has the “right” to communion. Communion is a great privilege purchased for us by the Blood of Christ. Those who reject the teachings of the Church are spurning the body and blood.
Thorolfr said:
I wouldn’t want to be part of a church where I would feel unwelcome if I were to reveal that I’m gay
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Well, this is a serious problem among Catholics because the Church teaches that same sex attraction is not a sin, and that Catholics have an obligation to love and support those who struggle with it. As some of the responses on this thread clearly indicate, there is a grievous lack of love, mercy, and forbearance.

It is a sin that every single soul is not welcomed into the Catholic Church. The notion that the Church must be “purified” of certain sinners is a reflection more on the persons wanting the “purification” than it is Christ. It reveals an arrogance and pride that reflects a person does not know that their own sins are just as bad.
anon10271182 said:
Satan use human beings all the time to do his work. I’m sure destruction of the Church is high on his list and those who do his bidding, consciously or otherwise, are actively involved.
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Yes, I agree. Fomenting the idea that some people’s sins are worse than one’s own not the least!
 
I don’t care what you think. Please stop following me around CAF and badgering me. Thank you.
 
This is a long thread and I must have missed the serious listing of the gay agenda. Would .someone list it again
 
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