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Zatzat
Guest
Like the heterosexuals, yes, quite right.
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Janet1983
Guest
Now that we have gone through quite a few arguments back and forth showing that the logic you use is fallible, you tell me that I am off topic? Way to go.
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Janet1983
Guest
I am not trying to take anything anywhere. I react to arguments and logical fallacies. I can’t recall something like that. The only time that I came upon that topic was in a thread about the topic as far as I remember…
I am not going off-topic by showing other examples that prove your logic in this case wrong.
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Zatzat
Guest
Thank you.
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Zatzat
Guest
I say;
An adult is free to choose a sexual partner, so long as both parties consent to the activity and no laws are broken.
A pretty good moral barometer if I do say so myself.
Others say;
My supernatural God and my Church dictates the rules of sexual conduct.
That’s a moral barometer that makes me nervous. An invisible supernatural being and a few powerful men calling the shots…
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OraLabora
Guest
More like the lowest common denominator, always a risky foundation on which to build a moral life. And in fact quite a risky behavior simply from the point of view of personal safety.
On the other hand, what bad thing would happen to you if you managed to apply it to your life?Others say;
My supernatural God and my Church dictates the rules of sexual conduct.
That’s a moral barometer that makes me nervous. An invisible supernatural being and a few powerful men calling the shots…
It seems to me if one wants to make moral progress in life, one should strive to rise above the crowd, not lower oneself to its basest elements.
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mark_a
Guest
Not if they’re following Church teaching.
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Zatzat
Guest
I’d be living a lie.
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NEWCATHOLICJEFF
Guest
As the original question was Why would God care who we have sex with? I think looking at:
Matt 19:5-6, Mark 10:7-12, Eph 5:22-32, Heb 13:4 these pretty much tell you who god wants you to have sex with. Mark 10:11-12 tells you why. You can find all of the answers you could want for this question in the CCC 1638-1654
I agree with you…
Man would not live in a moral vacuum the CCC 1954-1960 points that out, although you would at least have to agree that a Natural Moral Law exists?In order to consider these passages. If you do not agree that Natural Law exists then I do not know by what bench mark you would set for any Moral code? It could be all over the place and could be very hard to distinguish from what we would define as evil. Killing, the infirm, deformed, different, unwanted. Shoot we could define men as property or group them with animals, even set morals by birth right.The Nazi’s tried to hide at Nuremberg behinds Civil laws, which allowed for the legal killing of millions, yet they were convicted using the premise of Natural Law, which I find odd, because if you buy into Natural Moral law then picking and choosing means it is no law…nothing to convict on. Then again this whole question presupposes that some inference of a God must exist or why ask a question? The only reason any of this applies to the question posed is because it relates to religion within the context of sex. Do you need any religion? Likely as much as man needs sex…certainly man always asks why… what is the purpose. In nature their always seems to be a reason, even if current understanding of questions and current answers are incomplete. So what is the reason if not for a greater purpose? Science cannot answer the why…which goes back to the question…what about Love in the image of God and his Natural Moral law. If you have not read Humanae Vitae you might want to as it gives a very accurate claim by Pope Paul VI on the future, and we are living it today… He was ridiculed in his day, but he certainly got it right.
Actually invincible ignorance is discussed in the CCC 847 and those that have it might possible go to heaven, or at least the Church will not say they are damned. That being said they would have to live the Moral Law of Jesus, not likely Carthaginians worshiping Baal, although even here the RCC, to my knowledge has never claimed anyone is in hell except Satan and his minions.
If your purpose is to just argue and defend without looking then you will likely be closed to any of this, which makes me wonder why even ask the question…unless you are just trying to pass time…I guess it is better then playing tidily winks…
Take care…
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ManOnFire
Guest
The brain craves pleasure. The more you feed it, the more it wants. It can be fed by sex, drugs, food, gambling, materialism, etc. or holiness. Love is ultimately all about what’s in the heart and soul, not the physical pleasure.
If one chooses a life of selfish indulgence of the basic instincts, one will walk around like a person with a teaspoon and a sugar bowl: dipping the teaspoon into the sugar bowl frequently, taking a sweet lick that doesn’t last, constantly searching for the next temporary high via sex, drugs, materialism, extreme vanity, gambling, food, pursuit of trying to invent something artificially different for the few seconds of shallow amusement it provides, to no long term satisfaction. Once the temporary high wears off, the search for the next high continues indefinitely.
If one chooses to give one’s life to the Church’s way of sacrificial, true love for spouse and kids, one can experience the True love that makes one’s heart sing and will rock you to the depths of your bones. Deep, romantic, sacrificial, True Love via God’s Covenant for man and woman is The Way, The Truth, and The Life that BOTH of you will eventually need to commit to if you desire long term success.
EVERYONE needs to make a choice of which of the 2 lifestyles to PRIMARILY pursue. There’s no other way. Pop culture is a giant wedge that will force passionate people to decide, one path or the other. The Soul can be free and made clean again through Reconciliation. Forgive self and each other. We are only human. Forget the past. This is the chance for a new beginning. That’s what I love most about the Catholic Church: the Soul can be free and clean and new if you forgive and are forgiven. True Love is always possible for anyone with a clean soul, regardless of the past. If being influenced by pop culture causes sin, then it is our duty to minimize it’s influence on our lives by DECREASING our exposure to it.
Imagine if you actually really nailed 25 of the hottest women that you could possibly conjure up, every which way imaginable. Then what would you do next? What can you do for an encore? Nothing. You would have scratched that itch. You’d be bored in knowing that you can’t top yourself with that current set of values and priorities. There’s no future in it. THAT’S when you look to the depth of the Church for Soul food and the Way to Live!
If one chooses a life of selfish indulgence of the basic instincts, one will walk around like a person with a teaspoon and a sugar bowl: dipping the teaspoon into the sugar bowl frequently, taking a sweet lick that doesn’t last, constantly searching for the next temporary high via sex, drugs, materialism, extreme vanity, gambling, food, pursuit of trying to invent something artificially different for the few seconds of shallow amusement it provides, to no long term satisfaction. Once the temporary high wears off, the search for the next high continues indefinitely.
If one chooses to give one’s life to the Church’s way of sacrificial, true love for spouse and kids, one can experience the True love that makes one’s heart sing and will rock you to the depths of your bones. Deep, romantic, sacrificial, True Love via God’s Covenant for man and woman is The Way, The Truth, and The Life that BOTH of you will eventually need to commit to if you desire long term success.
EVERYONE needs to make a choice of which of the 2 lifestyles to PRIMARILY pursue. There’s no other way. Pop culture is a giant wedge that will force passionate people to decide, one path or the other. The Soul can be free and made clean again through Reconciliation. Forgive self and each other. We are only human. Forget the past. This is the chance for a new beginning. That’s what I love most about the Catholic Church: the Soul can be free and clean and new if you forgive and are forgiven. True Love is always possible for anyone with a clean soul, regardless of the past. If being influenced by pop culture causes sin, then it is our duty to minimize it’s influence on our lives by DECREASING our exposure to it.
Imagine if you actually really nailed 25 of the hottest women that you could possibly conjure up, every which way imaginable. Then what would you do next? What can you do for an encore? Nothing. You would have scratched that itch. You’d be bored in knowing that you can’t top yourself with that current set of values and priorities. There’s no future in it. THAT’S when you look to the depth of the Church for Soul food and the Way to Live!
C
Charlemagne_II
Guest
Zatzat
*You may need God to be good, but not everyone needs a God to be good. *
But if there is a God, you certainly do need God to be good. I suggest some atheists who are homosexual or who suffer some other perversion will say there is no God because they don’t want God to get in the way of their perversion.
Is it your impression that this thread is dedicated solely to the discussion of homosexual matters? Go back and read the first post.
Sexual matters are inevitably impinged on sooner or later by the question of abortion. Because of sexual promiscuity, millions of abortions have been had. Was the child aborted an adult and did the child give his/her consent to be butchered in the womb?
God wants neither promiscuity nor the millions of abortions promiscuity leads to. That why the sexual laws were given to us. They were not invented by an imaginary god and his powerful minions, as you seem to think.
*You may need God to be good, but not everyone needs a God to be good. *
But if there is a God, you certainly do need God to be good. I suggest some atheists who are homosexual or who suffer some other perversion will say there is no God because they don’t want God to get in the way of their perversion.
Is it your impression that this thread is dedicated solely to the discussion of homosexual matters? Go back and read the first post.
Sexual matters are inevitably impinged on sooner or later by the question of abortion. Because of sexual promiscuity, millions of abortions have been had. Was the child aborted an adult and did the child give his/her consent to be butchered in the womb?
God wants neither promiscuity nor the millions of abortions promiscuity leads to. That why the sexual laws were given to us. They were not invented by an imaginary god and his powerful minions, as you seem to think.
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mangy_dog
Guest
The merits of a holy life to love and serve the Lord and be a witness onto others does not come about by isolation but by the denial of what is wrong and evil for what is right and good.
It is not God’s fault that we are lustful and greedy - it is our fault that we abuse the freedom and liberty to choose, that God gave us in our nature.
In the face of temptation we either act heroically or we give in to the wrong or the evil. Grace is at work in the one and concupiscience is a work in the latter.
Everything God created in the natural order was created good. We are the ones that have brought about the possibilities of corrupting and twisting what God has created good.
And to follow your utopian scenario, if lust and fornication were none existent…we would find some other damning sin to abuse and alienate our lives from God’s moral order.
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da_nolo
Guest
God designed us in a way to experience physically, but we did not understand it. it was not until after sin entered the world that we were able to abuse our physical making. sin is basically our actions, acting away from God/without God. what ‘pleasures’ us is all different as well, if we were all made to sin (if that is your idea) then we would all be active in the same things, however is is predominately different. He created us to act within the means.God created us with the very pleasure button that you speak of.
Right back to my original argument, in that God could have designed us not to have that ’ pleasure button’, but God chose to make certain we’re susceptible to lust.
Then he condemns us for it.
He did not make us so we would lust, again that is an indifference to God which is opposite to love. we were made to Love therefore he condemns what breaks our union with God as well as with other humans, not something he established to let us grow. lust, again, restricts our behaviors, our actions, our ability…which is opposite to what God desires and opposite to the importance of each and everyone of us = growth.
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da_nolo
Guest
That actually has been the message for past few years. However, it is largely refused because well, they are not allowed to be married in the Church. Therefore they say screw you and do what ever they want.
plus a history on AIDs, it developed in the gay community within the U.S. else where I don’t know, I didn’t look for this information I had to watch a film on it.
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Zatzat
Guest
Some continue to believe in Jesus and some get married in protestant Churches.
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Zatzat
Guest
I suggest that there are believers who masturbate, engage in fellatio and have sexual relations with their spouse while using artificial birth control. We’ll never know about them, as they practice their sins in secret.
The difference between their sin and an open homosexual, is that their sin is secretly hidden behind closed doors.
Is a Christian who occasionally masturbates, are they suffering from a perversion as well? Does the Catholic laity start internet threads condemning their perverse actions?
The difference? Their sins are secret and behind closed doors.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Zatzat
I suggest that there are believers who masturbate, engage in fellatio and have sexual relations with their spouse while using artificial birth control. We’ll never know about them, as they practice their sins in secret.
We are all sinners, and most of our sins are in secret. The Catholics who do these things do not deny God as an excuse to do them. Moreover, if they are true Catholics, they confess their failings and try to do better.
People who have no need for God have no need to confess and no need to do better. Also, they are more likely to practice their sins in public, as they regard such conduct as natural and not shameful. It is a great stain on our civilization that the sense of sin has diminished to the point that religious people are openly mocked while pornographic entertainers can count on being rich and famous.
The stench of sin is great in America. And everywhere God is mocked.
I suggest that there are believers who masturbate, engage in fellatio and have sexual relations with their spouse while using artificial birth control. We’ll never know about them, as they practice their sins in secret.
We are all sinners, and most of our sins are in secret. The Catholics who do these things do not deny God as an excuse to do them. Moreover, if they are true Catholics, they confess their failings and try to do better.
People who have no need for God have no need to confess and no need to do better. Also, they are more likely to practice their sins in public, as they regard such conduct as natural and not shameful. It is a great stain on our civilization that the sense of sin has diminished to the point that religious people are openly mocked while pornographic entertainers can count on being rich and famous.
The stench of sin is great in America. And everywhere God is mocked.
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Zatzat
Guest
The fact of the matter is that many people don’t share your subjective religious views. Many Christians accept homosexual sex as being sinless and many homosexuals freely marry in Christian Church’s.
These people have not rejected God, but embrace and worship him. Despite one segment of Christianity being certain that their sexual relations sinful, they’re certain that their actions aren’t sinful.
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PaulinVA
Guest
What you say is true, for the present day.
However, if you take every Christian in the past 2000 years, those that believe the one can worship God and engage in homosexual sex don’t even register.
These people have rejected the God of the ages for their own god that they have modified to fit their lifestyle.
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mangy_dog
Guest
You mean, practicing to fornicate? Preparing themselves mentally for the potential fantasy scenario?
Or just weakening the moral guard, little by little until attaining physical pleasure becomes accepted as “unavoidable” or irresistible.
Then we can defend our “lifestyle” by saying things like, " it’s human nature" “God created sex, why should I abstain before marriage?”
And a myriad of other self-seeking excuses.
A life of pleasure and carnality as opposed to a life of prayer and of the spirit.
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