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Bluegrass2003
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Thanks !Great post Bluegrass!![]()
Thanks !Great post Bluegrass!![]()
As a 23 year-old youth minister, Iâd like to throw my own thoughts in on two of the things you brought upI read this article, and Iâm 25 - I can tell you it has good points, and others that are somewhat off.
I can speak for my generation as to why young people leave the Catholic church:
Young adults that are leaving need to be shown the Catholic faith isnât about soft emotions and hippie love anymore. Nor is it some kind of monster that wants to ruin all the âfunâ things in your lifestyle.
- hokey Masses - insufferable hymns played all lovey-dubey. This isnât Godpsell in 1973. Priests that give benign, vague and irrelevant sermons donât help, either.
- Poor catechism - being taught the watered-down basics of faith by a bunch of lukewarm lay adults. Also, parents who shrugged off the Catholic church 30 years ago are a big cause of the problem as well.
- Relativism - moral is the big one here. Also, in my Catholic high school, I had to take 3 courses that tried to tie (and thus dilute) our religious beliefs with other faiths. I want to learn about more MY faith, one course on world religions is fine.
- Lack of Marian and saint devotions - this stuff is NOT outdated. Itâs part of our faith, yet young adults (and society in general) make fun of the BVM and saints at every turn. These aspects are downplayed (if they are ever mentioned) in modern catechism. I had to learn it all from my parents.
- Universities - went to a Catholic one where it was required that only two semesters of âtheologyâ were needed, and courses were offered in almost everything religious except Catholic doctrine (many taught by ultra-left lay profs). Also, charismatic non-denominational Christian student groups that aim at snagging Catholics by being âfriendlierâ than the rest of University Ministry.
- Society - look at my peers. They think the Catholic church is like their grandparents, telling them not to co-habitate, not to live in a hedonistic way, and that itâs out of step with modern liberal views. Itâs just not the popular thing to be.
Seems fitting to me for the Father of a church to be the physical embodiment of the Father of the Church. All Catholic priests are endowed with the Holy Spirit during the Sacraments through persona Christi. Again not to say that women arenât capable of being in the priesthood but that is not the way God intended or there probably would have been women Apostles. The feminist movement was the beginning of the undoing of this society because some women removed the idea that being a mother wasnât an honest enough living. Before I get too off topic I will stop there.Okay, just pointing out, that while Iâm against female priesthood because that is not what Christ established, your arguement about Mother being ridiculous as a term since Mary is Mother of the Church strikes me as a bad arguement. Isnât God the Father of all, including the Church? And since this is true, does that mean we shouldnât call Priests Fathers? Of course not. In the same way, Mary being the Mother of the Church doesnât stop Priestesses from being called Mothers, right?
Not that I disagree with your overall premise (women should not be Priests since Christ didnât establish that), itâs just that this arguement struck me as a weak one.
While I believe that you fully understand the importance of the Mass I honestly doubt that you understand its significance. Each moment of the Mass (independently of the rite or form) is full of history and theology, and I cannot believe that all of it can be boring if you are aware of its significance.Iâm going to be brutally honest here as a fifteen year old Catholic.
You really, truly want to know why young Catholics leave the Church?
Because Catholicism is NOT easy. Itâs strict. Itâs demanding.
And, I think even more importantly, because Mass is boring.
Iâm just being honest here. I know its importance and I make it a real point to try and go every day of obligation, but it IS boring. I think so, many of my Catholic friends think so. None of the tips and tricks to make Mass more interesting worked for me. Now, that doesnât mean I donât understand the tremendous importance and significance of the Mass.
But it is boring. Sorry.
In fact, the boredom of the Mass actually (very briefly) tempted me toward the prebyterian denomination before I came to my sense, thank God. I wasnât very well versed in my faith at the time. So I can see how young Catholics who donât fully understand the faith can be tempted to leave the Church.
BTW-I donât know a single Catholic who puts Mary and the Saints on the same level as God. Not one. Seriously.
Funny. These are the reasons I left the Church as a 15 year old kid. I didnât come back to the Church until I was 30 and hungry enough to investigate the truth on my own.As a young Catholic, I may have some insights.
- You need to learn at a young age that even though you canât prove scientifically that Jesus is a supreme being any more than Buddha or Krishna, lack of scientific evidence does not take faith into the equation. Young people need to learn that faith is the belief in things which cannot be empirically assessed. No one is trying to âproveâ that God exists. You canât.
- Young Catholics need to be exposed to different faiths at a young age. One of the most important trips I ever went on was a multi-faith trip which involved visits and discussions with Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and Unitarians, among others.
- Stress Catholic Social Teaching. People relate to this better than the line between a venial & mortal sin.
- Allow women to assume the priesthood
And there, we get back to our problem of poor Catechesis⌠Most ADULT Catholics know very little about the significant of the Mass, let alone their children⌠Good liturgical education is a must!I am just saying that I doubt that any person that has been properly catechized on the significance of the different aspects of Holy Sacrifice of the Mass could call them boring.
I have to agree with the bold. At 16, let me be another young voice.Perhaps I can add my voice in this conversation?
As far as I know, I am the only âyoung Catholicâ who has posted on this thread. I go to Mass every Sunday, but I will confess that there was a period of time a few months ago where I did not go to Mass for two months. I belief that a big and important reason why young Catholics such as myself leave the church is because of how society portrays Catholicism and we how we perceive it. Frankly, I believe that we need to modernize the Church to make young Catholics stay interested and want to come back. We also need to punish those who are clergy that use their positions to abuse children and to take advantage of others. We cannot afford to be âpolitically correctâ in this society. We need to stand up and confront problems head on, not pacify them.
These are my two cents, and if anyone wishes to discuss them further, please do. I welcome this discussion.
I agree exactly with you here. I had wanted to mention about traditional liturgies, even though the Latin Rite is gaining in popularity, itâs not for everyone. I see it as the opposite pole from hokey âGlory and Praiseâ stuff that weâve been force-fed for decades.As a 23 year-old youth minister, Iâd like to throw my own thoughts in on two of the things you brought up
On Masses: The sort of hokey, awful masses you talk about are one thing that isolates kids â Iâve seen some really poorly done masses, complete with some really bad music and liturgical abuses, turn kids off. But I think that many âultra-traditionalistâ approaches to the mass also turn off young Catholics. Too many times, I feel like weâre forced to believe that, when it comes to liturgy, we either have to be 1) Playing showtunes and Marty Haugen songs while we hold hands around the altar or 2) Be the Society of St. Pius X and spend hours arguing over why thereâs too much ânewâ in the mass.
As Iâve travelled in ministry, Iâve found that a great number of young Catholics are extremely on fire for a faith that is able to blend tradition with contemporary-ness. (Whatâs the noun form of that? I donât even know.) Our band does mass and adoration with a mix of electric guitars, acoustic guitars, bass, keyboard, and drums, but we are also careful to use songs that are actually suitable for worship, both from older traditional songs (Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence has become a very popular song with our group and friends) and contemporary Christian songs (we use a lot of songs by Misty Edwards and Chris Tomlin). And yet despite the fact that weâve got a full band that often has a strong rock vibe, the prayer and attentiveness to the mass and passion for the Eucharist are very present â this is a fusion that I donât find is very common, but yet itâs a fusion that is very powerful!
The true passion of many younger Catholics is to finally reconcile the beauty of the traditional reverence of the Mass with the contemporary passion and fire of modern music and prayer.
It might have been boring to those Watching Christ slowly suffocate to death for 4 or 5 hours all the while forgiving those who did it to Him.But it is boring. Sorry.
Remember that there is a RCC outside of your parish, as in Mexico, he Americas, and in Europe, in the areas where itâs still an active religion. Many older, more traditional populations still practice the sort of Catholicism I am describing, which is one end of a spectrum.You forgot to mention we are cannibals and also worship statues-although in more liberal Parishes we have replaced that with worshipping bannersâŚ
I know itâs not entertainment. I understand this. I realize the Massâs tremendous importance. But itâs boring. Just, as you said, standing at Cavalry wathing Jesus die mustâve been boring.It might have been boring to those Watching Christ slowly suffocate to death for 4 or 5 hours all the while forgiving those who did it to Him.
Itâs not about us, but about Him! Itâs not entertainment, it is True Worship in which we sacrifice ourselves for an hour for Him. We donât go to Mass to be entertained, we go to give Him Worship. In The Mass we are made present in the upper room and at Calvary.
Everything changed for me when I stopped worrying about how I felt and started focusing on what He did. Do this and you might find that your are glad to make this minuscule sacrifice for love of Him.
I too have read much of that article. Iâm not of your generation but agree that you are on the right trackâIâm more like your grandfather. I was raised in a strict Catholic military academy since both parents were gone by the time I reached age 10. I was an altar boy for the Traditional Catholic Mass. I became a âcolor sargentâ in my 7 and 8th grade and raised the American flag with the whole company of 70 standing at attention with a buggler doing his thing. Now fast forward.I read this article, and Iâm 25 - I can tell you it has good points, and others that are somewhat off.
I can speak for my generation as to why young people leave the Catholic church:
Young adults that are leaving need to be shown the Catholic faith isnât about soft emotions and hippie love anymore. Nor is it some kind of monster that wants to ruin all the âfunâ things in your lifestyle.
- hokey Masses - insufferable hymns played all lovey-dubey. This isnât Godpsell in 1973. Priests that give benign, vague and irrelevant sermons donât help, either.
- Poor catechism - being taught the watered-down basics of faith by a bunch of lukewarm lay adults. Also, parents who shrugged off the Catholic church 30 years ago are a big cause of the problem as well.
- Relativism - moral is the big one here. Also, in my Catholic high school, I had to take 3 courses that tried to tie (and thus dilute) our religious beliefs with other faiths. I want to learn about more MY faith, one course on world religions is fine.
- Lack of Marian and saint devotions - this stuff is NOT outdated. Itâs part of our faith, yet young adults (and society in general) make fun of the BVM and saints at every turn. These aspects are downplayed (if they are ever mentioned) in modern catechism. I had to learn it all from my parents.
- Universities - went to a Catholic one where it was required that only two semesters of âtheologyâ were needed, and courses were offered in almost everything religious except Catholic doctrine (many taught by ultra-left lay profs). Also, charismatic non-denominational Christian student groups that aim at snagging Catholics by being âfriendlierâ than the rest of University Ministry.
- Society - look at my peers. They think the Catholic church is like their grandparents, telling them not to co-habitate, not to live in a hedonistic way, and that itâs out of step with modern liberal views. Itâs just not the popular thing to be.
Hugh, good points here.Our seven children all went to Catholic grade and high schools but we sent them to a church which still taught the Baltimore catechism on Sunday after the NO Mass and they remained Catholic. Only one of the seven has ceased going to Mass and that appears to be because their first born died of neuroblastoma cancer at age three plus our sonâs business requires he work on Saturday and Sunday.
Whatâs my point in all this? Return to what works in keeping the Catholic faith strong within our families as Turbo observed at age 25; specifically by: (1) Replacing the NO Mass with the Traditional Tridentine Mass as the Pope is encouraging. (2) Teaching Catholic doctrine as the early church fathers and doctors of the church taught (3) Convince Rome and the Bishops to dump the silly notion of Theistic Evolution (TE) where some almighty computer programmer supposedly sits behind his celestial computer occasionally punching a key that changes one species into another; How many atheists and Buddhists etc have been converted to Catholicism by dialoging on the subject of evolution; come on give me a break. TE is just a tool of atheism anyway and that certainly drives our youth of today into the arms of more religious Bible reading pro-test-ants IF the youth have any remaining desire to have a working relationship with their Creator. In other words in the language of today who wants to pray to a computer geek so learn the scientific evidence against evolution as Pope Pius XII urged us to do; and, as the evangelicals are doing with their children.
So Turbo, what do you think of the above? Any other specific suggestions to bring your fellow youthful Catholics back to the faith?
Very good response! Education, under whatever form, is the real answer. As has been repeated many times, no one who KNOWS the Catholic religion ever leaves the Church.Hugh, good points here.
However, young adults like me arenât flocking to the Tridentine Masses in my archdiocese (Chicago) in droves. There are some like me who attend Mass regularly that know what Tridentine Mass is, and sometimes go to it. However, like Iâve said here before, the ultra-traditional stuff isnât going to bring the numbers of participating young adults up. My friends who have fallen away from the church prefer simplicity, less on anything they might perceive as âshowy.â
Keep in mind, the average Catholic, urban young adult today probably went through poor CCD or Catholic schooling and knows little, if anything about Church history. Latin Mass to them is a long Mass in a language they donât understand nor want to (and I know first-hand from studying with my university in Rome. When given the choice between going to a Mass in Latin or in Italian/English, my Mass-going classmates overwhelmingly chose the vernacular. Even the Latin majors).
Secondly, thereâs not going to be a sea-change to revert to the age before Vatican II. My parents are both 64; they have been active in the Catholic Church before Vatican II but arenât ones to say âthe good old days.â Todayâs Mass has been made accessible to everyone, itâs just been abused and disfigured into something that young adults reject or take for granted.
One thing to bring young adults back is what one parish is doing in downtown Chicago: religious education programs for busy professionals. These are refresher courses in basic Catholic doctrine (or FAQ sessions) that are geared towards young adults, and are done during lunch hour or after work. Itâs simple, it has a good turn out among young people, and it gets young adults to appreciate their church more.