Why young Catholics are leaving the Church

[RPRPsych]

This has been a fascinating discussion, and I’d like to thank every poster for giving me plenty of food for thought!

The original article is well-written, and raises several important issues. However, let me add my thoughts:

1. Poor sermons and liturgical music are definitely a problem. In my parish, things have sunk to such a low that any execrable pop tune that grabs the choir’s attention (from “I Started A Joke” to “Sexy Eyes” - I kid you not) is used for such venerable parts of the Mass as the Lamb Of God or the Gloria. Good Lord, deliver us.
2. I also agree with the posters who said that sermons are often short and uninspiring. Instead of sound doctrine, my own experience has also been that what we get is a series of vague messages on peace, love and understanding, which are all very well, but hardly going to move us to a change of heart by themselves. However, I’d like to take issue with the political commentator (Hewitt?) who dismisses the Bishops as “silly old men” simply because they spoke against nuclear war. I’m sorry, but the Church isn’t there to please you or to try and repeat your political shibboleths, whether they are conservative or liberal. Would Mr. Hewitt have called Our Lord a “silly man” if he had heard Him telling His disciples to love their enemies and pray for them? The greatness of the Catholic Church (unlike the “evangelical” Churches) is that she opens her arms to all believers without the need to subscribe to a particular political ideology.
3. The Church needs to reclaim the Bible, affirm its inerrancy, and stop accepting “Catholic” Bible translations which claim (for example) that the book of Daniel was a pious fiction written in 167 B.C., and so on. It’s with great regret that I have to say that Protestants sometimes score over us on this. Also, sound and regular teaching (at ALL ages, not just for a few years in school) about the Church’s interpretation of the Bible would help correct misconceptions about such issues as sola Scriptura, the “Rapture”, bizarre interpretations of the Apocalypse, etc.
4. One of the myriad things that makes the Church great is unity. Recently I took a bus ride from my home city to Pondicherry, where I work. I could count at least 20 Protestant and Pentecostal churches of different denominations… and I’m not even living in a predominantly Christian country. We should work to preserve that unity. “Liberal” bishops who overturn Church teachings and dogmas, tell us that abortion, the promotion of gay lifestyles, and sexual “laxity” are “not all that bad”, and apply the “Pastoral Solution” indiscriminately are undermining that unity. And, unfortunately, so do ultra-“Traditionalists” (thank God, not an issue in India) who claim that, inter alia, the last few Popes are not legitimate, that John Paul II participated in the worship of Hindu gods (he didn’t - it would have been ALL over our local papers if he had!), and that Paul VI and Sr Lucia were replaced by impostors. Both these camps, if given a chance, can do us serious harm. It’s almost as if we were back in the time of the Sadducees (who denied the resurrection) and the Pharisees (who were more in love with their traditions than with the Lord who handed them down). From swerving away from God’s path, either to the right or to the left, deliver us.

And finally - to the poster who said Theistic Evolution was “the tool of atheism”, I’d like to respectfully disagree, and point you to a book by Francis S. Collins, “The Language Of God”. Some of us have no problem with it, some do. While the Church should refrain from officially endorsing it (vide the principles of Romans 14), there’s nothing wrong with tolerating a plurality of opinions on the issue (as is the case with, say, predestination), as long as none of them conflict with our faith.

That’s about all I can think of now. Once again, thanks to everyone for their views…

 

[Adeodatus]

If there were supposed to be a “strategy” for keeping young folks in the Church, I’d propose the strategy of ‘no strategy’… just plain, old-fashioned integrity.

If Jesus Christ is Who He says He Is (yes), and the Church is what it says it is (also yes), then ultimately we just need to act like it and everything will fall into place. That’s one of the many reasons why gimmicks like dancing chickens, clown masses, modern music, liturgical dance and all that other nonsense are so stupid. If you really believe that the Living God just miraculously became present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in some bread and wine, would you really have a dancing chicken in the sanctuary? Would you really have a bunch of songs where the congregation sings about itself?

Our “job one” as the Church is simply to do what we are supposed to do, in the manner in which we are supposed to do it. Young folks will come to us if they want what we’re offering. If they don’t want it… that’s sad but you can hardly do an end run around free will. You’re not going to trick somebody into being a Christian, nor ease them into it with milk and cookies. Christianity is ultimately too radical for that.

Worship reverently, do good works and witness to the glory of Jesus Christ. I’m pretty sure that’s all it takes.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Young folks will come to us if they want what we’re offering. If they don’t want it… that’s sad but you can hardly do an end run around free will. You’re not going to trick somebody into being a Christian, nor ease them into it with milk and cookies. Christianity is ultimately too radical for that.

Right, but we are talking about forming the characters and habits of young people, so I’m a bit less willing to shrug it off as free will and go about my merry way. Just…teach it. Be engaging. Meet the kids where they are. Understand that, at least in the US, these children (and young people) are being bombarded from every direction with messages contrary to what the Gospels and the Church teach. Nice Mrs. So-and-So who is your 8th grader’s catechist may not be sufficient in and of herself to get the job done. Let’s offer her a hand. Accept reality. The our society has changed, and what used to work no longer does.

The alternative is a further erosion of our Catholic culture. If my generation (“Gen X”) isn’t going to church, and not taking their kids with the exception of Wed, Bred, and Dead…what will happen when our kids are parents?

 

[RPRPsych]

If there were supposed to be a “strategy” for keeping young folks in the Church, I’d propose the strategy of ‘no strategy’… just plain, old-fashioned integrity.

Excellent post. Amen to that!!

No amount of “gimmicks” will work - conversion by example is the only way. It’s not that it doesn’t work - it’s just that it’s not the easiest thing to do.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

We can know that God exists by unaided human reason…unaided meaning it isn’t necessary that God reveal his existence to us.

But proving what, beyond His existence? I have a number of friends who left the Church because they no longer believe in an imminent God, but consider Him wholly transcendent. One of the things that convinced them of that is because God doesn’t reveal his existence to us. They tend to believe that God’s intent was just to get the ball rolling and no more.

 

[wolstrom]

*I don’t seek to speculate on how well or poorly Catholic parents are educating their children in the Faith or being examples of it but if they’re not doing it or doing it right they need change. The family is where we learn (or don’t) the Faith so perhaps that’s where we should start.
*

While I agree with the above, I don’t think all the blame can be put on the parents. Our children do have free choice just like anyone else. I know several good Catholic families that even have some priests and nuns in the ranks, yet one of the children will rebel and declare all the parents’ beliefs “garbage”. I also know several people who were raised in the Church, went to Catholic Schools all their lives, and when they made it to adulthood rejected the faith.

 

[Cristiano]

*I don’t seek to speculate on how well or poorly Catholic parents are educating their children in the Faith or being examples of it but if they’re not doing it or doing it right they need change. The family is where we learn (or don’t) the Faith so perhaps that’s where we should start.
*

While I agree with the above, I don’t think all the blame can be put on the parents. Our children do have free choice just like anyone else. I know several good Catholic families that even have some priests and nuns in the ranks, yet one of the children will rebel and declare all the parents’ beliefs “garbage”. I also know several people who were raised in the Church, went to Catholic Schools all their lives, and when they made it to adulthood rejected the faith.

I think that one point is learning about the Faith and the other is learning how to live the Faith. If we miss the first we cannot move on with the second, and if do not move onto the second point we leave the Church because it is boring. Most people think that being Catholic is going to Mass on Sunday and not really living their life with God as a driving force. When you live that way, your life is disconnected from the Mass and the Mass becomes boring.

 

[CFXDrummer]

What’s my point in all this? Return to what works in keeping the Catholic faith strong within our families as Turbo observed at age 25; specifically by: (1) Replacing the NO Mass with the Traditional Tridentine Mass as the Pope is encouraging. (2) Teaching Catholic doctrine as the early church fathers and doctors of the church taught (3) Convince Rome and the Bishops to dump the silly notion of Theistic Evolution (TE) where some almighty computer programmer supposedly sits behind his celestial computer occasionally punching a key that changes one species into another; How many atheists and Buddhists etc have been converted to Catholicism by dialoging on the subject of evolution; come on give me a break. TE is just a tool of atheism anyway and that certainly drives our youth of today into the arms of more religious Bible reading pro-test-ants IF the youth have any remaining desire to have a working relationship with their Creator. In other words in the language of today who wants to pray to a computer geek so learn the scientific evidence against evolution as Pope Pius XII urged us to do; and, as the evangelicals are doing with their children.
So Turbo, what do you think of the above? Any other specific suggestions to bring your fellow youthful Catholics back to the faith?

As far as your comments on the mass… I am not against the Tridentine Mass by any means. I’ve never been to one, but I’m just waiting for the opportunity to be able to attend one in my area – I think it’s a beautiful liturgy, and it’s many of the same things I admire about the Tridentine Mass that has led me to fall in love with the Byzantine Catholic Liturgy (Every once in awhile I’ll go to a Byzantine church near me on Sundays instead of my parish).

But I think you’re mistaken in insisting that the way to solve the problem is to simply return to the old mass. The root of our present liturgical crisis isn’t so much from the form of the liturgy itself, but from the WAY many priests have celebrated it, and what they have allowed to be done in the mass. I’m a strong advocate of continuing the celebration of both rites – I have seen horrible Novus Ordo masses with irreverent music and outright abuses of the liturgy, but as I described in my first post, I have also seen and been a part of Novus Ordo masses that are very faithful to the liturgy and the Church, and are very passionate, devout, and prayerful, even thought some would write it off simply because we have guitars and a drum set. (And to whoever mentioned liturgical dancing – I would never, in any way, EVER advocate that)

Teaching the doctrines of the Church from an early age is critical, and I’m on board there, but I also think that it’s a mistake to subscribe to the Biblical fundamentalists’ version of some kind of fairy-tale, 6,000 year-old world where everything popped into existence magically in a week, and Noah actually rode out a flood that covered the whole world. Theistic Evolution is not at all a “tool of atheism,” but rather a recognition that God can, and very often does, work through secondary causes to achieve His design – there is nothing in Scripture that in any way “explicitly” proves that Creation happened in a week – there is, however, a vast preponderance of scientific evidence that suggests that -some- form of evolutionary theory, however incomplete, is true. Faith & reason, when properly applied, don’t contradict one another.

But that part’s fairly off-topic, so excuse my rant. But my main thrust is that we need to be less concerned with which liturgy we celebrate, and instead focus on making our liturgies authentic, and protecting them from the silly, hokey abuses that are (thankfully) being increasingly rejected by younger Catholics.

 

[hugh_miller]

I agree, we need to teach Church Doctrine including the Church Fathers!

 

[DrSharkey]

While it’s sad to read this information, it’s not just Catholics. Many young adults give up the faith of their parents, only to come back to it when they mature.

On the plus side, I just read that over 25,000 people became Catholic on April 3, 2010 (Easter Vigil). That’s my family, plus 24,997 other people. Not too shabby for a Church that’s supposed to be failing!

 

[dukeenee]

This is something I think about quite often because I have two teens. They both went to Catholic elementary school and are in Catholic high school. I recently was an assistant in the older boy’s confirmation class. He was just confirmed last week. Personally, I don’t think half of the young people there truly understood Catholic doctrine. I was really saddened by the lack of understanding and the attitudes. I noticed that it was more often the students who either did not attend a Catholic school or were not home-schooled in a Catholic/Christian manner. So, I wonder…was it because their parents were not able to impart the teaching of the Church… was it sporadic attendance at Religious Ed…poor teaching in Religious Ed…a combination? And I don’t mean to say that ALL of the Catholic school kids were superior in understanding and ALL of the public school kids were clueless. It just seems to me that possibly parents are depending on religious teachers to impart the faith to their children. One girl told us the name she chose for Confirmation was “Jesus” and was upset when she was told she must pick the name of a saint she admired. She thought Jesus was a “really great saint”. Another student told about a wonderful church he was attending and it turned out the be an Assembly of God church- he didn’t know the difference between Catholic and Protestant! When I opened a discussion about the Real Presence only a few people knew what I was talking about…including some of the adults!!! The kids didn’t even pay much attention to the discussion- it really isn’t important to them. Most of them commented that they decided to go through with Confirmation so they wouldn’t have to do RCIA someday. Some of the teachers commented that at least they completed the classes and were confirmed. Hopefully they learned something and later on when they rediscover their catholic faith they might look back on the classes and remember some of what we tried to teach them. I wonder however, what a generation such as these kids will do to the Church? I don’t know if my experiences are unique- but I’m afraid not.

 

[Justin1982]

While it’s sad to read this information, it’s not just Catholics. Many young adults give up the faith of their parents, only to come back to it when they mature.

On the plus side, I just read that over 25,000 people became Catholic on April 3, 2010 (Easter Vigil). That’s my family, plus 24,997 other people. Not too shabby for a Church that’s supposed to be failing!

I’m in that number too. From the posts here it looks like we’ve all got a lot of work to do.

 

[Art321]

I’m in that number too. From the posts here it looks like we’ve all got a lot of work to do.

More than you know. I hope that my generation (The Millennials) will truly hear the voice of Chirst. It seems that one of the reasons that many are leaving are because they don’t know the beauty of their faith. Pope John Paul II did all that he could to show the world and the young catholics the faith and how to live it in a way that would be pleasing to God. Over time, I pray that everyone that has left the Church will return. I always hope this will be the case. I hope one day everyone that is outside of the faith will convert to the Catholic Church and live the faith for all of their days.

I know that I try to live my faith the best way that I can even though I have failed at times. I for one will never leave Chirst, for He is in the Catholic Church. I hope that through my example, many will return.

 

[Art321]

And there, we get back to our problem of poor Catechesis… Most ADULT Catholics know very little about the significant of the Mass, let alone their children… Good liturgical education is a must!

 

[miguel]

But proving what, beyond His existence? I have a number of friends who left the Church because they no longer believe in an imminent God, but consider Him wholly transcendent. One of the things that convinced them of that is because God doesn’t reveal his existence to us.

St Thomas Aquinas demonstrated how philosophical reasoning can be used to know with certainty that God exists. We can discern the creator in creation. But the creator didn’t just leave us to our reasoning. He also revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ. And the miracles of Jesus show God’s dominion over nature.

They tend to believe that God’s intent was just to get the ball rolling and no more.

This is agnosticism or Deism. It ignores Jesus Christ.

 

[Janks]

I think this article presumes that young Catholics care. As a young Catholic myself, I see that kids don’t care anymore. We were raised not to take our faith seriously, and it’s not just the Catholics. And because we were raised this way, many don’t care. They would rather live the life portrayed on The Hills or The City. Two things need to change: the environment in which we are raised and the type of religious education we receive.

 

[JamestheOlder]

You all have identified many problems in attracting young people to the Faith, plus keeping them engaged. All require answers that may outstrip the capabilities of today’s (and yesterday’s) parents who are uneducated in the Faith. Not only uneducated, but resistant and contemptuous of any Church “Adult Education”. From work in Adult Ed, RCIA and children’s Religious Ed programs, I know that Church leaders also have not found fail-safe programs.

But let me mention one Parish (not mine now) and their take on the subject. Caution: I don‘t know if all these developments still exist through continuing Pastors.

First, the Pastor and visiting priests (there were five weekend Masses) gave homilies which were not only instructive in the Faith, they were faith-filled. Occasionally, the couple of deacons scored as well.

Lesson: PRO: The homily can teach the Faith, as well as inspire.
CON: The deacons’ homilies were never reviewed, with expected spotty results.

Second, the Music Director was fully integrated into the Liturgy Committee, was trained in liturgical planning, and was a superb organist and pianist. But the real strength of this person was developing choirs of various groups: the Adult Choir, the Contemporary Choir (guitar Mass on Saturday night), and a Children’s Choir.

Lesson: PRO: These were ALL Novus Ordo Masses, and the music was liturgically correct. There were no hymns by Wesley, or Amazing Grace, but there was a range from TRUE Gregorian Chant for the Responsorial Psalm to St. Louis Jesuits’ music.
PRO: Those who would provide music MUST participate in the Liturgy (Planning) Committee, but experience and expertise should be given proper respect.
PRO: Different Masses can have different music and hymns, all appropriate for Catholic liturgy. Each can then appeal to differing tastes.
CON: This was a full-time job, and the Pastor, Parish Council and Finance Committee agreed to pay the prevailing rate, including insurance, for the region. Not every Parish can afford this experience, expertise and training.

Third, from the beginning of the Parish (I know; I was there), the Pastor established two Parish Organizations: The Men’s Club and the Women’s Guild and promoted activities for both. ALL men belonged to the men’s club; ALL women belonged to the guild. The men took care of all grounds maintenance; the women took care of all church upkeep. People stepped up to volunteer because there was a NEED. At Club or Guild meetings (always scheduled around a dinner), you would learn “something“ about the Faith, because there was a plan for that organization to promote its Catholic identity. Later, a loosely-organized Senior’s group was established around First Friday. Mass was scheduled at Noon, with lunch to follow.

Eventually, three other major organizations were started at the Parish with the solid backing of multiple Pastors: KofC, St. Vincent dePaul, and LifeTeen.
Of course, of the three, LifeTeen had the greatest impact on the “teens’ and “about-to-be-teens“ in the Parish. Again, the Parish and Pastor went into this program determined to succeed. A young couple were employed as full-time directors at a reasonable salary, with benefits. A band of experienced musicians practiced regularly and led music at Sunday night Mass….again, under the supervision of the Music Director, APPROPRIATE (and tune-full) music. My wife and I, both in our late fifties at the time, marveled at the adult and teen participation in this Mass, along with the reverence shown by the teens to the Blessed Sacrament……reverence which was reinforced by teaching and discussion in the LifeTeen sessions after Mass. In later years, we would return with young people from other parishes.

Lesson: PRO: While exclusive organizations are needed (SVDP, for example), and age-related (LifeTeen, Seniors) provide peer socialization, all-inclusive groups can provide more of a “family” atmosphere for the Parish.
CON: This all-inclusive attitude does not directly attract youth…except for special and seasonal “projects”, when they seem to join in whole-heartedly.

Fourth, there was a strict sacramental program, including Baptism classes (for the parents and god-parents), Confirmation preparation (including multiple interviews of the confirmandi), First Communion and Marriage. For the six-month Marriage Prep program, there were multiple meetings with priest/deacon and with a sponsor couple. FOCCUS was required.

RCIA was fully implemented, with members of the team educated in at least one North American Forum on the Catechumenate session. By “fully implemented”, I mean the candidates and catechumens were presented at differing Masses for ALL the Rites. Sponsors were trained in their own class before assignment to candidates/catechumens; many became life-long friends.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation was a regular subject in homilies and Confession was encouraged. Four evenings a year you can not find parking near this parish for all the people who attend seasonal Penance Services, where multiple priests hear confessions.

Lesson: PRO: Where Sacraments are taken seriously by the Pastor and Parish, parishioners tend to regard them seriously as well.
CON: There is no substitution for direct homilies, complementary education, and rather strict guidelines. Rules promulgated by the diocese and tribunal need to be used, especially for the Sacrament of Marriage. After much experience (and further tracking), FOCCUS, Sponsor Couple meetings and Engaged Encounter weekend should be a MINIMUM for marriage prep. Doesn’t always work out, but improves the odds greatly.

…to be continued

 

[JamestheOlder]

Continued…

Fifth, there was a conscious education effort for all ages. Besides diocesan-directed education programs for children (which included sacramental prep) there were spin-offs from the RCIA, like “Catholicism 101” for adults and teens, taught by RCIA team members.

Lesson: PRO: The direct supervision of the Pastor, priest, deacon over the content of the Religious Education Program is topped only by the experience, expertise and training the RE Director and Coordinators bring to their tasks. At this Parish, Sacramental preparation, LifeTeen and RCIA reported directly to the very-qualified RE Director, who reported to the Pastor. I think at one time there was a volunteer Board of Education, as well.
CON: In this diocese, “Director” carries strict educational requirements, and a published pay rate. You can have a “Coordinator” for less education and money, but frequently, the old maxim proves true: “You get what you (are able to) pay for.”

Sixth, because of the closeness and working relationships and social interaction among the parishioners, and with members of the clergy who served this parish, there was a feeling of “family”. This is hard to put into words, but I think it attracted the youth and the young couples to engage with this “family”. When pregnancy (i.e., baby showers), births and baptisms and confirmation become part of the celebration of Church, people feel “home“. When teens are asked for their help and their participation in the life of the Church, they feel ‘home“.

Lesson: PRO (only): The Parish “family” often strengthens the individual “family”. Peer pressure, peer socialization, peer example……it all counts for good.

And, finally, the was an almost “underground” evangelization effort going on. Members of LifeTeen participated in a survey of all households in the region (multiple parishes) inviting non-Catholics to worship at the nearby parishes. These were polite and happy youngsters, not the pushy type who often distribute “bible” tracts and rant from the street corners.

Also, RCIA was well advertised and people invited to “ask questions about the Catholic Church” with no further obligation. A young man studying (I suspect) for the Baptist ministry once engaged me on a one-to-one basis (which he had requested). No, I never saw him again, but he received a short and straight-forward education in Catholic teaching.

Lesson: PRO: Evangelization (“Good News”) must be at the heart of every parish….it is the major way for the parish to retain parishioners (including the young), and the only way to expand a parish. I think Karl Keating has a pamphlet on “Ten Ways to Evangelize” I was struck by the simplicity of one way: leave CA pamphlets (tracts) where people will read them.

Young people are attracted not only by proper religious education, but by example. It is good for us to type up our thoughts on this subject, but what do your kids and neighbor kids and friends’ kids see YOU (and ME) do? My favorite quote is from Francis of Assisi: “Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.“

Suggestions:

We go to Bible classes.
We join St. Vincent dePaul parish conferences.
We participate in RCIA, even as a sponsor.
We (learn first, then) teach CCD.
We volunteer for Parish tasks.
We go to Parish social functions.
Heck, we go to Parish devotions.
We go to Confession.
We tell the “Good News”

Sorry for the length, God bless you all!

 

[TurboVW]

Eventually, three other major organizations were started at the Parish with the solid backing of multiple Pastors: KofC, St. Vincent dePaul, and LifeTeen.
Of course, of the three, LifeTeen had the greatest impact on the “teens’ and “about-to-be-teens“ in the Parish. Again, the Parish and Pastor went into this program determined to succeed. A young couple were employed as full-time directors at a reasonable salary, with benefits. A band of experienced musicians practiced regularly and led music at Sunday night Mass….again, under the supervision of the Music Director, APPROPRIATE (and tune-full) music. My wife and I, both in our late fifties at the time, marveled at the adult and teen participation in this Mass, along with the reverence shown by the teens to the Blessed Sacrament……reverence which was reinforced by teaching and discussion in the LifeTeen sessions after Mass. In later years, we would return with young people from other parishes.

LifeTeen - that’s a separate discussion in itself. I personally am not for this program (even though as a teen not very long ago, I wish there was something for teens in my parish beyond putting canned food in boxes after school).

A poster a few posts back wrote about young adults not caring anymore. I also touched upon that when I mentioned earlier many of my peers giving into societal pressure and doing things they KNOW do not align with Catholic beliefs.

We’re in a culture of moral relativism and cafeteria Catholics. From my days at a Catholic college recently, it was almost encouraged for us to pick and choose what to believe in the Catholic faith. I had plenty of discussions with “progressive” Catholic professors who’d put down orthodox Catholicism and piety in front of the class…

When I review my peers (people under 30), you’ll see a definite rejection of anything traditional. For them, religion is for uptight octogenarians out of touch with modern society. My age group stresses non-conformity; if someone my age is religious we’re automatically judged as weak-minded, a zealot, blinded to social problems and even a Republican. If a young adult is a practicing Catholic, that person is considered by her peers not just conservative politically but also against many popular causes: science, womens’ reproductive rights, developing nations, sexual orientation and separation between church and state. You’re just not with the “in crowd” if you’re a Catholic.

For the 25 years I’ve been alive, I’ve heard from my peers, the media and even in schools that I should “believe what I want to believe,” but never told the Catholic church is the right thing to follow (even in Catholic schools).

 

[js_192]

Two things need to change: the environment in which we are raised and the type of religious education we receive.

I agree about that religious education point. Confirmation classes seriously need re-form.