Wicca: Just how dangerous is it?

[Louis_wu]

I in no way agree with wicca, but I think it is a little strange that so many catholics seem ardently against it since the pope has visited many interfaith meetings (for example the one at Assisi) where he has met with representatives of many religions including those of shamanistic and animistic belief systems, there are even photos online of pope benedict receiving a blessing from a member of the traditional aboriginal belief system which I and I assume most of the members of this board would classify as pagan, basically. So how can you criticize wicca when the pope is meeting with and tacitly supporting pagan religions?

here are links proving that the pope has met with members of various religions:

thetablet.co.uk/article/15744
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/JP2apostasywithpagansidolatersandinfidels.php

and here is a quote from john paul II:

“Particularly noteworthy was the prayer meeting at the sanctuary of Our Lady of Mercy at Lake Togo where, for the first time, I also prayed with a group of Animists.” (L’Osservatore Romano, August 26, 1985, p. 9.)

how can you condemn witchcraft when the pope by his own admission prays with animists(pagans)?

 

[Rabbity]

Wiccans (or other pagan groups) casting spells is harmless, it’s just another form of prayer.

From what I understand of wicca, they have a very strict rule called the threefold rule: the energy you send out will come back to you three times as strong. Therefore you only cast spells/pray for kindness and good intentions. You never pray/cast a spell to hurt anyone or wish for their death. Also you never pray/cast a spell for someone else unless they give you their permission first. It’s a violation otherwise.

So if you’re freaked out by someone who cast a “get well” spell for a friend with the flu who gave the spellcaster permission to pray for them…well, I can’t help you.

 

[Louis_wu]

There are pictures of pope benedict receiving a blessing(if that’s the correct term) from a member of the aboriginies. Surely participating in a religious ceremony of another religion is lending some credence to it. I mean its not like benedict can plead ignorance. I mean I have heard of some so called protestants receiving “confession” but these people usually are not aware of the implications of what they are doing, the same cannot be said of pope benedict. I could link to the photo if you like, but its easy enough to find on google. Also I was just using the sedevaticanist website as a reference, just because I use it for info does not mean I share their beliefs. If I was talking about Islam I might use a muslim website that doesn’t mean I’m going to convert to islam.

 

[Louis_wu]

The point I am making is that catholics who believe in no salvation outside the catholic church are in a predicament due to Vatican II which states that other faiths such as muslims can be saved and in the catechism.

 

[Louis_wu]

To be honest I think the catholic church has been sending mixed messages about salvation outside the catholic church. Sometimes they say salvation is possible outside the church and sometimes they reaffirm the traditional doctrine that there is no salvation outside the church. I’ll try to get some quotes but it might take a little while.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Do you guys believe its possible to cast spells & curses?

 

[PumpkinSeed]

How are spells and curses even possible? I can understand sin, but that is supernatural sin.

 

[Reuben_J]

To be honest I think the catholic church has been sending mixed messages about salvation outside the catholic church. Sometimes they say salvation is possible outside the church and sometimes they reaffirm the traditional doctrine that there is no salvation outside the church. I’ll try to get some quotes but it might take a little while.

Hi Louis.

You may want to refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), article # 839 to 848 where it speaks mainly on those outside the Catholic Church. It may take time to really comprehend it, seeing you being non-Catholic but if you try to understand it, the message is quite clear. There is no salvation outside the Church but there is a caveat to that where it applies to certain situation that salvation may well be upon such people.

Here is an excerpt that may be of immediate relevance:

*“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
*

 

[Publisher]

Do you guys believe its possible to cast spells & curses?

Do you believe your prayers and desires when addressed to God effect the world you live in?

Those who “cast spells” or “utter curses” have the same idea in their minds…just from a different perspective.

Do you believe you can pray for a new job…to be cured from sickness…confound an enemy or stop tjhem from harming you?

Same principle. What Christians call “prayer” would fall under the catagory of “spell” for Wiccans…not a 'point by point" equality…but prayer, invocation and evocation is a similar concept…to embrace prayer with a “Christian” mindset one must be “Christian.”

 

[Reuben_J]

Do you believe your prayers and desires when addressed to God effect the world you live in?

Those who “cast spells” or “utter curses” have the same idea in their minds…just from a different perspective.

Do you believe you can pray for a new job…to be cured from sickness…confound an enemy or stop tjhem from harming you?

Same principle. What Christians call “prayer” would fall under the catagory of “spell” for Wiccans…not a 'point by point" equality…but prayer, invocation and evocation is a similar concept…to embrace prayer with a “Christian” mindset one must be “Christian.”

Spells and curses have an evil connotation to me of which the purpose would be more to harm and to put one in bondage. Prayer is always for the good of a person being prayed for, to petition or to glorify God.

 

[Publisher]

Spells and curses have an evil connotation to me of which the purpose would be more to harm and to put one in bondage. Prayer is always for the good of a person being prayed for, to petition or to glorify God.

Not all…if any…Wiccan spells are for “evil” purposes…some are for healing…some are to bring about peace in a situation. That a Catholic would find “spell” an evil connotation is no big surprise…that Christians too “pray against” their enemies…asking God to punish them…stop them…confound them…even harm them…“prayer”…“curse” in some cases are interchangeable…depending on whom is doing the “praying” and “cursing”.

 

[Reuben_J]

Not all…if any…Wiccan spells are for “evil” purposes…some are for healing…some are to bring about peace in a situation. That a Catholic would find “spell” an evil connotation is no big surprise…that Christians too “pray against” their enemies…asking God to punish them…stop them…confound them…even harm them…“prayer”…“curse” in some cases are interchangeable…depending on whom is doing the “praying” and “cursing”.

Ha ha. Thanks.

Anyway, I hope that I will never be put into a situation where I have to pray that God punishes my ‘enemy’. And if that happens, I really pray that I will have the strength by the grace of God to turn the other cheek and to forgive as how Jesus would forgive.

 

[MatteoRicci]

I do have to raise a particular question.

Why is Wicca shoe-horned into the “dangerous Occult” category whereas other world religions are not?

We are firm in the truth of our faith, but generally most catholics I’ve met whether they be the laity, monastics, or within the priesthood in countries where we are not the predominate faith don’t really have much of a concern with say Hinduism or Daoism.

And here by “concern” I’m pointing to the idea that these religions that don’t have a historical connection with ours (as opposed to Judaism or Islam) aren’t being pinned as the source of societal degeneration/gateway for Demonic influence/etc.

Yet Wicca “sets off the alarm bells” within the Catholic Church in the manner that Scientology does for the wider American public.

Err… why?

 

[Jesusismyfriend]

I know from experience as well: The Occult is dangerous. I think it’s like that verse in the Bible that says Satan will disguise himself as an “angel of light.” Wicca seems fairly innocent, but the Bible forbids Chrisitians from praciticing any form of witchcraft. So even just a little “experimentation” can cause harm.
I haven’t come to a conclusion as to whether a Christian can or cannot have a demon. The idea of anyone, believer or unbeliever, having one nowadays seems to cause divisions and fights among Christians. But I think any form of the cult is capable of “planting demons.” Or at the very least, it allows a demon to try to take hold of a believer.
And any form of the occult and Chrisitanity cannot be mixed to form one religion or belief. Eventually, one will overtake the other, and even though Christ is stronger, Satan will often be the one who wins. There is nothing safe about Wicca or any other forms of the occult.

 

[Jesusismyfriend]

I do have to raise a particular question.

Why is Wicca shoe-horned into the “dangerous Occult” category whereas other world religions are not?

We are firm in the truth of our faith, but generally most catholics I’ve met whether they be the laity, monastics, or within the priesthood in countries where we are not the predominate faith don’t really have much of a concern with say Hinduism or Daoism.

And here by “concern” I’m pointing to the idea that these religions that don’t have a historical connection with ours (as opposed to Judaism or Islam) aren’t being pinned as the source of societal degeneration/gateway for Demonic influence/etc.

Yet Wicca “sets off the alarm bells” within the Catholic Church in the manner that Scientology does for the wider American public.

Err… why?

Actually, a lot of religions that had similar beliefs to Wicca have been around for years. The Druids were similar to the modern day Wiccans.
And of course, a person could get enslaved by any other faith besides Christianity. There are even churches that practice both Witchcraft and Christianity, and I believe someone could be influenced by demons because of that. I think Judaism and Islamic religions are likely to cause extreme legalism, which can have a hold similar if not the same as demons do.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hey everyone. At one time I used to be a Wiccan. A Wiccan is basically a witch. Wicca is an Occult religion although some will disagree with that. Most will agree that it is a Neopagan religion. That said, just how spiritually dangerous is Wicca? Considering that it is at least related to the Occult, isn’t there a danger of demonic possession and other problems for practitioners?

If you have not already done this, get rid of EVERY object you used in your witchcraft. Take them outside and SMASH them into bits with a hammer. Destroy all of it, burn the books/papers, etc. Make sure NONE of it can be used by anyone else in any way.

Then either get a priest to come and bless your home, or put blessed salt and holy water in every room. Get a crucifix for each room in your home, have them blessed, and hang them. Keep using holy water from now going forward.

 

[Maryann_C]

Just in case you’re not aware, Judaism’s view of Satan is different from that of Christianity and Islam. Satan is still an angel, not a demon or fallen angel, according to Jewish belief. He is the accuser, the tempter; but he nonetheless works for G-d in testing our free will. (On Yom Kippur, however, Satan, the accuser, is silent.) There is no real clash of powerful forces between G-d and Satan. Judaism cannot tolerate the idea that a former angel would be strong enough to even think of challenging G-d.

This is very interesting, I have never heard it before. Do you have some resources you can direct me to?For now though I wonder, in the story of Job is it actually God doing the testing by torture according to Jewish belief? You may need to start a new thread but I would love to go deeper into understanding how the Jewish people view satan.

I in no way agree with wicca, but I think it is a little strange that so many catholics seem ardently against it since the pope has visited many interfaith meetings (for example the one at Assisi) where he has met with representatives of many religions including those of shamanistic and animistic belief systems, there are even photos online of pope benedict receiving a blessing from a member of the traditional aboriginal belief system which I and I assume most of the members of this board would classify as pagan, basically. So how can you criticize wicca when the pope is meeting with and tacitly supporting pagan religions?

here are links proving that the pope has met with members of various religions:

thetablet.co.uk/article/15744
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/JP2apostasywithpagansidolatersandinfidels.php

and here is a quote from john paul II:

“Particularly noteworthy was the prayer meeting at the sanctuary of Our Lady of Mercy at Lake Togo where, for the first time, I also prayed with a group of Animists.” (L’Osservatore Romano, August 26, 1985, p. 9.)

how can you condemn witchcraft when the pope by his own admission prays with animists(pagans)?

So when the President of the United states meets with heads of other countries , shakes hands etc he is agreeing with all their policies?

The quote you site assumes that the Pope was praying to whatever the Animists was praying to but then you would have to be able to read his mind and heart. Perhaps …since they were at a Marian sanctuary he was praying to Jesus for the salvation of their souls and consecrating them to Our Lady.

 

[Maryann_C]

If you have not already done this, get rid of EVERY object you used in your witchcraft. Take them outside and SMASH them into bits with a hammer. Destroy all of it, burn the books/papers, etc. Make sure NONE of it can be used by anyone else in any way.

Then either get a priest to come and bless your home, or put blessed salt and holy water in every room. Get a crucifix for each room in your home, have them blessed, and hang them. Keep using holy water from now going forward.

 

[Patavium]

I don’t like how people are talking as if Wicca is like any other religion .

So other religions give power to the user to conjure spells as if this person has any real power? How is this a form of prayer? You casting spells and curses to get whatever your heart wishes… How is this similar to praying to God for guidance, and to accept His Will?

That is KEY DIFFERENCE. We pray for help, yes. We pray for peace, strength… We pray for our sick… HOWEVER, we ACCEPT God’s Will above our will. Tell me how Wiccans accept God’s will?. It is a religion where the user is relying on idols, and himself or herself. Furthermore, It is dangerous, and the SCRIPTURE says so. I believe God more than any human being.

 

[Publisher]

I don’t like how people are talking as if Wicca is like any other religion .

So other religions give power to the user to conjure spells as if this person has any real power? How is this a form of prayer? You casting spells and curses to get whatever your heart wishes… How is this similar to praying to God for guidance, and to accept His Will?

That is KEY DIFFERENCE. We pray for help, yes. We pray for peace, strength… We pray for our sick… HOWEVER, we ACCEPT God’s Will above our will. Tell me how Wiccans accept God’s will?. It is a religion where the user is relying on idols, and himself or herself. Furthermore, It is dangerous, and the SCRIPTURE says so. I believe God more than any human being.

The caricature used at CAF concerning Wicca “casting spells and curses” is exactly that…a caricature.

Wiccans seek to be in tune with the forces of Nature…they see life as an expression of the Natural Life Force found in all living things…of which the Gods are part. By seeking to put oneself in balance with these forces they seek wholeness…their forms and reasons are different than that of Christians…we cannot impose our own ideas of “prayer” upon a group that does not share our ideas and beliefs concerning prayer.

Wiccans seek to join their deities…deities that seek to bring balance and wholeness. “Harm none” is part of the “Rede”…if they cause harm by their “spells” to others, it is believed it retruns upon them three fold…a modified view of kharma…cause and effect.

Witchcraft as mentioned in scripture has more to do with necromancy and “poisoners” than any Celtic or Traditional form of modern Wicca/Neo-Paganism.

One could not impose “Christian” views of prayer upon Buddhists either without grossly misrepresenting a Buddhis understanding of prayer and it’s role in Buddhist life…so too…the caricature portrayed in this thread by “Christians” upon Wicca’s understanding of prayer is a gross misrepresentation of Wiccan spirituality…but…it certainly gets the “miles” it’s intended to get.