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Wozza
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That things go extinct if they don’t adapt?Wozza:
Because I think you missed it.
There was a guy back in tbe 1800’s who wrote a book about this. You should get a copy.
Why you should think that the Natural-Evolution of species is true
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There was a guy back in tbe 1800’s who wrote a book about this. You should get a copy.
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buffalo
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Yes! …
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Wozza
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I…don’t get this. You are agreeing with definitions of evolution. These aren’t arguments. I am quoting from a playbook that you say you reject. Yet you agree with what I say.Wozza:
Yes! …
I really don’t think that you know much about what you are discussing. You deny what I say yet accept what I post.
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buffalo
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What is it you think I reject?
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Wozza
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I haven’t the foggiest. You agree that speciation occurs. You agree that the environment plays a part. You agree that species cannot interbreed. You agree that if you don’t adapt you become extinct. You agree that changing to meet the requirements of a new environment is beneficial. You agree that evolving organisms can result in millions of new species.Wozza:
What is it you think I reject?
I honestly don’t know what you reject.
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buffalo
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Apparently you are new to this thread?
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Wozza
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I can only respond to what you post. And you appear to agree with everything posted so far. As listed above. Although there seems to be some reluctance to do so.Wozza:
Apparently you are new to this thread?
I can only assume that there’s some internal conflict going on. Maybe you’re a YEC and although you find yourself agreeing with the process of evolution, part of you has to reject it because of religious beliefs.
That’s a tough gig. Good luck with it. Seriously.
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buffalo
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Nope. Science is able to do it all by itself.
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rossum
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A set of instructions will contains a number of molecules at a given temperature and in a certain range of configurations. Entropy is calculated from the allowed configurations of those molecules at that temperature. Read any good Statistical Mechanics textbook for details.
Again you are failing to provide necessary information. How does functional information differ from non-functional information when calculating entropy? If you cannot tell us how the two calculations differ, then we cannot differentiate between functional information and non-functional information.
Science is sometimes a matter of grinding out nit-picking details. This is just such a case. You need to give us the details of how the calculations differ; enough details so that we can actually perform the entropy calculations and see the different entropy values for 1MB of non-functional information and 1MB of functional information.
Absent those details, all you have is hand waving.
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rossum
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The direction of what? How long is “long term”? You are asking how long is a piece of string. And then we have the question of whether the universe is a closed system for the purposes of SLoT. However, that is a topic for another thread.
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Hobgoblin
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I’m new to this thread. I’ve only read posts from the last 10 days or so and have no intention of spending the next month reading the rest.
I’m confused like Wozza. You seem to agree with evolution and claim ID at the same time. Can you give a brief summary of where you’re coming from for me?
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buffalo
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What is IDvolution?
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
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idvolution.blogspot.com
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IWantGod
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Edit: God breathed the super language of “kinds” into DNA as a representation of God’s divine plan.
It’s better to think that out of DNA different kinds of things have emerged.
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Techno2000
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There are 25,000 different species of wild Orchid in the world.How many transitional forms do you suppose it took evolution to produce this.
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Wozza
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Correct me if I’m wrong here. But it seems that you are attempting to select specific aspects of science that appear to bolster your religious views. And rejecting those aspects that contradict it.Wozza:
Nope. Science is able to do it all by itself.
It is plain that your religious views are foremost in your thinking. With which I have no problem. But it does lead to contradictions between what you believe and what the evidence tells us.
Are you a YEC? It would go someway to clearing a certain confusion I have regarding what you post.
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Wozza
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Just a guess, but a lot less than that needed to produce your 5 million species of funghi.IWantGod:
There are 25,000 different species of wild Orchid in the world.How many transitional forms do you suppose it took evolution to produce this.
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Wozza
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Ah…you ARE a YEC. That explains it. I need to bear that in mind for future discussions.Hobgoblin:
What is IDvolution?
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.
This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
IDvolution.org: What is IDvolution?
Is that your web site? You seem keen on entropy. The Penrose quote (apart from being irrelevant to your definition) is incorrect. Can you see the error?
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Techno2000
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I could go along with thatTechno2000:
Just a guess, but a lot less than that needed to produce your 5 million species of funghi.IWantGod:
There are 25,000 different species of wild Orchid in the world.How many transitional forms do you suppose it took evolution to produce this.
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rossum
Guest
Above, we were discussing entropy with respect to information theory. There is already a well established scientific theory relating entropy and Shannon information, see Entropy (information theory) for an introduction.
Of course, that theory relates to simple Shannon information. What I am looking for from the ID side is how that theory changes (if at all) when the information is functional and specified. How does the equation:
I assume that there is no change to the equation if the information is complex, since that is just a description of the quantity of the information present; 1 bit is not complex while 500MB is complex.
If there is a relationship between entropy and functional specified information then ID needs to explicitly specify that relationship in scientific terms. Otherwise all it has is hand-waving.
Of course, that theory relates to simple Shannon information. What I am looking for from the ID side is how that theory changes (if at all) when the information is functional and specified. How does the equation:
change when the information is functional? How does it change when the information is specified?
I assume that there is no change to the equation if the information is complex, since that is just a description of the quantity of the information present; 1 bit is not complex while 500MB is complex.
If there is a relationship between entropy and functional specified information then ID needs to explicitly specify that relationship in scientific terms. Otherwise all it has is hand-waving.
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Aloysium
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Sentient organisms exist as an individual perceiving and feeling united whole, doing so as an expression of the kind of living thing it is. This capacity is a feature of the relational nature that unites the creature with the world around it. We can describe such living beings, each as a self which identifies and reacts emotionally to what it senses things around it, and behaves according to its nature. This relational quality seen in sentient beings, we describe in psychological terms. The unity that is the creature existing as itself, can at the same time, be understood in terms of the interactions of its constituent parts, the organ systems, which work together to keep it alive, incorporating external matter into itself, and the basic matter, the atoms, and the myriad of configurations they take, to form the trillions of cells that make up the body. Most of this is unconscious, behind the scenes as it were, making possible the expression of the creature’s relational nature. This connection between the self and the world is mediated by neural patterns of excitation. It is all built into the brain, with some capacity to grow and develop the network through experiential learning. Again, the physical and psychological being one, it is the organism as one unified entity, that is sentient, expanding that quality as it journeys through life.
Living things procreate, and thereby a new and different being is brought into existence, of the same kind as its parent(s). There is much variety possible as a result of genetic and epigenetic factors, seemingly built into the creation of the first of any particular kind of life form. This feature also allows future offspring to relate to the world in novel ways, many of which are adaptive to changes in the environment, to which they in turn contribute. It is also the means by which various forms of beauty are expressed. As some have previously mentioned, what was created in the beginning was probably along the lines of what we classify as a genus.
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