Why would God create people he knew would go to hell?

  • Thread starter Thread starter adrian1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
mkoopman said:
How do you now propose Jesus at Gethsemane is relevant to Jesus who sits at the right hand when the past is already eaten by langoliers.
Click to expand...
Simple. I deny that the past was eaten by langoliers. Take for example, the past history of the universe 5 or 6 billion years ago. At that time there was no life and so I don’t see how langoliers could have eaten anything.
 
Yeah, but God already knew, right? So. . . not only is it a fact now, looking back, it was a fact then, too-- you just didn’t know that.
 
Yes, indeed, as time does not exist to Him, so all of this has already happened and we have all already chosen our choices. But to us, we have not yet.
 
Kei said:
we have all already chosen our choices.
Click to expand...
If so, then we have no alternative now. If there are no alternatives, then there is no free choice.
Further, we did not live 3000 years ago, so what was chosen then was not our choice but that of someone else.
 
You are correct in that after we choose a choice, you cannot go back and choose a different one.
In a sense, we did not exist 3000 years from now. But, if there is a timeless being, then in a sense, we did in fact exist and choose 3000 years from now.
The alternatives are already presented and chosen.
 
If many thousands of years ago in the past, the alternatives were already presented, and our choices were made, then in the here and now, there is no possibility of our making a free choice.
 
No, you still live in the here and now. It is only in the sense that time does not exist to a timeless entity, that we already made them. To us, it is not made. However, in that sense, then yes, we have already made the choice.
 
God is the one who allows for your free will. And free will relates to the acceptance or rejection of the grace He freely gives. Is all creation bound to God’s design? Of course it is, but this does not mean you do not freely choose to accept or reject His love. How is His knowing your choice because He is God denying your choice that He allows you to freely choose?
He gives us free will out of a respect for our person that we do not deserve in His infinite love, justice and mercy. Stating that God gifted me with free will but knows how I will choose so it is not free will is simply lame. God is God if you have free will or not, so get over yourself and your attempt to blame Him for making you and allow Him to love you.
Yes it sounds easy but no it is not so easy.
 
This reminds me of a quote from The Unbearable Lightness of Being:
“There is no means of testing which decision is better, because there is no basis for comparison. We live everything as it comes, without warning, like an actor going on cold. And what can life be worth if the first rehearsal for life is life itself? That is why life is always like a sketch. No, “sketch” is not quite a word, because a sketch is an outline of something, the groundwork for a picture, whereas the sketch that is our life is a sketch for nothing, an outline with no picture.”
― Milan Kundera
 
My main problem with God isn’t that He creates people with foreknowledge of their damnation, but rather, that He does very little to save them. While Christians may attempt evangelizing the masses, sometimes people need a little more than a dude walking around saying “Jesus is Lord”, and God hardly delivers. Sure, some people get near-death experiences, but they are a very magnified minority. Oftentimes God Himself doesn’t come to convert the damned for whatever reason, and would instead leave them to “their own will” completely free from even as much as a Divine whisper as to what to do. Some may argue that God appears in apparitions, but 99% of those are given to people who are already in God’s grace, or at the very least, pious. Christ said that He didn’t come for the righteous, but the sinners (Luke 5:32/Mark 2:17), yet His most recent actions contradict this.

Then people have the nerves to say “They choose hell”. If you drop your baby off with a group of thugs, it’s only natural that they’ll become a thug.
 
benjamin1973 said:
Yeah, but God already knew, right? So. . . not only is it a fact now, looking back, it was a fact then, too-- you just didn’t know that.
Click to expand...
No. God’s knowledge isn’t “now” or “then”; it is eternal. So, you’re improperly extrapolating the “when” of God’s knowledge, as if it exists within time. It doesn’t. (And therefore, it does not impinge on actions which are in time.)
 
Life is more like improv. Sadly many people aren’t good at improv, but we can plan ahead a bit of the time and have our own little sketches usually for the big decisions–but when it’s time to go in front of the audience, it’s time to go.
 
This argument presupposes existence. It depends on that to deny existence. Which in turn denies the human race to be what it is.

Imagine, you are a race of people that are all destined to fulfill the purpose of life. Life in eternity.
Because God didn’t create any one who would not do that. Not that who you are as a people wouldn’t do that, because you are. It’s just that God didn’t let the ones who wouldn’t do that exist. This is far different than a race of people who’s first parents didn’t commit original sin. Not a race that isn’t fallen. This is a race who doesn’t know who they really are because their existence is preconditioned.on whether or not they would receive God’s Mercy and be saved. At best a people who sinless because God didn’t allow sinners to exist. God created everyone whether or not they go to hell because He is not a liar. He wouldn’t hide the truth of who we are from us
 
Last edited:
Yeah, it takes quite the spin to get out of this one, I think. Either my future has multiple possible outcomes, or God knows the single outcome. If God is timeless and all-powerful, then the latter must be true.

If God can’t see my future, God is not all-powerful. If he CAN see my future, and that future is immalleable, then free choice is an illusion.
 
benjamin1973 said:
Yeah, it takes quite the spin to get out of this one, I think. Either my future has multiple possible outcomes, or God knows the single outcome. If God is timeless and all-powerful, then the latter must be true.

If God can’t see my future, God is not all-powerful. If he CAN see my future, and that future is immalleable, then free choice is an illusion.
Click to expand...
It is called predestination, but not predetermination. God allows for free will choice but knows what will be chosen. That knowledge does not limit the persons free will.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top