M
mark_a
Guest
Because the reformed group thinks Anglicans are too Catholic and the Catholics think they are too protestant.As above, just wanted to know why not?
Peace and love :signofcross
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Status
G
GKC
Guest
I have no idea.
But you’re right. Official Anglicanism is a mess these days.
GKC
G
GKC
Guest
World-wide?
Nobody.
The titular head of the 38 self-governing Anglican jurisdictions that make up the official Anglican Communion is the Archbishop of Canturbury. Which is meaningless, in the sense I thnk you asked.
Each Anglican jurisdiction (the Episcopal Church in the US, for example) that belongs to the Communion is totally independent. For that matter, each diocese that makes up each Anglican Church is relatively independent, of its national group. And then there are the Anglicans, such as myself, who are not in communion with Canterbury, hence, not in the offical Anglican Communion. And lots of other things.
Messy.
GKC
G
GKC
Guest
J
jfallaw
Guest
because i refuse to bow to any tyrant. When the king of england selfishly wrested the Keys from the hands of the Apostles, he certainly didn’t gain the respect of many people outside of his tiny island. the people of GB are used to bowing to someone just because they were born in a particular family, though, so it wasn’t much of a change for them.
N
nsper7
Guest
As a person who is going to swim the Thames soon, perhaps the better question would be why would I want to be Anglican? Although I admit I find their history fascinating and agree with the XXXIX Articles, it was the liturgy that hooked me.
I remember when I first went to an Anglican Church (it was actually a church that had left the Episcopal Church and was affiliated with the Anglican Church of Kenya) and it came time for communion. At every other church I had attended, communion was kind of impersonal. You either went up and tore off a piece of pita bread and dipped it in grape juice or they passed around plates with teeny-tiny crackers (like a few millimeters squared in size) and teeny-tiny cups of grape juice.
At the Anglican Church, I remember going up to the altar and kneeling at the rail and the priests and vestry people walking. They’d hande you the piece of bread (or the wafer; lately, at the Episcopal Church I attend, they use the traditional wafers) and tell you vocally, “This is the body of Christ given for you.” Then someone would bring the goblet of wine and say, “This is the blood of Christ, the Cup of Salvation,” and then the person sips from it. From that point on, I was pretty much hooked.
NOTE: I am not trying to bash how other group’s do communion, I just find the Anglican rite more meaningful and filling (a pun sort of intended).
I remember when I first went to an Anglican Church (it was actually a church that had left the Episcopal Church and was affiliated with the Anglican Church of Kenya) and it came time for communion. At every other church I had attended, communion was kind of impersonal. You either went up and tore off a piece of pita bread and dipped it in grape juice or they passed around plates with teeny-tiny crackers (like a few millimeters squared in size) and teeny-tiny cups of grape juice.
At the Anglican Church, I remember going up to the altar and kneeling at the rail and the priests and vestry people walking. They’d hande you the piece of bread (or the wafer; lately, at the Episcopal Church I attend, they use the traditional wafers) and tell you vocally, “This is the body of Christ given for you.” Then someone would bring the goblet of wine and say, “This is the blood of Christ, the Cup of Salvation,” and then the person sips from it. From that point on, I was pretty much hooked.
NOTE: I am not trying to bash how other group’s do communion, I just find the Anglican rite more meaningful and filling (a pun sort of intended).
M
markadm
Guest
I never said they were less sincere or less devout.
Just to explain: the understanding of Communion (as both the Eucharist, the liturgical action, and the Church itself) is key to all of this. There cannot be unity without a common position.
I am not trying to be “hardline”, just frank and honest.
V
valient_Lucy
Guest
Wow, a man with floors! I wish I had floors.
jk.I’m sorry if you feel that people aren’t being civil (haven’t read the whole forum so I can’t speak to that.)
As for me, never really considered it, mainly because I do not feel that a secular political figure should be in charge of the church. My American “separation of church and state” education makes me feel uncomfortable about that.
But also practically speaking, never attended the Anglican church, never fell in love with it.
C
Claudius
Guest
I can appreciate your love of the Eucharist. The Eucharist is indeed the central point of true Christain faith. With that said, I must point out to you that the Anglican Church does not actually have a valid Eucharist. There was some dicussion here a little earlier that this situation may have changed but for the time being you should not risk it at all. You should go to a church that has valid Eucharist. This would usually mean the Catholic Church but there are some non Catholic Churches with valid Communion. Once you understand the apsolute necessity of the Eucharist, then all the other points of being a Christian fall into line and they all eventually lead to Rome. I urge you and encourage you to find out just a little more and come to the Catholic Church where every truth of Christianity has been safeguarded and protected since they were given to us by Jesus.
C
Claudius
Guest
This may seem like the case, especially in the U.S. but really it is not the case at all. The Church is growing a lot, and converts make up a very large percentage. The Church is getting the teachings to the poeople, and people are begining to be intellectually honest and see that the Catholic Church is the ONLY church founded by Jesus and is the one that Jesus himself wants you to be part of. The Catholic Church is getting far more convets coming in then bad Catholics going out. We are getting converts from protestants go are getting educated finally to muslims who have come to see the message of Muhamed for what it really is to pagans and athiest who are comming to know the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob for the first time. This is not even to mention the large number of Jewish converts that come into the Church every year in Israel to the point now tha the Catholic Church in Israel has Jewish holidays on its Church calendar again.
You can quote a myth or your own personal hope that the Catholic Church is getting smaller if you want to but that does not make it a fact. Reality tells us what the real facts are.
C
Claudius
Guest
You were never a Catholic. I can tell. If you were a Catholic then you would have been a good Catholic and stayed. No one is saying that sexual abuse is part of the Church because it is not. You are a hypocrite and an anti-Catholic bigot for even bringing something like that into this discussion because it doesn’t belong here. Go start a thread about it somewhere else if you want to talk about it. On top of that, the only people with a legitimate reason to be upset about the sexual abuse scandal are CATHOLICS. Protestants have a far, FAR, FAR and away worse record of sexual misconduct including Child abuse, rape, sexual slavery and all manner of fith and pornography that I can not even begin to describe. Outside of the protestant world, in the athiest world, things get even worse. The two deadliest places for a child in America are in the Womb or a PUBLIC SCHOOL.
SO yes, the HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH IS PERFECT, because JESUS wants it that way.
Go spout your hate dribble somewhere else.
G
GKC
Guest
That is true, re: perhaps the situation has changed. But the other part of the disucssion is that Anglicans do not recognise the “validity” of Apostolicae Curae, as binding on anyone outide the RCC. IOW, Anglicans will say (exceptions noted) that Anglicans possess a valid priesthood, and valid sacraments.
GKC
M
mikew262
Guest
You need to keep up with the news. Read this recent study that was just completed. While all denominations are having problems, the Catholic Church is being hit the hardest.
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332590,00.html
BTW, I have no hope for the Church to get smaller, in fact it is sad my Church is only about 40-50% full for Sunday mass. Wake up, the Church is shrinking, at least in this country.
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
You mean how said king, who was studying for the priesthood, was forced into marrying his brother’s widow, she swearing the marriage was never consumated the years they were married, and said king was seeking to have a son as heir so the country would not be plunged back into decades of civil war as it had just emerged?
Definitely not like that saint Pope Clement Medici, conceived a bastard (his father assinated in the plot immortalized in “Hannibal”), legitimized after his father’s death by a legal loophole, given a cardinal’s hat by his cousin Pope Leo X, Clement serving to look over the Medici family interests as archbishop of Florence, played the willy diplomat when elected pope, ending in the sack of Rome, and his virtual imprisonment by the emperor Charles V, Catherine’s uncle and the real reason for the denial of the annulment? Oh, and by the way, he fathered a son, Alessandro, by the black serving girl.
Really, the demonization of Henry does Rome’s cause no service.
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
So of course you are uncomfortable with Rome, headed as it is by a head of state since the founding of the papal states.Wow, a man with floors! I wish I had floors.
I’m sorry if you feel that people aren’t being civil (haven’t read the whole forum so I can’t speak to that.)
As for me, never really considered it, mainly because I do not feel that a secular political figure should be in charge of the church. My American “separation of church and state” education makes me feel uncomfortable about that. .
M
mikew262
Guest
Talk about spewing hatred, you really have issues with folks who may have left the Church for one reason or another, huh? Other Christian denominations are full of ex-Catholics who tried for years to be faithful to the Catholic Church, but just could not make a connection with God. Now they are happy with their chosen way of worship. I’m happy for them. To say they were never Catholic is just ridiculous.
Instead of being so critical of them why not be thankful that still have a faith in Christ, and have not fallen into atheism or something similar. Pray for them to return to the Church if you must. Many Catholics did leave the Church because of the sexual scandal; the Church really handled that situation badly and shook the faith of many. While I don’t advocate ex-Catholics lambasting their former Church, I kind of understand where they’re coming from.
Come off your high horse and be a little more understanding.
R
richardwy
Guest
I don’t want to be a heretic.
G
GKC
Guest
I generally explain it a little differently, with some other emphases, and a slightly different take on a point or two (obviously Henry and Catherine’s marriage was consummated; it was Arthur and Catherine’s that was in question, not sure which you were referring to) , but, as to the last sentence, yes.
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
- Status