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joanofarc2008
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Stop asking. Get it court ordered.
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Serap
Guest
I agree. Get a court order.
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rainbow1
Guest
Is your son “wanting” to see this new therapist? If not, then it is very unlikely to help the situation. In therapy, the “sharing” really ought to be with people who want to share, otherwise it really can turn into something that violates the person who is forced to participate. I am all for a parent taking a very young child to a therapist, but even at that, if the child consistently says that they don’t want to participate, then the parent, in my opinion needs to respect those boundaries. When we share our hearts with someone, it should be by choice. Therapy is very different than practicing medicine. In medicine, there is something that needs to be “fixed”. In your case, your son needs to be “heard” and related to. After a stronger relationship exists, the rest of the stuff will work its way out. As a young adult, your son is the one who gets to choose who he wants to listen to him. I can tell you care very much for your son, but the last thing you want is for him to “shut down” more. What I am hearing from your posts is that your son wants “your” attention, and not that of a therapist. Maybe it would be helpful to ask your son what he would like your relationship with him to be like…what would he like to do with you? What are special things you could share together?..what places would he like to go with you? Is there a concert or a movie he would like to see with you? I would put your son in the driver’s seat and let him tell you what he wants. Kids in this type of situation oftentimes don’t feel empowered…they often times feel that others are making all the decisions about their lives, and if your son is in high school, that is a normal developemental situation that is being amplified. It would be interesting if you asked your son whether or not he feels since the divorce , that everyone makes decisions for him. I suspect you would grab his attention and start the much needed dialogue between you and him…not between him and a therapist. You are his father, and that is an indespensible role in his life. You will always hold one of the major roles of mentor in his life. Start out small and then the conversations will eventually turn into a confiding about the larger issues such as girls, dating, etc.
Also, in reading some of the posts written by others, I am hearing some pretty hefty and negative comments made towards your exwife by people who don’t even know her. I suspect she made lots of mistakes, but she is just a simple human being like the rest of us. I would skim over those posts and don’t let them fuel more discontent for you in your life. After my divorce there were tons of people who had plenty to say about my ex. But in the long run, I found the most helpful thing was to just regularly pray for him, several times a day, asking the Lord to heal him and to send His Love and Peace to him. This quickly became the route to my own sense of peace and my ability to move forward in life. After all, there will come a day when we are all in heaven and all our souls will be at peace (even our with our ex spouses!) with one another. Divorce or no divorce, we can be the extension of our Lord’s Love and try to bring heaven to our daily lives. God bless!
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rainbow1
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Court orders cannot make a person share their soul. I think the wife and young adult son have already made their opinion about further therapy known. They are entitled to their opinion. The court can and often does force people to attend sessions, but I suspect this will only add more resentment to the mix with this family. Therapy is supposed to be a place of healing, not a place of forced or coerced “treatment”.
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joanofarc2008
Guest
Actually just because a therapy is court ordered does not mean it does not work - there are many ways of breaking down client resistance a counselor is able to recognize the difference between a consumer and a client. This is why all of this is taken into account as part of the intake.
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Serap
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yes, very much so. these people are trained professionals and deal with these situations all the time.
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rainbow1
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Actually, children of divorce need to have their boundaries respected and fortified, not crumpled. “Mandated” therapy is necessary at times for people who have broken the law, hurt others, etc…but most children of divorce don’t fit into this situation. If a child has been sexually assaulted, then yes, it is probably a good idea to try to strongly encourage the child pick someone who has the training to help them. This family , to my knowledge, does not fit into this scenario. In the long run, if a young adult (high school student) says they do not want to participate in therapy, it is better to respect those boundaries. ( I am not talking about a child with severe depression, ocd problems accentuated by stress, etc. , in which the family of an ill, young child is morally responsible for providing treatment.) With a young child, if the family is having a difficult time, it is quite appropriate to tell the child that you want them to try a few sessions, and then let them have the option of stopping. I am a huge advocate for empowering kids to make good decisions for themselves. I am a very strong advocate for therapy for young people, however, I also believe that for therapy to help, it cannot be “forced upon” anyone. Otherwise it simply becomes just a form of legal emotional abuse. It sounds to me that the most helpful thing here, considering the mom doesn’t want to participate, is for the dad to go and get ideas on strategies on relationship building with the kids. The mom very well may have legitmate concerns for not wanting to go. Any time she would step in an office, she opens up the opportunity to have things documented that could be used in court…I am not saying this is the dad’s purpose for wanting this…just that it might be the mother’s concern. Not all therapists are likeminded to Catholics. In fact, I know of a child whose therapist openly put down the Catholic faith and opposed Catholic teaching. This was in a court ordered setting. A parent in that situation cannot walk out without the chance of incarceration, unless the other parent agrees. This is not an exagerration. It happens regularly. A parent could take a therapist as such to the professional board, but the board would likely say that the parent was just an “angry parent” of divorce, and the board would likely defend the therapist. The dad could think the therapist would be helpful, and force this, but then end up bound by law to a situation he doesn’t even want for his child. I think parents have to be very, very careful what type of situations they bound their children to by law. Of course, I feel very differently about situations where the child wants to recieve help and the parents find a like minded therapist …this scenario is not in that category, though.
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Serap
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none of us are experts on what youth need during marital divorce. We are giving suggestions to try and help him, so let’s try and keep it unbiased if we can.
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joanofarc2008
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A lot of this would depend on the therapeutic orientation of the therapist. Much of what is going on here is between the parents and how they are interacting with the child in order to get at each other. The only way to collect that information in a Family Systems orientation is to have the child present for at least a couple of sessions. However, if grades are failing, etc then yes there is reason for some kind of mandated therapy because the family is obviously not able to do it on their own. How that is done is between them and the therapist.
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rainbow1
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Actually that is probably not true.
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rainbow1
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I don’t believe that because a highschool student has lowered grades , which is very common for kids with loss issues, that the legal system necessarily “needs” to be involved. If a child is suicidal, then that is a different circumstance. It is a totally different ballpark once the court is involved with therapy mandates, and oftentimes the child is the one who once again suffers. This near-adult child did not ask for the divorce, and doesn’t appear to want therapy. He is not a young child anymore. His opinion needs to be heard. Maybe when he is older, he will choose to get help on his own accord, and then it "could’ be helpful. I wonder if he would maybe be open to speaking to a youngish-priest? When parents start mandating kids who are in highschool, they are in great risk of completely losing all communication with them.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
FWIW, some comments on my therapists interaction with the kids (11,13, 18) at the time of separation (ex decided to move out).
- I found it very useful to have therapist as a sounding board/advice on assisting kids
- She advised against taking them into therapy as an automatic (not your case here) because she felt it made things a bigger issue for kids, not less. I.e. it tended to make them feel like they should be reacting more than they were.
- She did advise that when specific issues arose offer it to them as an option.
- She had me bring them to one of my sessions, telling them it was just so she could get a better feel for them since I was discussing them and get their opinions on how I was coping. (I.E. make that first encounter about me, not them, a non-threatening introduction).
- In divorce, kids are dealing with a lot of things that are beyond their control. Giving them control over the things I could was helpful. I.E. go to therapy or not.
- My kids eventually did opt for therapy at different times for specific purposes.
- Two ended up going to see my wife’s therapist with her, on their request. It was non-productive in terms of improving their relationship with her. It was very productive in terms of assisting them in assessing her.
- Legally, I have no right to access my kids records, at least in my state. The therapist is my child’s advocate, not mine. They state clearly in their agreements that they will not testify in custody cases. The therapy will not work if my kids suspected that what they told the therapist in confidence might get back to me or the ex.
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joanofarc2008
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If you had read my first response carefully - while I understand that later responses could have been misread as I did not take the time to properly craft them - the therapy is not for the child - it is for the two adults so they may learn to communicate lest they do anymore damage and yes sinking grades where there were none is a start of some signs especially when it comes to something like parental alienation. But we are not his therapists and I know quite a number of states where a certain number of session are the norm in child custody issues - not the outliers so again this is really an attorney issue at this point and dependent upon the state. This woman has already shown a history of being manipulative for money - now she seems to be trying to manipulate the child to continue to extort her xh.
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rainbow1
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Sorry, I thought we were talking about mandated therapy for a high school student. As far as mandating co-parenting, it probably won’t be helpful if one of the parents really doesn’t want to do it. Some people refuse communication, although I am not saying this is true for this wife. Co-parenting can be very helpful if both the parents are both really willing for it to help, and really have the child’s best interest in mind. Otherwise, it can cause unimaginable issues. And can be used in very bad ways by non decent attorneys. As far as the money situation, we don’t know all the issues around the money…maybe the wife feels entitled to it if she helped take care of the family for years allowing her husband to build his practice? It sounds like a lot of money, but if a man is grossing $700,000 a year, then a wife would likely feel entitled to a proportionate amount, especially if they were married a long time. And typically, at least in my state, the woman ends up with the very short end of the stick. Again , I am not talking about this family at hand, because I don’t know their situation. I am concerned as to assumptions made about the wife that I have read in posts written by many of the posters here. Parental alienation is another hot topic that spouses really can harm the child by claiming, when it is claimed to gain power in the court system, rather than due to any factual evidence. We don’t have any evidence that I know of that this mother is involved in that or viceversa. I think for the sake of the father, it is best that we keep speculation to a minimum. Divorce can be so volatile, and what they all need , is to get regrounded in the goodness of our Lord, and let some of these other things be in the past. I suspect the young boy’s grades will work their way out… These are hot topics for not only the OP, but also for many of us posters
…and I do believe the good thing is we all are really hoping to help this family and their painful situation. Let’s commit to praying for them…In my state, therapy records are not necessarily confidential. A crafty attorney can very easily get his hands on what he wants. It is very different than the confidentiality held by a priest. Any person going through a divorce in my state needs to be savy to protect their child on this account too. It could be very harmful for the child to end up having his/her thoughts publicly broadcast.
I really personally would love to see the Church more involved in helping this type of family…where confidentiality would be safeguarded…where morality would be upheld…and family values would be applauded…rather than so much dependance on a secular court system whose values are oftentimes less than desirable especially for our innocent young children. Do any of your churches have a divorce support group? How about for the kids?
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joanofarc2008
Guest
Thank you, and I appreciate your outlook. Yes, we should stay positive in the love of the Lord but I certainly do not believe that a couple of mandated sessions could hurt anything either. The one down position is that it may not help. The hope is that it may point out something to both parties that they may have missed by talking past each other and through the child.Sorry, I thought we were talking about mandated therapy for a high school student. As far as mandating co-parenting, it probably won’t be helpful if one of the parents really doesn’t want to do it. Some people refuse communication, although I am not saying this is true for this wife. Co-parenting can be very helpful if both the parents are both really willing for it to help, and really have the child’s best interest in mind. Otherwise, it can cause unimaginable issues. And can be used in very bad ways by non decent attorneys. As far as the money situation, we don’t know all the issues around the money…maybe the wife feels entitled to it if she helped take care of the family for years allowing her husband to build his practice? It sounds like a lot of money, but if a man is grossing $700,000 a year, then a wife would likely feel entitled to a proportionate amount, especially if they were married a long time. And typically, at least in my state, the woman ends up with the very short end of the stick. Again , I am not talking about this family at hand, because I don’t know their situation. I am concerned as to assumptions made about the wife that I have read in posts written by many of the posters here. Parental alienation is another hot topic that spouses really can harm the child by claiming, when it is claimed to gain power in the court system, rather than due to any factual evidence. We don’t have any evidence that I know of that this mother is involved in that or viceversa. I think for the sake of the father, it is best that we keep speculation to a minimum. Divorce can be so volatile, and what they all need , is to get regrounded in the goodness of our Lord, and let some of these other things be in the past. I suspect the young boy’s grades will work their way out… These are hot topics for not only the OP, but also for many of us posters
In my state, therapy records are not necessarily confidential. A crafty attorney can very easily get his hands on what he wants. It is very different than the confidentiality held by a priest. Any person going through a divorce in my state needs to be savy to protect their child on this account too. It could be very harmful for the child to end up having his/her thoughts publicly broadcast.
I really personally would love to see the Church more involved in helping this type of family…where confidentiality would be safeguarded…where morality would be upheld…and family values would be applauded…rather than so much dependance on a secular court system whose values are oftentimes less than desirable especially for our innocent young children. Do any of your churches have a divorce support group? How about for the kids?
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rainbow1
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I am hoping we haven’t run off the OP…LOL!!!
Yes, lets pray God works out whatever will work best for them…and that things work out great for all of them!!!
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joanofarc2008
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You are right - and no the OP is still around - I am 95% sure.
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oneofmany
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I am totally against the son being forced into therapy. No good will come from that if he won’t open up. I was suggesting a counselor for the parents so they can learn how to co-parent after a divorce. They are still the parents and always will be.
They need to learn how to get along when it comes to their children. Your ex may be persuaded to go if told it is in the best interest of her children. Nobody is going to TELL her what to do but learning how children feel and what to expect after a divorce is just smart.
They need to learn how to get along when it comes to their children. Your ex may be persuaded to go if told it is in the best interest of her children. Nobody is going to TELL her what to do but learning how children feel and what to expect after a divorce is just smart.
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tucdoc
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My son had a good session with the new therapist yesterday. He is expensive ($150/hr) and my ex and I had a disagreement whether 3 sessions before the end of the month is a “hardship” or not. Technically, she is to pay part of that. But she refuses as she is still mad about having to pay her attorneys fees. She felt that should have come out of “community funds”. Her share of those funds were used to buy me out of the house (at a significant loss in this market). So, again she went off on a tangent.
My point was that we should get our son the help he needs, but that we both need to be responsible for it. I was willing to pay the whole amount, but I asked that my son not have drum lessons next month ($180 for 4 sessions) to help off-set the cost. She became furious, as she knows how much cash I received. I told her I need that cash to basically start my life over (house, furniture, appliances, etc.). Also, I feel drum lessons are a privilege that he lost when he failed English. She doesn’t want to take his lessons away.
She did say that during the session my son told the therapist that he is getting bad grades to get my attention. I really don’t understand this. I’ve been there for him, and tried to get him to communicate throughout this whole process. I would like the two of us to have one of those session together so that I can better understand my son.
My point was that we should get our son the help he needs, but that we both need to be responsible for it. I was willing to pay the whole amount, but I asked that my son not have drum lessons next month ($180 for 4 sessions) to help off-set the cost. She became furious, as she knows how much cash I received. I told her I need that cash to basically start my life over (house, furniture, appliances, etc.). Also, I feel drum lessons are a privilege that he lost when he failed English. She doesn’t want to take his lessons away.
She did say that during the session my son told the therapist that he is getting bad grades to get my attention. I really don’t understand this. I’ve been there for him, and tried to get him to communicate throughout this whole process. I would like the two of us to have one of those session together so that I can better understand my son.
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Irishmom2
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What goes on in those sessions should be between your son and the therapist. At the very least, they should be directed to you as you are the one that wanted him to go, and you are the one paying for it. I would ask the therapist to use better judgment in reporting to your wife an issue that your son has with you.
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