Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[Atreju]

No, I’m telling you that stability around a local fitness maximum is a mathematical consequence of natural selection. You don’t need any mechanism more than an environment in which some organisms are more likely to survive and reproduce, and descent with modification.

“Any morphological change in the DNA which has a functional counterpart in the phenotype, the actual creature within its environment must involve epigenetic factors, which operate on at least these two ontological levels.”

I can’t make heads or tails of this sentence. I know all the words but they seem to be smashed together randomly. You guys keep saying ‘epigenetics’, I’m not sure you know what that means because it doesn’t contradict evolution at all. It’s just another avenue of inheritance. You understand that there are non-epigenetic genetic changes, right?

 

[Bradskii]

Atreju:

Although I am curious how fossils could be buried in sedimentary layers beneath glacial layers if glaciers take a long time to form and the world is only 6,000 years old.

Part of that question is how long do rotting carcasses last.
Part 2 - is in an aggressive climate vs non-aggressive.

Any answer on that question…?

 

[buffalo]

Pope Pius XII stated in Humani Generis that evolution is perfectly compatible with the Catholic Teaching on creation.

No he did not. Read it entirely.

 

[Aloysium]

You don’t need any mechanism more than an environment in which some organisms are more likely to survive and reproduce.

You need cells having an outer membrane different organelles, protein structures and enzymes along with DNA. There was a blurb I added talking about transposons and how they aid in “mutagenesis” by backwards replication of DNA from RNA and icy or copy and paste DNA from one segment to another in order to permit the execution of the program which results in change at a totally different level - that of the animal or plant itself in relation to its environment. From what you say, it would be that if there aren’t pressures at one level of the creature’s existential reality, those at the level of molecules will not be activated. The creature in other words is a whole - one living being constituted of a hierarchy of structures, from the soul that makes it what it is, to the psychological structure which is organized neuroanatomy in action, these forming part of the inter-related functions of the body constructed of matter.

In other words, we are failing to communicate.

 

[buffalo]

like a child forming in the womb.

“The process is astonishingly simple. In the embryo’s first moments, the Hox genes are dormant, packaged like a spool of wound yarn on the DNA. When the time is right, the strand begins to unwind. When the embryo begins to form the upper levels, the genes encoding the formation of cervical vertebrae come off the spool and become activated. Then it is the thoracic vertebrae’s turn, and so on down to the tailbone. The DNA strand acts a bit like an old-fashioned computer punchcard, delivering specific instructions as it progressively goes through the machine.”

“A new gene comes out of the spool every ninety minutes, which corresponds to the time needed for a new layer of the embryo to be built,” explains Duboule. “It takes two days for the strand to completely unwind; this is the same time that’s needed for all the layers of the embryo to be completed.” This system is the first “mechanical” clock ever discovered in genetics. And it explains why the system is so remarkably precise." Source

 

[Techno2000]

there’s more to environment than temperature.

Yes, there are millions of different idiosyncrasy and characteristics that different organisms have that mere climate change couldn’t possibly be responsible for .There are millions different kinds of fungal species alone .

 

[Atreju]

In other words, we are failing to communicate.

yeah, because you keep talking about “ontologies” and “existential realities” and “psychological structure”, which aren’t scientific terms with specific definitions. it’s just part of this metaphysics you’re very wedded to which doesn’t really seem to map onto reality all that well.

 

[Atreju]

Environment includes other organisms., and there are many fitness peaks.

 

[Aloysium]

You guys keep saying ‘epigenetics’, I’m not sure you know what that means because it doesn’t contradict evolution at all. It’s just another avenue of inheritance. You understand that there are non-epigenetic genetic changes, right?

Epigenetics suggests a fully formed creature with a built in capacity of diversity, which also functions to assist in adaptation to a foreign environment. This fully formed creature has to be created fully functional.

Nonepigenetic changes are usually those that cause deviation by gene deletion. Some trait is lost and we get something different.

Mankind did not arise from apes although we share in much the same information necessary for the creation of our bodily form. That’s the bottom line.

As I said we are failing to communicate

 

[Aloysium]

Aloysium:

In other words, we are failing to communicate.

yeah, because you keep talking about “ontologies” and “existential realities” and “psychological structure”, which aren’t scientific terms with specific definitions. it’s just part of this metaphysics you’re very wedded to which doesn’t really seem to map onto reality all that well.

I keep referring to the limits of science and how evolution is not science but a mythology. There is no doubt in my mind about this.

 

[Atreju]

Sp you are saying that children are genetically identical to their parents?

 

[Atreju]

I’m getting a very Deepak Choprah vibe.

 

[Techno2000]

Environment includes other organisms., and there are many fitness peaks.

Ok, let’s keep it simple, what kind of environmental changes were there that produced the 5 million different fungal species?

 

[Atreju]

Lol “let’s keep it simple, tell me the evolutionary history of 5 million different organisms”

 

[Techno2000]

I’m getting a very Deepak Choprah vibe.

Yeah… you got to be hardcore like rossum to hang with us.

 

[Techno2000]

Lol “let’s keep it simple, tell me the evolutionary history of 5 million different organisms”

Ok, what kind of environmental change came along to produce the artichoke plant ?

 

[Aloysium]

Sp you are saying that children are genetically identical to their parents?

I’m trying to figure out how you might have derived that. Let me say that my children, my grandchildren, and so on, are manifestations of humankind, regardless of their genetic make up or gross morphology, as were my progenitors going back to Adam.

 

[Atreju]

The modern artichoke is affected a lot by human selection, which is why they are tastier than the wild variety.

 

[Atreju]

Does that apply to every species?

 

[Techno2000]

The modern artichoke is affected a lot by human selection, which is why they are tastier than the wild variety.

Great, selective breeding, let move on to our next plant…the wild Orchids, the kind that grow in the jungle that man has never touched.