Why would you NOT want to be Anglican?

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As above, just wanted to know why not?

:signofcross: Peace and love :signofcross

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That would depend on what sort of Anglcan is meant. There are types of Anglicans compared to which being a Pastarfarian would be more desireable.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
Rita - Peace be with you. 🙂

Rita, I agree with you about some ahem! of the comments on this thread. :o

Some folks are trying to be cute – like the comment about Bp. Spong (which I thought was hilarious) – alas, sometimes it comes across in a very bad way. In such cases I apologize to you on behalf of the Church (uh, Catholic Church). 😉 We have our own Bp. Spongs – sadly.

For me – I would rather be Catholic. Why? Because as one poster alluded – it is the fullness of Truth in Jesus Christ. This is **not **saying the Anglican Church does not have *any *truth. On the contrary, the Catholic Church does indeed teach that those ecclesial communities which arose from the reformation **do have **some of that Truth. (See the Catechism of the Catholic Church #823, right in there)

Now, having said all of that – let’s go to liturgy.

There are *many *Anglicans who have such a hard time leaving their Church for the fullness of Truth because of bad worship in the Catholic Church (let’s not pussyfoot around here – take one look at the liturgy thread and you will see that we have some work to do in this dept. – and Benedict is making fine strides correcting the problems). Certainly, this is not saying that there are bad liturgies in the Anglican Church – it is there as well.

However, I really feel for those high church Anglicans who worship the Lord in such devout and reverent ways. It is a tough - tough call which I would not want to make if I were a life-long Anglican worshiping in such wonderful ways.

Ultimately though it comes down to the Truth and correct Holy Orders (you might want to check out Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Apostalicae Curae[sp] about the validity of Anglican Holy Orders).

Peace to you Rita! 🙂
The spelling is correct. But technically, it was a Bull. Or an Apostolic Letter

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
Honestly…I do not see how anyone…ever, could be duped into becoming Anglican…and I don’t understand how those raised Anglican do not convert to Catholicism…The whole existence of Anglicanism/Episcopalians is rooted in a Syphyllis infested, sex craved, self serving, hedonistic, overweight, control freak known as Henry VIII…a man once known as the Fidei Defensor, who quickly abandoned the Pope and the Church when he was not released from his sacramental vows to his wife. Why would anyone on God’s green earth follow such an obviously man made religion when they know the whole story.
Um, to the contrary, Anglicanism existed in the British Isles since Joseph of Arimethea brought it there.

King Henry merely separated it’s bishops from the Pope’s authority, that’s all.

He didn’t invent it.
 
Ultimately though it comes down to the Truth and correct Holy Orders (you might want to check out Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Apostalicae Curae[sp] about the validity of Anglican Holy Orders).

Peace to you Rita! 🙂
Um, actually, Apostolicae Curae wasn’t ex-cathedra, so it isn’t infallible.

And besides, it merely stated that the status of the Anglican Orders was unsure (not necessarily invalid) and therefore they are not recognized by Rome.

I would say that the Anglican orders are valid, but polluted, due to ordinations of women bishops.
 
This has got to be one of the sillier questions ever posed on this forum. Why would I not want to be Anglican? Well, its not Catholic for one, it is entirely man made for another and was founded for the some of the basest and quite frankly almost obscene reasons I can think of.

The real question should be why would anybody want to be Anglican.
Um, actually, it was founded in the British Isles by Joseph of Arimethea, and King Henry merely separated it’s bishops from the Pope.

It has existed since early Christian times.

Henry just separated it from the Authority of Rome.
 
Um, actually, it was founded in the British Isles by Joseph of Arimethea, and King Henry merely separated it’s bishops from the Pope.

It has existed since early Christian times.

Henry just separated it from the Authority of Rome.
In other words - up until then, they were actually Catholic. 😉
 
In other words - up until then, they were actually Catholic. 😉
It’s still Catholic (at least the part of it which maintains apostolic succession, the Real Presence, and doesn’t ordain women “bishops”).

Up until that point it was Roman Catholic. 😉
 
Um, actually, Apostolicae Curae wasn’t ex-cathedra, so it isn’t infallible.

And besides, it merely stated that the status of the Anglican Orders was unsure (not necessarily invalid) and therefore they are not recognized by Rome.

I would say that the Anglican orders are valid, but polluted, due to ordinations of women bishops.
Not so, Met.

Like Hank and his problems, *Apostolicae Curae * and its sad history is one of my hobbies.

It is true that AC is not ex cathedra. But it does fall under the category which must be affirmed by all RCs,* de fide*, and I always remind them of that, when discussing it. Then Cardinal Ratzinger reminded them of it, too, a few years ago.

And it did indeed judge Anglican orders to be invalid, based on an interaction of a defect of form, in the Edwardine Ordinal of the day, and a supposed defect of intent on the part of the consecrators of Archbishop Parker, in 1559. The defects, for technical reasons, must be considered together. Given that Anglicans also recognise the requirement for valid form, matter, intent, and minister, in a sacrament, the logic can easily be followed. The conclusion, however, need not be accepted (by those not RC), for reasons too complex to handle in a fast email. See Fr. J. J. Hughes STEWARDS OF THE LORD.

It, like lots of history, is complicated. Very complicated.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
It only exists because a terrible, horrible, murderous man wanted a divorce. In the best possible light, its a fence for fence sitters between protestantism and Catholicism. I was raised Anglican, then stopped practicing any faith for a long time.

But then why sit on the fence, when you realize protestantism is historically preposterous. They just started making stuff up.
No, like many others of the day, he needed a decree of nullity for dynastic reasons. It happened lliterally all the time. But not to the aunt of the Holy Roman Emperor.

GKC
 
Not so, Met.

Like Hank and his problems, *Apostolicae Curae * and its sad history is one of my hobbies.
Yeah… You probably do know more about this issue than me, GKC.
It is true that AC is not ex cathedra. But it does fall under the category which must be affirmed by all RCs,* de fide*, and I always remind them of that, when discussing it. Then Cardinal Ratzinger reminded them of it, too, a few years ago.
Why is it considered De Fide for Roman Christians?
And it did indeed judge Anglican orders to be invalid, based on an interaction of a defect of form, in the Edwardine Ordinal of the day, and a supposed defect of intent on the part of the consecrators of Archbishop Parker, in 1559…
Yes, but that does not take into account the massive re-ordering of Anglican clergy by Old Catholic bishops, right?
 
Yeah… You probably do know more about this issue than me, GKC.
I

Why is it considered De Fide for Roman Christians?
It is part of the ordinary magisterium. A doctrine need not be
*ex cathedra *to be required to be assented to.

Yes, but that does not take into account the massive re-ordering of Anglican clergy by Old Catholic bishops, right?

No, since the joint consecration between Anglicans and OCs begun in 1932, and between Anglicans and the PNCC, in 1946, were years in the future.

And there is no definitive statement from Rome on whether such joint consecrations would be recognised as conveying, at most, valid but illicit orders. The logic, of course, is that they would be so recognised, (except in all to many recent cases where the matter {female} is in itself invalid) but you will find more than one opinion on it. A RC layman, the most knowledgeable person I know on AC, thinks it is a *prima facie *case for Anglican orders being at least valid, if not licit. This would be supported by those few cases in which an Anglican priest who covnverts was ordained sub conditione, not absolutely, the sacrament of orders, like that of baptism, conveying an indelible mark and hence being unrepeatable.

History is complicated

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
…The logic, of course, is that they would be so recognised, (except in all to many recent cases where the matter {female} is in itself invalid) but you will find more than one opinion on it…

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
Yeah, but even if there were ordinations by a woman “bishop”, there are usually two other consecrators, so wouldn’t that still ensure continuance of Apostolic Succession, so long as those other two are properly ordained male bishops?

Or if the Prime consecrator is a female, does that invalidate the entire consecration?
 
Yeah, but even if there were ordinations by a woman “bishop”, there are usually two other consecrators, so wouldn’t that still ensure continuance of Apostolic Succession, so long as those other two are properly ordained male bishops?

Or if the Prime consecrator is a female, does that invalidate the entire consecration?
You stretch my knowledge here, but AFAIK, one non-bishop would not invalidate a consecration. But it does open the door to the issue of intent; whether it is certain that the intent of the act is valid, that is *facere quod facit ecclesia *. It least, it seems so to me.

GKC
 
You stretch my knowledge here, but AFAIK, one non-bishop would not invalidate a consecration. But it does open to door to the issue of intent; whether it is certain that the intent of the act is valid, that is *facere quod facit ecclesia *. It least, it seems so to me.

GKC
Sorry, GKC, I was just wondering your take on it all.
 
I am no longer Anglican because of the openly gay bishops and the great differences in belief on various things between conservative and liberal Anglicans/Episcopalians. I LOVE the Anglican church service; out of all the church services I have been to it is my favorite. If they didn’t have such huge internal problems I would definitely be Anglican.

(I am not Catholic.)
 
…and their Latin to English translations, in the “High” variant are better. I always kind of do an internal laugh when I hear “speak the word only and I shall be healed”…
Actually, that’s how it’s said in the Spanish Catholic Mass too: “una palabra Tuya bastara para sanarme.”
 
Lol, please don’t take offence to my question… I am just interested on hearing different opinions on different faiths!
I did not take offense, I hope you haven’t I assumed you were after an honest answer so I gave it. sorry I can’t change English history to fit your notions.
 
I did not take offense, I hope you haven’t I assumed you were after an honest answer so I gave it. sorry I can’t change English history to fit your notions.
Nope. You have to take history as she happened.

Have to study it, too.

GKC
 
I am no longer Anglican because of the openly gay bishops and the great differences in belief on various things between conservative and liberal Anglicans/Episcopalians. I LOVE the Anglican church service; out of all the church services I have been to it is my favorite. If they didn’t have such huge internal problems I would definitely be Anglican.

(I am not Catholic.)
There’s always traditional Continuing Anglicans, or CANA…

What’s a Foursquare service like…? I thought it was a popular school game? 🤷
 
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