WhyMe and others: Can you Be Catholic and LDS at the same time?

[why_me]

Why me, if you were Catholic, you’d respect the fact that you cannot take communion whilst in a state of mortal sin. To do so constitutes a sacrilige.

Do you attend mass every Sunday, out of curiousity?

PS- Just because there are a lot of bad Catholics who take communion in a state of mortal sin, that doesn’t give you an excuse to commit a sacrilige too.

I attend mass every sunday and sometimes during the week too. Not to mention an adoration or two with the nuns. But the question remains: were the nuns surrounding saint faustina and who were treating her badly believing catholics? And what is a believing catholic?

 

[why_me]

You are doing okay as far as I am concerned, whichever church you decide to support, as long as you do so with fairness and reason, which I think you are doing.

And of course you do know why I could never deny that witness I had of the book of mormon? And I do think our canonical friend can’t either.

 

[zerinus]

No one has to determine whether the act was committed or not. That is what excommunication latae sententiae means!!! Committing the act automatically confers the excommunication in this situation.

That is a contradiction, latae sententiae or no latae sententiae. I can’t believe that you are saying that. If the act has not been committed, no penalty applies, latae sententiae or no latae sententiae. The penalty is only applicable if the act has been committed. If no one has to determine if the act has been committed, or if no one can determine if the act has been committed, or if it is not possible to know if the act has been committed, how can the penalty be made applicable to anyone? And how do you know that Why Me is a heretic?

 

[zerinus]

The act of heresy or apostasy doesn’t need to be known by anyone or determined by anyone for latae sententiae excommunication to occur.

So how do you know that Why Me is a heretic, and automatically exed?

 

[zerinus]

**
The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense**,” (CCC 2272*) and does not require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority*.

catholicplanet.com/articles/article78.htm

So how do you determine that Why Me is a heretic and automatically exed? And how come you have so much “occult” information about Why Me that his own church doesn’t?

 

[zerinus]

Sorry zerinus, but your false view of latae sententiae excommunication is not supported by the Catholic Encyclopedia and my fellow Catholics, and I trust those opinions more than yours.

Your views amount to 2+2=5, and there is no encyclopedia on earth that supports that.

 

[why_me]

So how do you determine that Why Me is a heretic and automatically exed? And how come you have so much “occult” information about Why Me that his own church doesn’t?

And of course, in Latin America if the catholic church would automatically ex all catholics who join the mormons or the penecostals, the church’s paperwork would be enormous. And if these people return to the fold the backlog for readmission would be long. But the catholic church has no way to ex these members unless the people ask for it. And I do believe that they would be unwilling to do so.

The most that would happen is that the people involved may need to renounce their former religion to return to the faith. But I think that most would just return without fanfare as if they never left.

 

[why_me]

And of course, all are silent about Gottle’s problem with jews being catholic and yet not giving up their attendence at the jewish temple.

FindArticles.com. 08 Aug, 2009. findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_13_45/ai_n31635337/

 

[Religio71]

I attend mass every sunday and sometimes during the week too. Not to mention an adoration or two with the nuns. But the question remains: were the nuns surrounding saint faustina and who were treating her badly believing catholics? And what is a believing catholic?

So you believe in the Real Presence, which Mormons do not?

 

[Religio71]

And of course, in Latin America if the catholic church would automatically ex all catholics who join the mormons or the penecostals, the church’s paperwork would be enormous. And if these people return to the fold the backlog for readmission would be long. But the catholic church has no way to ex these members unless the people ask for it. And I do believe that they would be unwilling to do so.

The most that would happen is that the people involved may need to renounce their former religion to return to the faith. But I think that most would just return without fanfare as if they never left.

And thus you don’t understand latae sententiae excommunication. The Church doesn’t need to “do” anything.

If these people decide to come back to the Church, they must go to confession and give a Profession of Faith.

 

[Religio71]

Your views amount to 2+2=5, and there is no encyclopedia on earth that supports that.

Sorry, we won’t go to a Mormon to have latae sententiae explained.

 

[querying]

I attend mass every sunday and sometimes during the week too. Not to mention an adoration or two with the nuns. But the question remains: were the nuns surrounding saint faustina and who were treating her badly believing catholics? And what is a believing catholic?

From my understanding, sins of envy and unkindness may not qualify as “mortal sin”, but certainly venial sins.

And again, their sins does not give you a reason to commit sins yourself and present yourself for communion whilst in a state of mortal sin.

If you held the Catholic Church in high esteem, as you claim to, you’d abide by her rules, and not your fallible rationalisation.

And a believing Catholic is someone who practices the faith fully with no reservation. That is not you, however.

And this is coming from a fallen Catholic, who at least had the common decency to not present myself for communion for over a year, whilst I was attending mass only sporadically.

Give it up already.

 

[Religio71]

That is a contradiction, latae sententiae or no latae sententiae. I can’t believe that you are saying that. If the act has not been committed, no penalty applies, latae sententiae or no latae sententiae. The penalty is only applicable if the act has been committed. If no one has to determine if the act has been committed, or if no one can determine if the act has been committed, or if it is not possible to know if the act has been committed, how can the penalty be made applicable to anyone? And how do you know that Why Me is a heretic?

Firstly, why me is correctly an apostate, by joining a false church. This is automatic latae sententiae excommunication, and he cannot faithfully partake in Catholic sacraments.

And it is not a contradiction, since that is what latae sententiae means! The very act causes the excommunication, whether anyone is aware of it or not. If this person is a faithful Catholic, they know they are not allowed to partake of the sacraments, until they confess their sins and profess the Faith. Again, occult excommunication. Try looking it up. It’ll help you seem more versed in what you have no idea about.

 

[Religio71]

So how do you determine that Why Me is a heretic and automatically exed? And how come you have so much “occult” information about Why Me that his own church doesn’t?

Hmm, let’s see:

We are all aware that whyme was baptized into the LDS Church. This is apostasy. Who said that there is “occult” information about Why me. It isn’t hidden from everyone, it’s all on display right here.

Latae sententiae excommunication does not need someone to declare someone an apostate or heretic. The criteria for both is set forth in the Canon Law. There is no need for an authority to declare this, according to latae sententiae. The very act itself automatically applies the sentence. Again, if you would do research on this instead of blindly talking about it, you would understand. I don’t want you to believe in it obviously, but it’s clear that you don’t understand it, as another Catholic has already commented on.

 

[why_me]

So you believe in the Real Presence, which Mormons do not?

It would seem that mormons believe that the bread and water that are taken by them during sacrament meeting is the pressence of christ. Their sacramental prayers seem to verify it. And if so, I am not one to argue with them. I know that the lds take this aspect of their sacrament meeting very seriously and silence is almost mandatory as members are in prayer with their heavenly father. And I would think that when catholics take the communion, mormons would have no problem with the idea that the real pressence is in the communion. It is done very respectfully and holy. And if so, I am not one to argue with the idea.

Like you I am now a politician!

 

[Religio71]

It would seem that mormons believe that the bread and water that are taken by them during sacrament meeting is the pressence of christ. Their sacramental prayers seem to verify it. And if so, I am not one to argue with them. I know that the lds take this aspect of their sacrament meeting very seriously and silence is almost mandatory as members are in prayer with their heavenly father. And I would think that when catholics take the communion, mormons would have no problem with the idea that the real pressence is in the communion. It is done very respectfully and holy. And if so, I am not one to argue with the idea.

Like you I am now a politician!

I’m glad you’re becoming a politician! You are clearly more Mormon than Catholic. Just BE Mormon! Defend it! I like the Mormon lifestyle, the Mormon community, the regularization of Sunday school and activities for all age groups. I don’t agree with the beliefs obviously. I don’t think there is any truth to the unique LDS beliefs.

Come on why me, you know that the LDS Sacrament is not equivalent to the Eucharist. We believe that it actually becomes the Body and Blood of Christ. All groups that do Communion, whether symbolic, spiritual, or Real Presence, are reverent during it. That doesn’t mean they believe that Christ’s body and blood are present under the appearance of bread and wine.

Here is what the Encyclopedia of Mormonism says on Communion:

Partaking of the Sacrament is the central act of worship and covenant renewal and resembles the simple commemorative meal described in the New Testament (cf. Matt. 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20; Acts 2:42, 46). Postbiblical doctrines of transubstantiation (real presence) and of a “mere sign” are absent from the LDS teachings. All members of the Church, including unbaptized children, are encouraged to partake of the bread and water as emblems in remembrance of the body and blood of Jesus Christ (see D&C 27). The communion sought is a communion of spirit as envisioned in the Sacrament prayers (Moro. 4-5; 3 Ne. 18; D&C 20:77, 79).

Also, here are the Sacramental prayers:

**O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen [Moroni 4:3].

O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen [Moroni 5:2].**

This is not equivalent to the Real Presence, where the priest explicitly says "and so Father we ask you to send your Spirit to bless this offering, that they may become the Body and Blood of Christ…

It is clearly against LDS doctrine to believe in the Real Presence. If anything, it is a general spiritual presence (not necessarily even “in” or under the appearance of the bread and water), which is heretical in the Catholic Church.

So when you go to Adoration, do you believe that the host is actually the Body of Christ?

 

[why_me]

From my understanding, sins of envy and unkindness may not qualify as “mortal sin”, but certainly venial sins.

And again, their sins does not give you a reason to commit sins yourself and present yourself for communion whilst in a state of mortal sin.

If you held the Catholic Church in high esteem, as you claim to, you’d abide by her rules, and not your fallible rationalisation.

And a believing Catholic is someone who practices the faith fully with no reservation. That is not you, however.

And this is coming from a fallen Catholic, who at least had the common decency to not present myself for communion for over a year, whilst I was attending mass only sporadically.

Give it up already.

Hardly. If you knew her story you would see it differently. The nuns were cruel beyond reason to saint faustina. And yet, they would be considered believing catholics? There behaviour toward the future saint was far from venial. To be cruel toward the sick or to the dying is mortal, in my humble opinion. And those nuns were not practicing their faith fully at all. Thus, they were not believing catholics according to your definition.

And what mortal sin am I commiting in defending the lds church? Where does it say that I cannot defend the lds church against false accusations and judgements?

I also attend mass regularly.

 

[Benadam]

Ignore zerinus, he is trying to tell Catholics that he knows better about our beliefs and laws. He doesn’t get that acts of abortion or apostasy (by joining another religion) causes an immediate excommunication, without the need for someone to declare you excommunicated (hence “latae sententiae”). Someone does not need to declare you an apostate or heretic for this to occur.

If only he would actually read about this instead of trying to sound knowledgeable on it with no knowledge on it.

Thank you.

Odd when a tourist thinks they know more about a place than the people who live there.

 

[why_me]

So when you go to Adoration, do you believe that the host is actually the Body of Christ?

Why would I think otherwise? If catholics say that it is the body of Christ…it is the body of Christ. I have no problems with that at all.

 

[Religio71]

Why would I think otherwise? If catholics say that it is the body of Christ…it is the body of Christ. I have no problems with that at all.

Well it’s not about if we say it is. Do you believe it?

So when you go to LDS Sacrament Meeting, do you believe the Sacrament is just a spiritual presence or even symbolic?

If you believe that the Catholic Eucharist really is the actual body and blood of Christ, do you believe that Catholic priests have the authority to make that happen?