Why would you NOT want to be Anglican?

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I came from an Anglican background, child of a mixed-faith marriage.

The Anglican church, and it’s sister: the Episcopal church, are very liberal, that is my opinion having seen it inside and out through half a lifetime. Even the basic doctrines of all Christianity are on a pick and choose basis.

I believe that standing firm on principles and doctrine is essential to keeping a Church pure in God’s eyes. He knows it isn’t easy, and many condemn what they consider “outdated” church rules, which in effect are God’s rules which will never change.

Back to the Anglican Church…I believe it ranges from Ultra Liberal to Conservative in theology. Some clergy even doubt the divinity of Christ…this is not uncommon.

Please research more about this denomination carefully and thoroughly.
 
**Because as in all nonCatholic ecclesial communities, the *fullness *of the Faith is not there. **
 
lampstand said:
I would not want to be Anglican because of that small problem where the founder went nuts and had his wives murdered, one after the other, and looted and burned the monasteries. Just that. :rolleyes: He is not “incidental to their theology.” He was their first theologist. Anglicans now may not be the same, but come on, where did they come from?
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Not murdered - executed. Or is a sovereign ruler not allowed to execute criminals ? And how was he “nuts” ? As for his being the founder of the C of E, that is simply untrue. If the nastinesses in a Church were a sufficient reason not to join it, I wouldn’t be a Catholic: muck-raking is never a good idea.​

Henry’s own work as a theologian was AFAIK limited to a book he wrote (ghost-wrote ?) in 1521. The break with Rome was in 1534, & he was not excommunicated until 1535. Bishop Stephen Gardiner (d. 1555) is (IIRC) the first apologist for the post-Papal Church - William Tyndale wrote earlier, but he was not seeking to defend the English Church of the period after 1534. Only in a very broad sense - too broad to be of any value ISTM - can the Henrician Acts of Parliament including & following the break with Rome be regarded as works of theology by the king. I stand by what I said 🙂 FWIW, his notion of the Church has mediaeval roots: I think he was strongly by the Defensor Pacis of Marsilius of Padua (d. 1329). There was nothing new in the idea that the monarch had authority over the Church in his realm:
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio1.html
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio3.html
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio4.html
    Condemnation of the DP here:
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio2.html
    As for the origin of Anglicanism - it is a reformed edition of the pre-Reformation Church. One difficulty an apologist for it might have is that it can be traced both to St. Augustine of Canterbury (d. c. 604 ?) & to the second & third centuries; but that is not a real problem. The legitimacy of St. Augustine’s mission is not affected by his being sent by a Pope, because St. Gregory the Great counts as a Christian Saint & Pope, whereas some later ones might not (if, that is, one is writing a polemical work to defend Anglicanism - but polemical works are much less in demand than they once were; which is definitely a good thing.)
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Not murdered - executed. Or is a sovereign ruler not allowed to execute criminals ? And how was he “nuts” ? As for his being the founder of the C of E, that is simply untrue. If the nastinesses in a Church were a sufficient reason not to join it, I wouldn’t be a Catholic: muck-raking is never a good idea.​

Henry’s own work as a theologian was AFAIK limited to a book he wrote (ghost-wrote ?) in 1521. The break with Rome was in 1534, & he was not excommunicated until 1535. Bishop Stephen Gardiner (d. 1555) is (IIRC) the first apologist for the post-Papal Church - William Tyndale wrote earlier, but he was not seeking to defend the English Church of the period after 1534. Only in a very broad sense - too broad to be of any value ISTM - can the Henrician Acts of Parliament including & following the break with Rome be regarded as works of theology by the king. I stand by what I said 🙂 FWIW, his notion of the Church has mediaeval roots: I think he was strongly by the Defensor Pacis of Marsilius of Padua (d. 1329). There was nothing new in the idea that the monarch had authority over the Church in his realm:
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio1.html
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio3.html
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio4.html
    Condemnation of the DP here:
  • fordham.edu/halsall/source/marsiglio2.html
    As for the origin of Anglicanism - it is a reformed edition of the pre-Reformation Church. One difficulty an apologist for it might have is that it can be traced both to St. Augustine of Canterbury (d. c. 604 ?) & to the second & third centuries; but that is not a real problem. The legitimacy of St. Augustine’s mission is not affected by his being sent by a Pope, because St. Gregory the Great counts as a Christian Saint & Pope, whereas some later ones might not (if, that is, one is writing a polemical work to defend Anglicanism - but polemical works are much less in demand than they once were; which is definitely a good thing.)
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Henry was greatly responsible for the Assertio Septem Sacramentorum, particularly the first two chapters. But he did have help, most likely.

GKC
 
Gottle of Geer and GKC know their history. History itself would preclude me from being Anglican inasmuch as my ancestors were Irish. That having been said, it is my fervent desire that within the context of history (and recognizing that the English were more Catholic than most of Europe before 1500 AD), that the spiritual descendants of St. Dunstan of Canterbury, St. Edward the Confessor, and St. Thomas Becket may be reconciled to HMC.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Gottle of Geer and GKC know their history. History itself would preclude me from being Anglican inasmuch as my ancestors were Irish. That having been said, it is my fervent desire that within the context of history (and recognizing that the English were more Catholic than most of Europe before 1500 AD), that the spiritual descendants of St. Dunstan of Canterbury, St. Edward the Confessor, and St. Thomas Becket may be reconciled to HMC.
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My ancestors were Scottish-Irish, heavy on the Irish. Which is usually the way I take it, neat.

I thank you for the kind wishes. And suspect I’d like your calligraphy.

Pax tecum, frater

GKC
 
Hopefully, within the next few weeks I will be better able to defend the Anglican Communion. This Sunday, I start Confirmation classes and then, when it can be scheduled with the Bishop, I will undergo Confirmation.

:signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross:
 
michaeldaniels said:
Honestly…I do not see how anyone…ever, could be duped into becoming Anglican…and I don’t understand how those raised Anglican do not convert to Catholicism…The whole existence of Anglicanism/Episcopalians is rooted in a Syphyllis infested, sex craved, self serving, hedonistic, overweight, control freak known as Henry VIII…a man once known as the Fidei Defensor, who quickly abandoned the Pope and the Church when he was not released from his sacramental vows to his wife.* Why would anyone on God’s green earth follow such an obviously man made religion when they know the whole story.
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I believe that you DO need prayers to help you discern.* I believe that spiritually you are quite blind.* Your logic seems to be that of "I am in MY fort, s---- you!* That’ s really Christian !??* I am ashamed of the people here that profess to be Catholics slamming another’s religion as you do.* I am Catholic and proud of it. I do NOT agree with everything that the RCC says.* Yet I AM obedient.* A time will come in the not too distant future where your faith may be tested.* You might need the prayers of many.* Will you question the validity of their prayers then?* Get real people, and don’t think that you are so exclusive that Catholic prayers are the only one God listens to and answers.* You can quote Doctrine and Church Laws and such, but where is the Charity in your heart? Where are the teachings and model of Jesus?* Get off your high horse while there is still time, or you may be rudely knocked off and wonder what hit you.* We need to join together - not to dilute our faiths, but to celebrate what we have in common.* I know that you are entitled to your opinion.* Unfortunately that’s mostly what you have as proof - your opinion.* I suggest you pray for discernment before you respond in self-righteous indignation.
 
GKC said:
My ancestors were Scottish-Irish, heavy on the Irish. Which is usually the way I take it, neat.

I thank you for the kind wishes. And suspect I’d like your calligraphy.

Pax tecum, frater

GKC
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Me too, on all counts. That genetic mix makes for contentiousness and a certain amount of cussedness, though, I must say. At least on my part. Courage, also.
 
brotherhrolf said:
History itself would preclude me from being Anglican inasmuch as my ancestors were Irish.
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Fair enough. I have often wondered about Jews who convert. 'Tis unfaithful to the old sod, it is.
That having been said, it is my fervent desire that within the context of history (and recognizing that the English were more Catholic than most of Europe before 1500 AD), that the spiritual descendants of St. Dunstan of Canterbury, St. Edward the Confessor, and St. Thomas Becket may be reconciled to HMC.
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Don’t forget St. Swithin! A wonderful, very holy man, much admired by his flock. As he was dying, he gave instructions that he should be buried in the ground, like everyone else. Of course his flock buried him in his cathedral.
 
nsper7 said:
Hopefully, within the next few weeks I will be better able to defend the Anglican Communion. This Sunday, I start Confirmation classes and then, when it can be scheduled with the Bishop, I will undergo Confirmation.

:signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross:
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Well you’re a wee bit closer to the Church then you were before. 🙂 Have you ever given the Catholic Church a chance? Perhaps you can do it as you start your Confirmation classes. And perhaps by the time you’re done with your research you can make your Confirmation in the Catholic Church instead. 👍

My daughter will be making her Confirmation in May in the Catholic Church. We’re all excited about it.

Come Holy Spirit!
 
nsper7 said:
Hopefully, within the next few weeks I will be better able to defend the Anglican Communion. This Sunday, I start Confirmation classes and then, when it can be scheduled with the Bishop, I will undergo Confirmation.

:signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross:
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I, personally, learned NOTHING about any teachings of the Episcopal Church during Confirmation…I just learned, “Hey we do this, do that” There are no teachings in the Episcopal Church, outside of the Book of Common Prayer, which is nothing but how they worship. Even my Priest told me that the real teaching of the Episcopal Church is this…"We don’t care what you believe as long as everyone worships the same. " Hum…makes you think, or it should…

However, it’s a step that I made in 04, right before I joined these forums, and this past Saturday, I was confirmed in full communion with the Catholic Church…so, maybe, just maybe, this is a step for you to make in order to actually come HOME soon…

God bless you!
 
emeraldcoast said:
Also, to be honest if my spouse and I ever had trouble in our marriage I would feel more comfortable approaching an Episcopal priest that is married with children then a celibate Catholic priest . If the Catholic Church went back to when priest were able to marry this would not be an issue for me.

God Bless!
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Then join an Eastern-rite Catholic Church if you feel so strongly about that.
 
DJgang said:
I, personally, learned NOTHING about any teachings of the Episcopal Church during Confirmation…I just learned, “Hey we do this, do that” There are no teachings in the Episcopal Church, outside of the Book of Common Prayer, which is nothing but how they worship. Even my Priest told me that the real teaching of the Episcopal Church is this…"We don’t care what you believe as long as everyone worships the same. " Hum…makes you think, or it should…

However, it’s a step that I made in 04, right before I joined these forums, and this past Saturday, I was confirmed in full communion with the Catholic Church…so, maybe, just maybe, this is a step for you to make in order to actually come HOME soon…

God bless you!
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Granted, I’m a different sort of Anglican than Episcopalians, for whom I make no particular case. But when I went through the catechism class, lasting about 6 weeks, we were lectured out of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, Spencer’s YE ARE THE BODY, a history of the Church, Tarsitano’s AN OUTLINE OF AN ANGLICAN LIFE, for Anglicanism specifically, and a book on liturgy that I can’t remember. And we got lots of handouts.

But then, I’m not an Episcopalian, granted.

GKC
 
O.S.Luke said:
I never had any exposure to church life in a Catholic or Anglican context - neither one of those churches were active or present in the area I lived in. So why WOULD I have explored either?
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Uh, the Methodist Church is a direct descendant of the Anglican Church. Wesley was an ordained Anglican minister. 😃
 
nsper7 said:
Hopefully, within the next few weeks I will be better able to defend the Anglican Communion. This Sunday, I start Confirmation classes and then, when it can be scheduled with the Bishop, I will undergo Confirmation.

:signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross: :signofcross:
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Congratulations! That’s my auld religion, before I became a backsliding Unitarian (long story), and I’ve retained a fondness for the auld sod.

I watch EpiScope, an Episcopalian/Anglican news update, which I recommend to you.

episcopalchurch.typepad.com/episcope/

…interestingly, the AC has not ground to a halt over Bishop Robinson. This website relates a lot of stories of thriving groups and congregations and stories from folks fleeing other denominations, including the RCC. As a matter of fact, one thriving church, with a female priest at its head, is mainly made up of converts!

I personally think that women entering the priesthood of the AC have tremendously revived it.
 
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