Why young Catholics are leaving the Church

[Roy5]

Miguel

A few thoughts.

1. Many Catholic (and other) youth think that to be a Christian you have to accept teachings that they can’t honestly accept. Take the Bible. Did God actually regret that he had created humankind, then drown everybody but Noah’s family? What about God commanding Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of Jericho and telling Saul that he must kill every Amalekite? And what about Jesus sending devils inot pigs and feeding 5000+ with a few loaves and fishes? Earlier generations could believe such stories but many younger people can’t. It conflicts too much with their idealism, their sense of justice, and the ability to believe what they feel is unreasonable and/or irrational. Perhaps these are not valid reasons, but that’s the way it is.
2. Transubstantiation. Polls have shown that the majority of Catholics don’t accept this teaching literally. They may treasure the Eucharist as a symbol of Christ’s presence among us, but the doctrine that through a prayer of consecration by a priest the elements undergo substantive change comes across as too medieval (or superstitious) for millions. Again, a reality.
3. As for moral teachings, it isn’t rules against theft, adultery or murder that the youth object to. Young married couples (and older ones, too), regardless of their faith, rely on artificial birth control to plan their families. They don’t buy the notion that it’s a sin to enjoy marital relations while guarding against conception. After all, some say, the approved method of birth control has the same goal - prevent conception - so, what’s the big deal? They also seem to have much more sympathy for gays and lesbians than earlier generations. Since gays have come out of the closet, most of them have gay friends, neighbors, etc. and find it difficult to stand in judgment. Live and let live" is a widespread philosophy, as long as they are consenting adults who do not prey on others. Many of tehse same people were scandalized, however, by gay priests who exploited altar boys and other youth.

Okay, we may bemoan some of these realities, but there they are. The question is: why young Catholics are leaving the church and these are some of the reasons. Interestingly, some have gone to evangelical Protestant churches, which share many of the same strict moral values. In these instances, it’s more difficult to understand. My guess would be that many evangelical churches have a more exciting service (in their view). Often, for example, the first 30 minutes or so can resemble a rock concert. Folk masses help keep many youth at church.

 

[jenkiedad]

Miguel

Interestingly, some have gone to evangelical Protestant churches, which share many of the same strict moral values. In these instances, it’s more difficult to understand. My guess would be that many evangelical churches have a more exciting service (in their view). Often, for example, the first 30 minutes or so can resemble a rock concert. Folk masses help keep many youth at church.

I will leave to others to address your other points, but the reason these “evangelical Protestant churches” are successul is that they have an active Youth Ministry that actively involves the young people and seeks their participation.

 

[JamestheOlder]

I will leave to others to address your other points, but the reason these “evangelical Protestant churches” are successul is that they have an active Youth Ministry that actively involves the young people and seeks their participation.

Right on the mark! This is not only true for our youth, but the so-called Mega-size Community Churches do an excellent job of greeting and remembering people who come to their services. What do we have (generally)? Someone at the entrance handing out missalettes; sometimes without even a “Good Morning”. We are currently observing a “test” at our present parish…we’ve been here, attending weekly Mass since November; so far only one lady (the cashier for a Friday night fish fry in Lent) has taken the effort to greet us…outside of the occasional “GM” from the proffer of missalettes.

Peace.
“old duck”

 

[Christopher68]

Let me take a stab at why so many Catholic youth leave the church.

1. Secular influence. The world isn’t friendly to traditional religion of any sort.
2. Intellectual honesty. Millions of Christians of all kinds have trouble believing some of the doctrines and/or Biblical stories (or both) that are basic to the Church. Adam and Eve, for example. What young people learn in science makes the story of Adam and Eve an insult to their intelligence.
3. Superstitions. Many youth come to regard various teachings of the church as superstitions. Take transubstantiation. The idea that a prayer by a priest turns bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Jesus strikes many as medieval, on a par with belief in ghosts and witches.
4. Mass. It varies, of course, as many priests have charisma, but to many mass is boring, partly because it seems repetitious - the same pattern week after week.
5. Moral teachings. Many youth are sympathetic to gays, even approve of gay marriage, believe in artificial birth control, etc. This represents the sentiment that dominates among young people generally.
6. Rebellion. There is a normal rebellion among youth. Some return to the church for their weddings, then with babies ot be baptized.
7. Parochial school. When I asked one woman why she no longer attended mass, she answered simply that she had gone to parochial school and her experience was a bad one.
8. Confession. Many youth come to believe that their personal lives are not the business of a priest. They regard this as an attempt of the church to control their lives and resent it.
9. Media. Some programs that are especially popular among youth - South Park, for example - make fun of religion in general and influence young viewers.
10. An affront. Somewhere along the way a priest or some other church leader says something that a particular youth finds offensive, perhaps hurtful. This may be spoken to that young person to his/her face, or maybe in a homily.

That’s all, folks!

Roy,

You have written an excellent summation, in my opinion. I would suggest that points number 5 and number 8 are among the most common reasons.

The only additional point I would make is regarding the abuse scandals. Using the USA as an example, many young adults of today likely learned of the abuse scandals at an age when they were in their formative years and just really starting to learn about their faith in greater detail. Sadly, one of their earliest recollections is now the abuse scandals, and I sense that has left many young adults with a jaded sense of their faith. I think this also has some correlation to your point number 8 from above, and their lack of any desire to confess to a priest.

 

[miguel]

Miguel

A few thoughts.

1. Many Catholic (and other) youth think that to be a Christian you have to accept teachings that they can’t honestly accept. Take the Bible. Did God actually regret that he had created humankind, then drown everybody but Noah’s family? What about God commanding Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of Jericho and telling Saul that he must kill every Amalekite? And what about Jesus sending devils inot pigs and feeding 5000+ with a few loaves and fishes? Earlier generations could believe such stories but many younger people can’t. It conflicts too much with their idealism, their sense of justice, and the ability to believe what they feel is unreasonable and/or irrational. Perhaps these are not valid reasons, but that’s the way it is.
2. Transubstantiation. Polls have shown that the majority of Catholics don’t accept this teaching literally. They may treasure the Eucharist as a symbol of Christ’s presence among us, but the doctrine that through a prayer of consecration by a priest the elements undergo substantive change comes across as too medieval (or superstitious) for millions. Again, a reality.
3. As for moral teachings, it isn’t rules against theft, adultery or murder that the youth object to. Young married couples (and older ones, too), regardless of their faith, rely on artificial birth control to plan their families. They don’t buy the notion that it’s a sin to enjoy marital relations while guarding against conception. After all, some say, the approved method of birth control has the same goal - prevent conception - so, what’s the big deal? They also seem to have much more sympathy for gays and lesbians than earlier generations. Since gays have come out of the closet, most of them have gay friends, neighbors, etc. and find it difficult to stand in judgment. Live and let live" is a widespread philosophy, as long as they are consenting adults who do not prey on others…

Appreciate the response Roy. We also need to pray that God replaces their skepticism and moral relativism with faith. “Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter into it.” (Mark 10:15)

 

[miguel]

1. As for moral teachings, it isn’t rules against theft, adultery or murder that the youth object to. Young married couples (and older ones, too), regardless of their faith, rely on artificial birth control to plan their families. They don’t buy the notion that it’s a sin to enjoy marital relations while guarding against conception. After all, some say, the approved method of birth control has the same goal - prevent conception - so, what’s the big deal?

You may or may not be aware of this Roy. The term contraceptive is really a misnomer when applied to some of these methods. The IUD (intrauterine device) prevents implantation of the embryo. The PILL is contraceptive to the extent that it suppresses ovulation. But the suppression of ovulation isn’t foolproof. Should ovulation and conception inadvertantly occur, the PILL also thins the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation of the embryo. So we’re really talking about abortion here.

 

[jdnation]

As a young person myself who once might’ve been in danger of slipping away from the faith and also knowing young people who have left the faith, the reasons for this are as follows:

1. No proper education about Catholicism. CATHOLIC SCHOOLS ARE NOT TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN WELL! Kids don’t know what makes the Catholic Church different from Protestantism. Sure they know who the Pope is, but so what? What makes the Pope so special than say the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Dali lama?
2. Catholic Schools are teaching your children that the Bible cannot be trusted. That it is filled with errors and contradictions! That naturalistic Evolution is unbiased science and takes priority over the Creation account. That we are evolved from ape like ancestors. Not special acts of creation. Thus the Biblical foundation is gone.
3. People still believe that the Catholic Church persecuted Galileo and other scientists out of superstition and because of the Bible, that they see as an unscientific and worthless error filled book full of condemnations. People don’t know proper history regarding the Inquisition, the Crusades or the Index. They really do believe in anti-Catholic caricatures of the Church and false historic revisionism. As far as they know the Catholic Church is responsible for all the world’s worst atrocities.
4. Catholic instructors are terrible and can give no solid reasons as to why homosexuality and abortion are wrong. Without a biblical foundation or any education on what makes the Catholic Church Catholic, they are unable to explain these things.
5. Catholic Schools teach no apologetics, and teach Christianity only vaguely, teach philosophy only seen through naturalism and secularism, emphasize social justice and being a nice person and doing good things like helping poor people over essentials such as sin and salvation and Catholic ethics. Also we learn about other religions, but never why they are wrong, but rather that they are just the same as Christianity and should be tolerated equally. They are taught vague notions of love, nothing about different sorts of love, nothing of the difference between eros and agape. Never about love in relation between man and God. Love is a vague and idolized argument that can justify anything so long as ‘feelings of love’ are present. Love is always emphasized, but never God. And love can literally be defined however you want to.
6. From my experience Catholic Schools are failing your children and are breeding grounds for religious indifference, moral relativity, and indiscipline. Also there are some teachers, principles etc. in Catholic Schools who are liberal, hate the faith and morality and even discourage visiting priests from teaching your children. There are wolves amongst the sheep.
7. School counselors and discipline use naturalistic psychology to approach students with difficulties. Personal sin and responsibility are de-emphasized for troublesome students, frankly they rarely come into the picture. but this is larger than simply schools, and cover the general attitude of the Population as a whole. There is no emphasis on spiritual treatment for people’s depressions, and negative feelings. More is placed on outward things. Blame is redirected. Any explanation will do so long as we don’t see ourselves as sinners. So long as we’re nice and don’t hurt anyone else, we are perfect, and since our sins can be blamed on evolutionary explanations, on our parents and our upbringing, on the Church that makes us feel guilty. In order to free ourselves of guilty feelings we need to rid ourselves of things that make us feel guilty. Hence no need for the Church or God. Bishop Fulton Sheen expresses all this well in his book Peace of Soul.
8. Most important of all, most kids are not taught by their parents who think that the catholic Schools will take care of that. Well, as I described above, I wouldn’t count on Catholic Schools. I owe NOTHING to Catholic elementary of high schools for encouraging me about my faith. It is chiefly thanks to my grandparents and religious aunts and uncles and other family members, but I grew up in India and am an immigrant, so we were more involved in our faith. But coming to Canada and attending schools here and growing up in Canada was slowly turning me away. There’s just something about life in the West that seems to hinder one from having time to study their faith and reflect inwardly. Maybe its the consumer culture and the many great distractions and pleasures that many can afford and in their comfort forget about God and their need due to materialism. But this is just my opinion.

 

[jdnation]

It’s not just Catholics having problems. The protestants are also discovering reasons why many young people are leaving their Churchs, and it’s not for Catholicism. In fact they have discovered that children who attend Sunday schools are more likely to leave the faith than children who don’t. And it is because of poor instruction, and no apologetics. Your teachers and instructors likely don’t know what the heck they are talking about. It’s simply curriculum. Also government and school policies are also pro-evolution, pro-secularist and do impose bad curriculum and enforce stupid things upon schools.

You can find the results of Protestant research into this issue in the following videos that are highly informative:
answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/state-of-the-nation
answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/state-of-the-nation-2/state-of-the-nation-2

If you want your children to receive proper Catholic educations, petition your schools to introduce good religious instruction. Not Bible stories and secular opinions about the Bible. Teach good Bible Apologetics. Demonstrate its inerrancy. Teach the history of the Church! Teach about papal infalliability. Have your history classes teach about the Inquisition, about the Church and Pius XII’s role in WWII and throughout other developments in the world with the French Revolution to Communism etc. etc… Teach the critical views of Darwinian evolution, touch upon Intelligent Design and Biblical Creationism, teach about the faiths of the greatest scientists, about the clergy and Church’s role in scientific development. Have the Christian and Catholic worldview permeate the entirety of their education from history to philosophy to science, to geography, math, everything has an opportunity to show the glory of God! But no! We compartmentalize that Christianity and Catholicism can only be in the religion class once a week, taught for two years, then generalities about World Religion and no more need for it anymore.

And if the schools refuse to do it, then parents need to make the effort themselves. What good will getting them to college and university do if they are going to hell? In anything the opposition against their faith will be found in abundance at colleges and universities, and Catholic Schools are going to send them in unprepared. Seeds thrown on rocky ground for the birds and scavengers to eat, houses built on sand…

The Bible told us that all it took was one single negligent generation of parents who did not instruct their children to have the following generation completely turn away from the Lord and into sin. Well, it’s happening again!

Also the Church itself is failing to do its job. I try to go for Confession every week. But the priest is just never there for confession. I have to literally go out of my way in the middle of the week to another Church further away just to receive confession!!! Though I can’t really blame the priest as sometimes I see priests that do make an effort to show up for confession, but nobody bothers to go.

There is a lack of fire in the souls of bishops and priests from what I’ve observed. I can’t judge and I don’t know the half of much, but this is a perceived problem. There is no drive. There are only a few priests that I can recall who really have it. I guess a lot of priests I know are old and can’t do what they could’ve done were they younger. but this is a problem.

Also many priests suffer form what old fogies also do. They’re out of touch with the youth. For example let’s take videogames. For most parents and even priests, such things are evil. And while there are a good many videogames that really can be classified as bad influences, to make blanket statements like that about things young people like, doesn’t help. So in a way, there is a need for some progressiveness and to get with the times. Finding out what the kids are interested in and how they work today can go a long way to finding avenues to reach out to them and build community.

So technically every one of us is at fault in one way or another for what is happening. We need more courage and also the gift of proper discernment in approaching young people and the things going on in their lives, which can be more overwhelming than we can imagine. It is something that takes openness, discipline, love and understanding.

 

[TurboVW]

There is a lack of fire in the souls of bishops and priests from what I’ve observed. I can’t judge and I don’t know the half of much, but this is a perceived problem. There is no drive. There are only a few priests that I can recall who really have it. I guess a lot of priests I know are old and can’t do what they could’ve done were they younger. but this is a problem.

Also many priests suffer form what old fogies also do. They’re out of touch with the youth. For example let’s take videogames. For most parents and even priests, such things are evil. And while there are a good many videogames that really can be classified as bad influences, to make blanket statements like that about things young people like, doesn’t help. So in a way, there is a need for some progressiveness and to get with the times. Finding out what the kids are interested in and how they work today can go a long way to finding avenues to reach out to them and build community.

So technically every one of us is at fault in one way or another for what is happening. We need more courage and also the gift of proper discernment in approaching young people and the things going on in their lives, which can be more overwhelming than we can imagine. It is something that takes openness, discipline, love and understanding.

You’re right about the discipline. However, today’s society doesn’t encourage any kind of self-restraint or sacrifice. For example, many incoming college freshmen go away to school as good Catholics, only to stumble along the way by giving into an increasingly hedonistic and self-abusing lifestyle. I’m not perfect either, but it’s totally neglecting the Church for the sake of a cheap, fast and empty way of living.

Priests also can be out of touch, but it’s not about the age of the priest at times. I’ve known many priests under 35 who try to push the singy-songy, flower-power Catholicism that was popular in the past.

Guitars and charismatic faith isn’t exactly wrong, but I’ve seen a general shift among my peers who DIDN’T fall away to appreciate more traditional and substantial aspects of the Catholic faith. Attitudes are changing, and soft emotions and vague references about love aren’t holding young Catholics these days.

The Catholic church needs strong leaders everywhere to help bring guidance and security to the faith. Usually the congregation has little to do with the presider of the Mass, but it would be great to have more that embody strong leadership qualities and aren’t afraid to show it (however, that’s another discussion in itself). Otherwise, a lot of the basic pillars of our faith are left open to interpretation by catechists who aren’t well-versed (or in agreement) with our Church’s teachings.

 

[RedBert]

Children /youth leave church because their father did not attend
:
Men, Children and Church Attendance

Mother and Father attend church regularly
33% of their children will end up attending church regularly
41% of their children will end up attending church irregularly
25% of their children will end up not attending at all

Mother attends church regularly. Father attends church irregularly.
3% of their children will end up attending church regularly
59% of their children will end up attending church irregularly
38% of their children will end up not attending at all

Mother attends church regularly. Father does not attend church at all.
2% of their children will end up attending church regularly
37% of their children will end up attending church irregularly
60% of their children will end up not attending at all

Father attends church regularly. Mother attends church irregularly.
38% of their children will end up attending church regularly
37% of their children will end up attending church irregularly
26% of their children will end up not attending at all

Father attends church regularly. Mother does not attend church at all.
44% of their children will end up attending church regularly
22% of their children will end up attending church irregularly:

ironsharpensiron.net/files/stats_mens_church_attendance.pdf

the question is : why aren’t the men coming to church?

• The typical U.S. Congregation draws an adult crowd that’s 61% female, 39% male. This gender gap shows up in all age categories.

• On any given Sunday there are 13 million more adult women than men in America’s churches.

• This Sunday almost 25 percent of married, churchgoing women will worship without their husbands.

• Midweek activities often draw 70 to 80 percent female participants.

• The majority of church employees are women (except for ordained clergy, who are overwhelmingly male).

• Over 70 percent of the boys who are being raised in church will abandon it during their teens and twenties. Many of these boys will never return.

• More than 90 percent of American men believe in God, and five out of six call themselves Christians. But only two out of six attend church on a given Sunday. The average man accepts the reality of Jesus Christ, but fails to see any value in going to church.

• Churches overseas report gender gaps of up to 9 women for every adult man in attendance.
• Christian universities are becoming convents. The typical Christian college in the U.S. enrolls almost 2 women for every 1 man.

• Fewer than 10% of U.S. churches are able to establish or maintain a vibrant men’s ministry.

 

[jdnation]

the question is : why aren’t the men coming to church?

This is an interesting topic that has been puzzling the Church and other Christian organizations for the longest time.

There’s in interesting book that you can read online here. I’m currently going through it myself. It is trying to answer the very question as to why men are turning away from the Christian faith. It isn’t because men dislike religion, after all Islam is a religion that is predominantly male… Neither was this an issue with Judaism or early Christianity. So there might be something about Christianity today that is perceived to be more feminine…

The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity
crosslandfoundation.org/church-impotent.htm

If you were to ask my opinion I’d say that it is chiefly because the Church today as well as Catholic education fails to deliver things that appeal to men. Topics of sermons etc. are always about general love or feelings, peace and non violence and mushy stuff. And there’s nothing wrong with those things, but what about the strong emphasis on the things brave men of the Church had to struggle to confront in the early Christian era? Where are the calls to duty and to be Christian soldier for Christ? In our day and age, peace is emphasized and this is good. But at the same time we’ve eliminated word and phrases that appeal to masculinity, about strength and preparedness and stern discipline. About hierarchies and comman structures that the Church follows.

In our feminized world, husbands are no longer seen to be the heads of the household, to suggest as much makes one out to be some kind of bigot. It is not really an issue just for the Church, but society at large. Men as a whole are compared to the bad examples of a few men. Thus they no longer have a place to go. Men also are more afraid of relationships and commitments to women, given high divorce rates, fears about being taken advantage of by women, fears of their own inadequacies to look after a family. Many are more comfortable with available pornography than they are with being with a real woman precisely because of insecurities about divorce and family break downs. Thus with the family and marriage constantly disparaged, when they are called to be in the Church, that is to be with the bride of Christ, they will feel uncomfortable of this role.

 

[Knight_Crusader]

I have read this article and many of the replies and wish I’d joined the forum earlier.

My opinion is that young people have these problems:

(1) the quality of preaching is very poor and is not focused enough on the Bible. Forget the esoteric nonsense and focus on the Bible and educate the parish – link the Old Testament and New Testament readings. Really inform and inspire the parish with the Word.

(2) too many ministries are focused other than on deepening religious knowledge. We have too few Bible studies and too much social justice etc. There is nothing wrong with social justice but it is less important than our relationship with God and understanding His role in our lives.

(3) for young men, modern Catholicism emphasises too many female ideals like “relationships” and “sharing” … these are good things but men are wired completely differently from women. Because of these feminine ideas, many young men find Christianity (including Catholicism) too female orientated and rather lame. This is amazing given how tough the Old Testament warriors like Abraham, Moses, Joshua and the judges were. As a Catholic man, I often feel that I am a minority because I am not into all the touchy-feely hand-holding nonsense.

Sorry but our Church has some real problems with how the message is delivered. Our message is the BEST one. But surely we can do better.

 

[Karamazov]

(3) for young men, modern Catholicism emphasises too many female ideals like “relationships” and “sharing” … these are good things but men are wired completely differently from women. Because of these feminine ideas, many young men find Christianity (including Catholicism) too female orientated and rather lame. This is amazing given how tough the Old Testament warriors like Abraham, Moses, Joshua and the judges were. As a Catholic man, I often feel that I am a minority because I am not into all the touchy-feely hand-holding nonsense.

Sorry but our Church has some real problems with how the message is delivered. Our message is the BEST one. But surely we can do better.

Your third point is excellent. I read an article somewhere several years ago that explained why young men were leaving churches (it was a Protestant study). The primary reason given was that the young men deemed the church services as too oriented towards females; lots of singing, relationship oriented material, poor quality sermons that men couldn’t relate to, etc.

This is why I got tired of church myself and don’t go any more. I’m still a Christian but I get more “meat” studying and reading for myself than I ever did from the church. The last one I went to was a Pentecostal about 5 or so years ago and, although the music was a bit better than some others I’ve been to, the sermons were bland and lacked depth (and I discovered later that the Pastor was actually getting them from an online web service - paid subscription - that gave sermon outlines and ideas).

I’ve never actually been to Mass before and know very little about Catholicism, so I can’t comment on Catholic services. But Protestant ones, unless you go to a megachurch with rock star style bands and a social Gospel that will tell you God wants to make you stinking rich, are pretty dull.

 

[Cristiano]

…(2) too many ministries are focused other than on deepening religious knowledge. We have too few Bible studies and too much social justice etc. There is nothing wrong with social justice but it is less important than our relationship with God and understanding His role in our lives…

I think that you are way off mark with this one. How can you say that we have “too much social justice”? How can you say that it is less important than our relationship with God? Social justice is an integral part of our relationship with God, and you cannot separate from it. Social justice is based on and mandate by the works of mercy that we have to do to show our faith and accept the salvific role of Jesus Christ.

A lot of ministries are devoted to social justice because that requires a lot of infrastructure in order to deliver the physical results. Social justice ministries are about evangelization and spiritual works of mercy in conjunction with the corporal ones. They are for the good of others, not for our immediate needs.

We do not need less social justice work, but I completely agree with you that we need much more educational work. I would add that we need much more orthodox educational work.

 

[Rawb]

I think that you are way off mark with this one. How can you say that we have “too much social justice”? How can you say that it is less important than our relationship with God? Social justice is an integral part of our relationship with God, and you cannot separate from it. Social justice is based on and mandate by the works of mercy that we have to do to show our faith and accept the salvific role of Jesus Christ.

A lot of ministries are devoted to social justice because that requires a lot of infrastructure in order to deliver the physical results. Social justice ministries are about evangelization and spiritual works of mercy in conjunction with the corporal ones. They are for the good of others, not for our immediate needs.

We do not need less social justice work, but I completely agree with you that we need much more educational work. I would add that we need much more orthodox educational work.

That’s what social justice ministries *should *be. What they often are, in practice, are just, well, social justice. There’s no mention of God (not only to those who are being helped, but among the group doing the help), no spiritual development, no realization that this is being done to strengthen one’s faith or evangelize or obey God’s commands. People just help, and go. That’s all very nice, but it doesn’t fulfill it’s ultimate purpose.

A social justice ministry should not serve only the community but it’s members. It should involve prayer, the Mass, Bible study, the rosary, book study, study on the lives of the saints, *something *so that it actually earns that ‘ministry’ part in it’s title. Instead they often treat God as an unnecessary addition. This results in people wondering why, if this is what The Church is for, they need The Church.

 

[Cristiano]

…A social justice ministry should not serve only the community but it’s members. It should involve prayer, the Mass, Bible study, the rosary, book study, study on the lives of the saints, *something *so that it actually earns that ‘ministry’ part in it’s title. Instead they often treat God as an unnecessary addition. This results in people wondering why, if this is what The Church is for, they need The Church.

I think that you too are mixing things up. If we look at the “Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church” we can see what fits under the label of social justice. Ministry comes from the Latin “minister” that means subordinate, servant, attendant, assistant.

Mass, Lectio Divina, rosary etc. are important and necessary parts of the life of a Catholic, but they are not an immediate part of a social justice ministry. The social ministry is to open the hearts of the recipients in order to bring them more into the Church.

For example a case of social ministry that would be a great combination is to make sure that poor people that do not have transportation still have the capability of attending Mass in a comfortable manner. I live in a region where a large community of people have problems with attending Mass because of the poor public transportation on Sundays. That really bug the heck out of me.

I think that one mistake that people in social ministries could do out of P.C. is that they do not acknowledge that they do that to give glory to God, especially when they are given the opportunity to do so.

 

[fons_vitae]

And, I think even more importantly, because Mass is boring… In fact, the boredom of the Mass actually (very briefly) tempted me toward the prebyterian denomination before I came to my sense, thank God. I wasn’t very well versed in my faith at the time. So I can see how young Catholics who don’t fully understand the faith can be tempted to leave the Church.

I’m sorry, but as someone who stumbled into the Church through Anglo-Catholicism, I never understand why a particular Protestant denomination’s bare-bones service speaks to the soul more clearly than a Mass. At least in the Mass the homily doesn’t take an hour and a half. :yawn:

 

[Rawb]

For example a case of social ministry that would be a great combination is to make sure that poor people that do not have transportation still have the capability of attending Mass in a comfortable manner. I live in a region where a large community of people have problems with attending Mass because of the poor public transportation on Sundays. That really bug the heck out of me.

But see, that involves Mass.

I don’t mean a majority of the time should be taken up by spiritual matters. I mean that there should be an aspect of that within such ministries, and sometimes there is not.

For example, say that a group decides they’re going to start volunteering at a soup kitchen. They could handle that one of two ways. In one way they go to the soup kitchen, volunteer, then leave. They go again and again over several weeks. That’s great, but it’s missing something.

The second way: They show up at the soup kitchen. Before going in they pray as a group for the people they’re serving and for one another. They go and serve food. Once a month they attend Mass together.

In the second scenario the spiritual aspects don’t take up very much time, but they’re a huge component, IMO. Atheists could just as happily join in the first group, but the second helps re-focus their purpose on God.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I do think those who talked about “feminization” in the Church have a point. It isn’t that femininity is unwelcome. After all, look at all the Blessed Mothers and St. Thereses, etc in the old cathedrals.

I think maybe it’s more a matter of boys and men having no particular role anymore except in the priesthood and even that is under constant attack.

Like it or not, boys and men are drawn to things peculiar to them, and rarely join in anything they perceive as “female activities”. I remember at our parish when the pastor initiated girl servers, all the boys quit. All of a sudden, serving was like a lot of things of school age children. “Let the girls do it.” It was no longer a “boy” role. Younger boys, who look up to older boys, no longer saw the older boys serving. But it was worse than that. My own son, who was a dedicated server, had a problem with the “unisex” garb that replaced the priest-like cassocks and surplices. “I don’t want to dress up like a girl” was his comment. So he quit serving.

My grandsons do serve, but only if they can serve together (their number precludes girl servers). Interestingly, since we’re sort of in two parishes, they prefer serving in the one that requires more of them. The priest there is from Poland and is very exacting and requires a lot more disciplined movements on the part of the servers. In the other parish, the servers are pretty much useless and don’t do much of anything.

I recall the extremely exacting role of server from when I was a kid. There was something abuot that, and about aspiring to serve with the older boys, bearing up under their critical eyes and wanting to show them we could “make it”, and wearing that priest-like clothing. I remember being told, then, that the original purpose of altar boys (men in the early Church) was to protect the priest in case hostile pagans attacked. While (we were told) the likelihood of our having to protect the priest and the Holy Eucharist against attack was small, it was still our duty, like sentries at our posts, to leap into the breach if it came to it. Heady stuff for a little boy, and just exactly the kind of thing that engages one’s mind.

But I’m a dinosaur, of course. So don’t mind me.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hate to follow myself, but let me add this.

Grandparents can also have a role. The men in my extended family all go to Mass. But sometimes I take the kids myself, just to show them an old man can be devoted to the Mass as well. I started the practice of taking the girls to the “Blessed Mother’s side” to light vigil lights (blue) and kneel together to say a prayer for their intentions, then taking the boys to “Christ’s side” to light vigil lights (red) to do the same. Now, they do it without being directed.

The boys don’t hate the girls or the girls hate the boys, but I think both like having their own “roles” that are peculiar to them; even such a small thing as the above.