Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true

[rossum]

Yes it does. And entropy is a measure of ???.

Entropy is a measure of the amount of thermal energy that can be extracted from a physical system. Low entropy means a lot of energy can be extracted. High entropy means less energy can be extracted. It is related to the number of molecular microstates available to the system in its given macroscopic configuration. See Statistical Mechanics for more details than you probably want to see.

 

[Wozza]

I concur. My clumsy way of explaining it to our good friend Buffalo in terms of an isolated system.

I think he should listen more to you than me. He’d get a lot more clarity.

 

[Wozza]

buffalo:

Yes it does. And entropy is a measure of ???.

Entropy is a measure of the amount of thermal energy that can be extracted from a physical system. Low entropy means a lot of energy can be extracted. High entropy means less energy can be extracted. It is related to the number of molecular microstates available to the system in its given macroscopic configuration. See Statistical Mechanics for more details than you probably want to see.

See what I mean.

Buffalo, listen to this guy! He’s educating us all.

 

[buffalo]

Rock and roll! We have agreed on speciation. One small step for Buff. One giant leap for evolution.

We never has an issue. Speciation is loss of a function once had, the loss of ability to reproduce with one side of the split.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Rock and roll! We have agreed on speciation. One small step for Buff. One giant leap for evolution.

We never has an issue. Speciation is loss of a function once had, the loss of ability to reproduce with one side of the split.

Uh…yeah. One species can’t breed (generally) with another. It’s a rough indication that speciation has occured.

Hang on. Are you saying that’s the only change? Whaaat?

Even Techno has accepted that changes happen in a species because of, for one example, environmental changes. Now either something adapts to the new environment or it dies. If it adapts, then as you said, we have a new species.

Yes, by definition it can’t breed with the ‘old’ species. But it has changed to allow it to survive in the new environment.

So the question could be asked of any creature during the process: Do you want to change and survive? You can still breed with the new species but not the old. Or stay the same and breed with your existing species and…die?

And you think the second option - dying, is the better one?

 

[buffalo]

Of course we should realize the other meaning of entropy that is related, the amount of organization, the gradual decline into disorder. A measure of information theory is entropy. The sun’s energy increases entropy.

 

[buffalo]

Uh…yeah. One species can’t breed (generally) with another. It’s a rough indication that speciation has occured.

Someone, perhaps you, were questioning why there were so many fungi species.

Yes, the species that can no longer reproduce may adapt, aka micro-evolution.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Uh…yeah. One species can’t breed (generally) with another. It’s a rough indication that speciation has occured.

Someone, perhaps you, were questioning why there were so many fungi species.

Yes, the species that can no longer reproduce may adapt, aka micro-evolution.

Micro evolution produces new species? Another small step for Buffalo!

But you still seem to think that the second option - going extinct, is the better one? It’s like ‘Hey, I just moved into this cool neighbourhood. My last girlfriend - well, no more sex there. She’s dead. But look at all the options here!’

 

[buffalo]

Micro evolution produces new species? Another small step for Buffalo!

They are devolving every time we see a lineage split even though an adaptation may give them a temporary survival advantage.

Yes, most of them will go extinct. The fossil record shows abrupt appearance, stasis and variation within. The record is replete with extinctions.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Micro evolution produces new species? Another small step for Buffalo!

They are devolving every time we see a lineage split even though an adaptation may give them a temporary survival advantage.

Yes, most of them will go extinct. The fossil record shows abrupt appearance, stasis and variation within. The record is replete with extinctions.

This is progress. Yes, you are right. Even our advantage is temporary.

But you still seem to be advocating that an advantage in survival is not worth as much as carrying on before and going extinct. It’s like saying that we can’t now breed with apes is a bad thing.

That has me puzzled.

 

[buffalo]

But you still seem to be advocating that an advantage in survival is not worth as much as carrying on before and going extinct.

When a bacteria ejects its motive tail for temporary and short term survival, it will go extinct.

 

[rossum]

A measure of information theory is entropy.

How do we know this? You have failed to tell us how to measure your “functional specified complex information”. How can you measure something if you do not know how to measure it? You are not using one of the standard scientific measures of information here. Shannon information, for example, does not have to be functional, specified or complex. We can have a single bit of Shannon information, and that cannot be described as “complex”.

The sun’s energy increases entropy.

It may, or may not increase entropy. Sunlight on ice increases entropy. Sunlight on chlorophyll decreases entropy. Sunlight on salt water increases entropy in the water and decreases it in the salt.

Entropy is not as simple as you seem to think it is.

 

[rossum]

When a bacteria ejects its motive tail for temporary and short term survival, it will go extinct.

A single bacteria will only go extinct if a) it is the last of its species and b) it fails to divide after ejecting its tail.

Far more commonly it will die, but the species will continue.

Your lack of relevant knowledge is showing here buffalo. Lack of knowledge is curable by learning: “An intelligent mind acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.” - Proverbs 18:15.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

But you still seem to be advocating that an advantage in survival is not worth as much as carrying on before and going extinct.

When a bacteria ejects its motive tail for temporary and short term survival, it will go extinct.

I told ya! You need to listen to rossum.

 

[buffalo]

How do we know this?

Any physics site will explain it.

An instruction set to build a simple bench will have a certain number of information bits. A table and chairs will have more. A car will have many many more. As the target gets more complicated the number of bits increase.

 

[buffalo]

Entropy is not as simple as you seem to think it is.

Is the long term direction an increase of entropy?

 

[buffalo]

Far more commonly it will die, but the species will continue.

Unless they all eject their tails and die before reproducing.

 

[Wozza]

rossum:

Far more commonly it will die, but the species will continue.

Unless they all eject their tails and die before reproducing.

What is it with the need to state the obvious as if it’s an argument?

If they all do something that will lead to them dying, they will go extinct. Really?

If the environment changes, speciation occurs. Really?

If you are a new species, you can’t mate with the old one. Really?

 

[buffalo]

What is it with the need to state the obvious as if it’s an argument?

Because I think you missed it.

 

[buffalo]

What is it with the need to state the obvious as if it’s an argument?

If they all do something that will lead to them dying, they will go extinct. Really?

If the environment changes, speciation occurs. Really?

If you are a new species, you can’t mate with the old one. Really?

Yes! …