Why would God care who we have sex with?

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These Bible passages in Genesis are just as metaphorical as the description of God’s creation of the universe in 7 days. But you can insist on remaining stubbornly dense and continue to deny this.
Metaphor or literal, it matters not, as the Bible has painted itself into a corner, in that the only means to multiply the species is through familial sexual relations. Ewwww…

But that’s your Holy Book, not mine.

On another note, it’s a shame that the inspired word of God didn’t give a litteral account regarding the propagation of the human species. 😦
 
I have another question.
Given those pretenses in your estimation (consensual, legal) it is morally permissible to have consensual gay sexual relationships in the US, but it is not morally permissible in Zimbabwe? How does the location change the moral value?
Given that, there were anti-sodomy laws in most states of the US, though many have been repealed. Until the Supreme Court invalidated all sodomy laws after Lawrence v. Texas in 2003 there were active sodomy laws left in some of the states like Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Virginia. The ones I just mentioned still have these laws but due to the Court ruling they are overruled… A couple of other states repealed their laws after the Lawrence v. Texas decision.
Do you think that it was morally wrong to have consensual gay sexual relationships in Texas until 2003 and after that it became morally right? What is the difference in the moral value between 2002 and 2003? Why is it that you think that between 1975 and 2003 it was morally right to have consensual gay sex in Las Cruces, NM, while it was morally wrong to have it in El Paso, TX? They are only 50 miles apart.

Homosexual acts are punishable by death in Pakistan but legal in India. When a couple crosses the border and has sex there does that make it morally wrong and indeed worthy of punishment?

Your logic doesn’t make sense. Just because 2 people agree and the law of the land is not violated, does not make it morally right.
Sexually relations between consenting adults is fine by me. The Nations that prohibit homosexual sex are either backwards or overtly religious.

If you start drawing silly examples, such as; cannibalism or murder…you’re actually staring to frighten me, as I wonder if the only thing keeping some people from doing such horrific acts, is the fear of a supernatural God. :eek:
 
Hence the " so long as no laws are being broken."

In the civilized secular Nation in which I live, you cannot consent to bodily harm or death.
I still say your idea towards what is harmful is still largely incorrect. And the legal system does not as it can not provide a moral compass.

If you were to take a class that deals with the introductory of the legal system, it is discussed that laws can not be applied to base moral compass. business courses have complete chapters between moral behavior and law concluding exact same lesson. The Catholic Church’s teaching is similar as the law is formatted by individuals with a difference in opinions, and the law does not reflect whether something is good or bad (only legal and illegal).

Alcohol is greatly harmful and yet thousands still drink themselves to death as millions poison their bodies and increase kidney disease as well as creating the potential for psychological set backs. However, it is still legal to drink.

Marijuana is supposedly legal in California, but still illegal according to the U.S. federal courts (The U.S. was established under a republic govt. system with a centralized federal system, however, attitudes towards such systems have even started the American Civil War as well as other events). The legal system today has zero accuracy on where it stands as well as whether or not marijuana is legal or illegal. The actions against the subject seem to be none. This gives support that a country’s legal system is backwards and never direct correct, nor balanced moral compass. there is a great amount of individuals to claim that this drug is harmless, however there are still physical damages to the body. Mentally a person will become addicted to their high and constantly focus for that high. They may adventure into more biologically harmful narcotics or even use it as a means of escape from difficult or unpleasant situations.

The US among other countries have also long been governed by a single description of men. it was law that only white, property owning men could vote. NO blacks, women, hispanics, orientals, etc. I know I just used two words that are incorrect to say, however, I still wrote them for you to see it. why; because that is actually how it was written. Sometimes other words would be used in written law to describe a group of people, but I thought I’d allow your imagination while thinking. Now I know that it is morally wrong and socially to reject a woman’s ability to speak up and have her voice heard on a ballot just as much it is to do the same to a person simply because they look different. However, within the U.S. alone, the U.S. Supreme Court once said that that a black man was not human, and now they attempt to state you are only human after birth.

Over all, the law is NOT a source of moral backbone! I chose “backbone” for a big reason. Morals set the character for a person, and what kind of person would you be if you changed your mind all the time, and never held clear reasons to what to believe? well besides most likely being a politician, you’d have a very weak moral backbone to understand right from wrong. after all that is what morals supply us. a sense of right and wrong, but then again the law only states what is legal and illegal.

There are also many legal activities that may still place a person under physical harm as well as a more important mental harm. abortion is currently legal in several countries, and yet not only is this KILLING or as some would say MURDERING a child, but has a great physical effect on the woman. (americanpregnancy.org/unplannedpregnancy/possiblesideeffects.html ; afterabortion.org/physica.html)ThereThere) are also several known psychological dangers as well(afterabortion.org/psychol.html). So is it moral? it’s legal, but brings harm. what the fudge?
 
Zatzat

*Not at all. Regardless of the laws, permanent harm should not come to another person. Freedom from harm is a fundamental human right. I have the impression that you believe that without God, anything goes! *

But that is the impression I have of your moral stance. Anything goes as long as it is between consenting adults. Didn’t you say a little while ago that sado-masochistic relationships between consenting adults are not disordered, and can even be more rewarding than normal relationships?

Also, in homosexual relationships, cannot permanent harm come from AIDS?

Seems to me the corner you are painting yourself into is getting smaller. Aren’t you already standing on one foot? 😃
 
Metaphor or literal, it matters not, as the Bible has painted itself into a corner, in that the only means to multiply the species is through familial sexual relations. Ewwww…
But that’s your Holy Book, not mine.
On another note, it’s a shame that the inspired word of God didn’t give a litteral account regarding the propagation of the human species. 😦
First off to correct a previous statement, the Bible is to be read in both metaphorical and literal. You can read a sentence in there and it could have a meaning to cover both instances. For example; Adam and Eve are literally the first humans as well as metaphorically the first humans. how? well the Bible does not state that Adam and Eve were the absolute first two, however, if one was to look towards biology there has to be two in the first place in order to mate. therefore there literally were two humans to start no matter what they looked like or how hairy they were. According to Zatzat, inter-species relations normally does not occur, and this is correct. Biology would support the two as well. For you see if ‘evolution’ was correct then if there was only one human(or start of a human…what ever you want to call it) then the other members of the species would not mate with the mutated thing. Not sure what you think about evolution Zatzat, but mutation may bring different adaptations, but the goal of a species is to continue with the ‘strongest’ and ‘best’ (funny how most atheists and racists use the same ‘evidence’ to support their claims). Therefore the weak/mutated will often be left alone. So, Adam and Eve would have been literally the first two. Adam and Eve would be metaphorical as well since they do describe the creation of human beings and our over all meaning. What we are made for and what it is we should be doing. Not only that, but there is a huge metaphorical foreshadowing to human existence (snake biting at the ankles as we strike at the head). Now if you would like for me to continue, please ask and I’ll create an entire thread so we could focus on only how the Bible is both literal and Metaphorical. Otherwise lets move on.

The Bible does not need to give a descriptive example of how first humans had babies, just as we do not need to bother with it. The Good book does not work itself into a corner either. Yes, early humans (Adam and Eve) may have had sexual activities with family members (though this is greatly not important as it is not the focus. why; because it is not a puzzle piece for the entire picture. God still exists, God still created us, and God is still Love as well as a great source for morals). Guess what, even if Adam and Eve did not exist, early humans would have still had sex with family members to populate the earth. The reason is explained in above paragraph if you’d like to read it again. Other cultures (I mean besides Jewish) also supported such practices…however it is clearly stated that within the Bible that it should not be done…why? well if you went over past posts, lust is disorder of love…better yet it is the abuse to sexual desires and actions to which sex is. We have sex in order to populate the earth. In the start of the human race it would have been important in all scales for survival to populate. Which if you remember was God’s plan/order/etc. “Go forth and populate the Earth”. However once the population really got going and individuals were more than less expressing their lust rather, then we see this new direction/guide from God. simply stating, do not have sex with siblings. there are also several other statements of the similar that also refer to homosexuality. Now this is not just some guess work, but it is rather clear from the Prophets, that it was God’s intentions. I think it could be rather simple to say the importance in that form of sex was not needed any longer and create more problems than good. So you see it’s common sense really. The Bible does not Contradict it self.
 
Zatzat

Not at all. Regardless of the laws, permanent harm should not come to another person. Freedom from harm is a fundamental human right. I have the impression that you believe that without God, anything goes!

But that is the impression I have of your moral stance. Anything goes as long as it is between consenting adults. Didn’t you say a little while ago that sado-masochistic relationships between consenting adults are not disordered, and can even be more rewarding than normal relationships?

Also, in homosexual relationships, cannot permanent harm come from AIDS?

Seems to me the corner you are painting yourself into is getting smaller. Aren’t you already standing on one foot? 😃
Don’t forget about the mental stress and set backs from it…similar to any lust. If you act in the such a way it starts to affect you. this is best seen as lust develops a strain on any marriage and actually any relationship.

Lust is a pleasure button, and like any physical experience it drains the body. Your body begins to become numb to the experience and therefore you ‘need’ more and more like a drug. many martialists (or as some may say “martial artists”) still train their body like ancient warriors by numbing or destroying nerves to discontinue brain reception of pain. if you expose yourself to something for too long (like frost bite) you loose feelings. Same for sex, you will loose some of the feeling, however at the same time desire more and more. Therefore creating a situation with two individuals that are now thinking/feeling differently…conflict no?
 
Lust is a pleasure button,
God created us with the very pleasure button that you speak of.

Right back to my original argument, in that God could have designed us not to have that ’ pleasure button’, but God chose to make certain we’re susceptible to lust.

Then he condemns us for it. 🤷
 
Zatzat

*Last I checked, heterosexuals weren’t immune to HIV or any other std. *

I hope you’re not losing track of this discussion.

Of course heterosexuals are not immune from AIDS or any other std. But if they are in monogamous relationships, the kind God intended for them, why would they contract AIDS?

Some women get AIDS from sex with bisexual men, who have contracted it from their homosexual partners. The women then give it to heterosexual men if they are promiscuous. THey can even pass it on to other women and children if they are truly promiscuous.

Since this kind of conduct is normally between adults who are not consenting to be infected with AIDS, homosexual sex can be a source of violence committed against victims, either knowingly (if the person is vicious) or unknowingly.

This is not what God intended for any of us!
 
Of course heterosexuals are not immune from AIDS or any other std. But if they are in monogamous relationships, the kind God intended for them, why would they contract AIDS?
Monogamous married homosexuals, why would they contract HIV?
Some women get AIDS from sex with bisexual men, who have contracted it from their homosexual partners. The women then give it to heterosexual men if they are promiscuous. THey can even pass it on to other women and children if they are truly promiscuous.
It seems you blame everyone…except for heterosexual men, whom, in the above scenario, you seemingly paint as an innocent victim. :confused:
Since this kind of conduct is normally between adults who are not consenting to be infected with AIDS, homosexual sex can be a source of violence committed against victims, either knowingly (if the person is vicious) or unknowingly.
Last I checked, heterosexuals weren’t immune from HIV and other std’s.
 
Of course heterosexuals are not immune from AIDS or any other std. But if they are in monogamous relationships, the kind God intended for them, why would they contract AIDS?
In some parts of the world it could be unsterile medical instruments, it can be passed down from mother to fetus, from a bad blood transfusion (less likely now in the developed world), from rape, from being a current or former IV drug user.

HIV is a virus with well established routes of communication. Not all of them sexual.

It’s a communicable disease and should be treated as such.
 
Zatzat

Let me clarify:

God did not intend us to have AIDS.

Heterosexual men an women who are faithful monogamous married people are the most unlikely to contract AIDS. Homosexual men and women (especially if they are promiscuous) are the most likely to contract AIDS.

That is why, in answer to the question of this thread, God cares about whom we have sex with. That is why the God’s rules exist against adultery, fornication, prostitution, and homosexuality, which are the main routes by which all stds travel.

All factors considered, it is thought that well over one million gay and bisexual men have suffered an AIDS related death - with more than 300,000 of those deaths occurring in the United States.

Got it?

OraLabora

Drug use is another route to AIDS forbidden by God since it entails as well the reckless abuse and violence against our bodies and sometimes death.
 
That is why, in answer to the question of this thread, God cares about whom we have sex with. That is why the God’s rules exist against adultery, fornication, prostitution, and homosexuality, which are the main routes by which all stds travel.

Got it?
Yes, it sounds like if homosexuals all got married and remained monogamous, they’d have an extremely low risk of contracting HIV.
 
Yes, it sounds like if homosexuals all got married and remained monogamous, they’d have an extremely low risk of contracting HIV.

Don’t hold your breath for that to happen. 🤷

Most sexual activities carry a risk of transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) from gonorrhoea and herpes to hepatitis B and HIV. There is evidence that anal intercourse carries a higher transmission risk than almost any other sexual activity.

Therefore married and monogamous homosexuals still are at risk from anal sex. Same for heterosexuals.
 
Yes, it sounds like if homosexuals all got married and remained monogamous, they’d have an extremely low risk of contracting HIV.

Don’t hold your breath for that to happen. 🤷
I didn’t have to hold my breath for long. It’s happening in Canada.
 
*I didn’t have to hold my breath for long. It’s happening in Canada. *

Well, as someone else has pointed out, even if you solve the risks to physical health, psychological health and spirtitual health are still very much at risk. So is the fate of one’s immortal soul if we are to judge by the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Leave it behind and don’t look back.
 
Sexually relations between consenting adults is fine by me. The Nations that prohibit homosexual sex are either backwards or overtly religious.
Hold on…
First you are saying that when 2 adults do something consensual together they are morally right.
My response, disproving that was that I told you that there were 2 consenting adults one of which wanted to be eaten and one of which wanted to eat a person (and on the German news they showed their communication and it strongly hinted towards a fetish).

That one didn’t work so you try to get around it differently by saying that that was not in accordance to the laws of the land. So you attach morality to the legal status of the action.
That cannot be right so I pointed it out to you.

Guess you still didn’t agree. You are taking out your own argument by saying that. Either morality is dependent on whether it is a legal action or an illegal one (which would mean that the moral value of homosexuality changed in the US after 2003 and is different in states like Zimbabwe) or it is not dependent on those, but then your argument about cannibalism is disproved already as these people were consenting adults.
You come up with the idea that those states then are just having backwards laws (although you just attached morality to the law).

I saw that you also said that nobody can agree to bodily harm or death. In Belgium people can do that. Under certain circumstances they can commit suicide with the help of a doctor. They need to be an adult with a condition that is lethal and where the pain cannot be alleviated and they have to have a long medical history in country and they need to make several requests that are then reviewed by a commission and need to be agreed to by two doctors. Then voluntary euthanasia is legal for them. They just asked and agreed to be killed. Does that make it morally right to kill somebody who asks for it?
Voluntary euthanasia is also legal in Colombia, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

That takes out the argument about the bodily harm too… So what do you have?
 
Voluntary euthanasia is also legal in Colombia, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

That takes out the argument about the bodily harm too… So what do you have?
The conversation was solely about sexual relations. How you love to apply my position to death and cannibalism. Are you the same poster who tried to take this thread to the subject of abortion?

You seem to think that without God, man would live in a moral vacuum. Sorry to dissapoint you, but we don’t need God to govern ourselves accordingly.

You may need God to be good, but not everyone needs a God to be good.
 
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