Wicca: Just how dangerous is it?

[Lokabrenna]

The caricature used at CAF concerning Wicca “casting spells and curses” is exactly that…a caricature.

And, as I have said, not all Wiccans practice magick, and of the Wiccans I know who do, none of them go around cursing people. It’s like when someone says that Catholics worship Mary or practice ritual cannibalism.

For more info, see this FAQ:

“Do all Wiccans practice magic(k)?”

stason.org/TULARC/religion/wicca-goddess-witch/3-3-Do-all-Wiccans-practice-magic-k.html

“Is Wicca the same as witchcraft?”

stason.org/TULARC/religion/wicca-goddess-witch/3-4-Is-Wicca-the-same-thing-as-witchcraft.html

 

[Patavium]

Look friends,

I have no problem if a Wiccan apologists opens a thread and clears the issues. However, God was clear about Wiccan practices that He dislikes. I trust God more than any human being alive.

God bless!

 

[Publisher]

And, as I have said, not all Wiccans practice magick, and of the Wiccans I know who do, none of them go around cursing people. It’s like when someone says that Catholics worship Mary or practice ritual cannibalism.

For more info, see this FAQ:

“Do all Wiccans practice magic(k)?”

stason.org/TULARC/religion/wicca-goddess-witch/3-3-Do-all-Wiccans-practice-magic-k.html

“Is Wicca the same as witchcraft?”

stason.org/TULARC/religion/wicca-goddess-witch/3-4-Is-Wicca-the-same-thing-as-witchcraft.html

I have Wiccan friends…they are “second generation” Wiccans…their children will be “third generation” Wiccans.

You are correct…the “magick” part is more for them a “devotional” tool to bring them in tune with the Life Force/God/Goddess, much like ritual and prayer are used among very liturgical Christian groups…their chants and rituals FOR THEM are not any different than the rosary and mass for Catholics…it’s a tool to join with the Divine.

My friend was explaining to his son the resurrection of Christ. The child had been “clued in” by one of his Christian friends and was unsure as to the meaning of “resurrection”…His father told him after three days Jesus came back to life…the son…excited responded…“Cool! Jesus is a zombie!” My friend laughed and responded to him…“I can see how you would think that…but a Christian might find that rude and offensive, so it would be best not to repeat that…it’s not that Jesus is a zombie…but he came back to life…more like one of the Gods than a zombie.” His son THEN understood that for a Christian the resurrection was more important as he was able to relate to Jesus being one of the Gods…not a recussitated corpse.

My Wiccan friends are educated professionals…he is an engineer…she is a mental health therapist. Their faith is important to them as much as mine is to me…and as many Catholics are to them…they do not like their faith characterized in the way it has been here…because…well…it’s not like it is characterized here.

 

[Patavium]

Christians in this thread.

Do you disagree with God with the practices of Witchcraft that He dislikes?

I am ok as long as it doesn’t go against God. That is my point.

God bless!

 

[Contarini]

Look friends,

I have no problem if a Wiccan apologists opens a thread and clears the issues. However, God was clear about Wiccan practices that He dislikes. I trust God more than any human being alive.

God bless!

Where has God spoken about this? In the Bible? But Wicca is a modern religion–it wasn’t around when the Bible was written, so the Bible can’t possibly speak clearly and directly about it. The Bible says things that may apply to Wiccan practices, but there’s a lot of interpretation, literary, historical, and theological, that needs to take place before one can conclude this.

The problem, I think, is that Wiccan propagandists, especially in the early years of the movement, have claimed that their modern religion is what the people accused of witchcraft in the past were “really” doing. Which, of course, naturally leads many Christians to assume that Wiccans “really” practice what the “witches” of the past were accused of practicing.

In fact Wicca is a modern religion with a nostalgic appeal to various non-Christian movements and practices of the past. Wicca has, at most, as much to do with the real “witches” of the early modern period as fundamentalist Baptists have to do with the real Waldenses and Albigenses–which is to say, precious little! And, of course, historians argue over the nature of the “witchcraft” of the past too (which is why early Wiccans, and less scholarly Wiccans even today, could get away with claiming that these “witches” were really practicing a pagan religion of which they are the modern continuers).

Edwin

 

[Publisher]

Where has God spoken about this? In the Bible? But Wicca is a modern religion–it wasn’t around when the Bible was written, so the Bible can’t possibly speak clearly and directly about it. The Bible says things that may apply to Wiccan practices, but there’s a lot of interpretation, literary, historical, and theological, that needs to take place before one can conclude this.

The problem, I think, is that Wiccan propagandists, especially in the early years of the movement, have claimed that their modern religion is what the people accused of witchcraft in the past were “really” doing. Which, of course, naturally leads many Christians to assume that Wiccans “really” practice what the “witches” of the past were accused of practicing.

In fact Wicca is a modern religion with a nostalgic appeal to various non-Christian movements and practices of the past. Wicca has, at most, as much to do with the real “witches” of the early modern period as fundamentalist Baptists have to do with the real Waldenses and Albigenses–which is to say, precious little! And, of course, historians argue over the nature of the “witchcraft” of the past too (which is why early Wiccans, and less scholarly Wiccans even today, could get away with claiming that these “witches” were really practicing a pagan religion of which they are the modern continuers).

Edwin

My Wiccan friends realize that the “early movement” embraced a fanciful history and sought to find a connection with the past. These days most Wiccans…not the “fluff bunny I want to be a witch” Wiccans, are very much aware that theirs is a modern movement…a “rediscovery” of the Old Gods in “new packaging”.

They seek to gain insight from the past…but realize while ancient paganism existed, it was not an “organized” group…it was more social than organizational. So the pagan practices varied from culture to culture BECASUSE the cultures varied.

Middle Eastern paganism is very different than Celtic, Tuetonic, Greek or Egyptian paganism…there may have been similarities as paganism is shrouded in antiquity…but the “Gods” took on the character of the land they lived in…the Caanaite gods were as ruthless and unforgiving as the desert…the Celtic deities were as lively and diverse as the animals and seasons in a more northern climate.

Modern Wicca is a “rediscovery”…not a “continuation”…

Biblical injunctions against “witchraft” dealt more with 'poisoners"…those who committed murder with herbs and potions and necromancy than the worship of nature deities.

 

[Patavium]

Where has God spoken about this? In the Bible? But Wicca is a modern religion–it wasn’t around when the Bible was written, so the Bible can’t possibly speak clearly and directly about it. The Bible says things that may apply to Wiccan practices, but there’s a lot of interpretation, literary, historical, and theological, that needs to take place before one can conclude this.

The problem, I think, is that Wiccan propagandists, especially in the early years of the movement, have claimed that their modern religion is what the people accused of witchcraft in the past were “really” doing. Which, of course, naturally leads many Christians to assume that Wiccans “really” practice what the “witches” of the past were accused of practicing.

In fact Wicca is a modern religion with a nostalgic appeal to various non-Christian movements and practices of the past. Wicca has, at most, as much to do with the real “witches” of the early modern period as fundamentalist Baptists have to do with the real Waldenses and Albigenses–which is to say, precious little! And, of course, historians argue over the nature of the “witchcraft” of the past too (which is why early Wiccans, and less scholarly Wiccans even today, could get away with claiming that these “witches” were really practicing a pagan religion of which they are the modern continuers).

Edwin

“Wicca” is not in the bible. Magic is, Witchcraft is, Divination is, Witch is, and so on…

You yourself cannot tell me with 100% certainty that is not a continuation of Witchcraft.

If you are Wiccan, and you don’t go against God. That is OK. I still feel that you should probably like any other religion learn more about the fullness of truth of God. However, if you are practicing, and believe you are practicing what God denounces in the bible, that is going against God, and I am not ok with that.

 

[MatteoRicci]

One could not impose “Christian” views of prayer upon Buddhists either without grossly misrepresenting a Buddhis understanding of prayer and it’s role in Buddhist life…so too…the caricature portrayed in this thread by “Christians” upon Wicca’s understanding of prayer is a gross misrepresentation of Wiccan spirituality…but…it certainly gets the “miles” it’s intended to get.

Now you see, that’s precisely what i’m concerned about.

Certain protestant groups construe the existence of Saints in the Catholic/Orthodox/Epsicopalian/OrientalO Churches as a form of idolatry and outright polytheism.

They do so because they do not take into consideration the logic/manner/characterization of our traditions vis-a-vis our religious practices. They “see” something that sort of approximates something they dislike and BOOM we are guilty of it.

That’s precisely what’s going on over here.

The problem, I think, is that Wiccan propagandists, especially in the early years of the movement, have claimed that their modern religion is what the people accused of witchcraft in the past were “really” doing. Which, of course, naturally leads many Christians to assume that Wiccans “really” practice what the “witches” of the past were accused of practicing.

In fact Wicca is a modern religion with a nostalgic appeal to various non-Christian movements and practices of the past. Wicca has, at most, as much to do with the real “witches” of the early modern period as fundamentalist Baptists have to do with the real Waldenses and Albigenses–which is to say, precious little! And, of course, historians argue over the nature of the “witchcraft” of the past too (which is why early Wiccans, and less scholarly Wiccans even today, could get away with claiming that these “witches” were really practicing a pagan religion of which they are the modern continuers).

Thank you Edwin for clearing that up.

I was always under the impression that the “suffer not a witch to live” businesses is historically applicable to the practice of Canaanite Necromancy and the creation/usage of poison. That’s what the Rabbinical scholars tell me at least.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This balderdash that Wicca is not witchcraft is ridiculous. They are the SAME THING. Wicca is the “religion” that was invented to make witchcraft seem legitimate. There is nothing else, all Wiccans are witches and warlocks and if they don’t cast spells, then they are pagans only.

 

[E_7]

“Wicca” is not in the bible. Magic is, Witchcraft is, Divination is, Witch is, and so on…

You yourself cannot tell me with 100% certainty that is not a continuation of Witchcraft.

If you are Wiccan, and you don’t go against God. That is OK.

How can you not go against God and at the same time be a Wiccan? Doesn’t make sense to me. How can you be a Wiccan without going against God? I believe that a person who practices Wicca is not in God. There’s no way a person can be a Wiccan and not going against Our Lord! NOT ok.

 

[E_7]

This balderdash that Wicca is not witchcraft is ridiculous. They are the SAME THING. Wicca is the “religion” that was invented to make witchcraft seem legitimate. There is nothing else, all Wiccans are witches and warlocks and if they don’t cast spells, then they are pagans only.

I agree!

 

[Holly3278]

Personally I feel that Wicca is a very dangerous religion as are all Neopagan religions. They delve into the Occult and of course the Occult is very spiritually dangerous. I wouldn’t doubt it if people have become possessed by practicing Wicca and other forms of the Occult.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Personally I feel that Wicca is a very dangerous religion as are all Neopagan religions. They delve into the Occult and of course the Occult is very spiritually dangerous. I wouldn’t doubt it if people have become possessed by practicing Wicca and other forms of the Occult.

I’m of the same opinion.

 

[Patavium]

How can you not go against God and at the same time be a Wiccan? Doesn’t make sense to me. How can you be a Wiccan without going against God? I believe that a person who practices Wicca is not in God. There’s no way a person can be a Wiccan and not going against Our Lord! NOT ok.

My point exactly.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So other religions give power to the user to conjure spells as if this person has any real power? How is this a form of prayer? You casting spells and curses to get whatever your heart wishes… How is this similar to praying to God for guidance, and to accept His Will?

The Bible teaches quite clearly that witchcraft is real and powerful. To say otherwise is to flatly contradict Scripture.

Put these two statements together and I’m afraid I must disagree heavily with the underlying essence underneath with regards to the power of ‘spells’.

And forgive me, I really can’t help laughing at such notions. To demonstrate, let me answer another person’s question:

Do you guys believe its possible to cast spells & curses?

Depends on your definition of ‘spells and curses’.

Given our modern context, the meanings come in a wide variety. And with regards to that, this is why I find making Wiccan to be so ‘real and powerful’ a logically suspect idea.

Here’s why.

You call this power?





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4LSRFZZ0LbY/0.jpg



No. Just. No.

THIS is power!

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http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...sh/7f/38/7f3833fe9e08685f13d7af3d1697367a.jpg

There’s no doubt about it.

Wiccan ‘spellcraft’ is nigh overrated. >B)

 

[Patavium]

Lostwonderer,

It is not that Wiccans will be casting spells (highly doubtful). It is that they open themselves to spiritual forces out of their control.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Lostwonderer,

It is not that Wiccans will be casting spells (highly doubtful). It is that they open themselves to spiritual forces out of their control.

That is still not under the definition of ‘powerful’.

You want to attribute power to them, ask them to take down an U.S. carrier. WoW-style. Then we’ll talk.

 

[Contarini]

“Wicca” is not in the bible. Magic is, Witchcraft is, Divination is, Witch is, and so on…

You yourself cannot tell me with 100% certainty that is not a continuation of Witchcraft.

So now any contention being made has to come with 100% certainty? Why the sudden raising of the stakes?

We don’t know for sure what the “witchcraft” in the Bible was–there are a number of words for various kinds of nefarious magic practices, and scholars don’t know in many cases with even approximate certainty what they refer to. From the story of Saul and the “witch of Endor” we know that one kind of condemned magic practitioners (at least) called up the spirits of the dead in order to learn information from them.

It might be worth noting that many fundamentalist Protestants think that what Catholics are doing in venerating saints is essentially the same thing, and while I agree this is nonsense, I’m not sure that the continuities many folks want to make between Biblical “witchcraft” and neo-pagan practices are much more solidly established.

In short, shouldn’t the folks who want to condemn neopagans based on Biblical texts be the ones who have to shoulder the burden of uncertainty? If you are the one making pronouncements with certainty, then you are the one who has to deal with the fact that 100% certainty is unavailable.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

This balderdash that Wicca is not witchcraft is ridiculous. They are the SAME THING. Wicca is the “religion” that was invented to make witchcraft seem legitimate.

How do you know this? On what do you base it?

Early Wiccans claimed that they were descendants of medieval/early modern “witchcraft.” This connection has pretty widely been disproved and is now generally abandoned by well-informed, thoughtful Wiccans.

My interpretation of the evidence makes more sense of this fact than yours.

You choose to accept extremely implausible claims (along the lines of fundamentalist Baptist “trail of blood” propaganda) by Wiccan propagandists because they suit your purpose of condemning Wicca.

I choose to treat those claims as I treat similarly dubious claims of continuity by other traditions.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I agree!

Why do you agree?