Wife has given up

[TheRealJuliane]

So, our marriage ends because she is depressed and refuses to get help. And there is nothing I can say or do to prevent it from happening. My life sucks.

You know, it really could be medical issues. The anemia and hair loss, that’s not normal. Could be a lot of things, low thyroid is one of them. What a shame that she doesn’t want to actually pursue any of those solutions. You can’t make her want to be healthy or happy. She needs some divine intervention.

Doctors will tell people it’s stress when they start losing hair, and that’s rarely the case. I was told that. I know how I react to stress, and I’ve never lost my hair. It was low thyroid all along. Having thyroid issues is very common to women, it’s a weak point in our systems.

The other poster is right - the old standard used to be that a TSH of over 5 was what was treated. Now the standard is treat above 1 if possible, because most “normal” people feel best at a TSH of about 1. 3 is the absolute max TSH, and that for me would be walking death. I would like my doctor to keep my TSH at essentially zero, but he thinks it will cause bone loss.

Anyway. I will say some prayers for you, and for your wife. I wish a spirit of forgiveness would touch her hardened heart.

 

[faithfully]

Tuc… I really feel for you…

It does suck! Especially if this is driven by anything medical &/or depression… Because she’s going to be devistated some day if she “recovers” and the reality of what is happening now hits her then…

Not sure the extremeness of her hair loss… I have so much hair that I didn’t realize I was losing hair…I thought it was “normal”… sweeping up wads of it daily…

 

[styrgwillidar]

Tucdoc,

Sorry, Tucdoc- Your life doesn’t suck. Parts of it do, but not all of it. focusing on the negative, letting yourself be overwhelmed by the negative is a recipe for sending yourself down the drain. You can’t do that to your kids.

LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE MISERABLE!! I may never have a woman in my life again, but there’s plenty of other things I can enjoy. And I try hard to enjoy them. You have to force yourself to be up. You can not let this experience change who you are. My ex-wife was surprised I was not angrier or combative, but when I noticed myself resenting doing little things for my kids from the stress, I decided- that’s not me. And I wasn’t about to let someone else force me to change who I am. If you are a loving, caring non-vindictive person hold onto that.

Reading the Anne Sheffield books was one of the best things I did. I managed to get my wife to read them by simply asking her to read a couple of passages while I was reading them. She eventually read them herself after I finished because those couple of passages hit home.
She went on meds after that which was about 6 years ago. Things improved dramatically for a few years. But when she felt them stop working she wasn’t willing to push the Drs. to try different drugs.

You’re not alone, I keep running into more and more men in the same situation. Doesn’t change things but your life is still your life. Enjoy what you can. It’s why I keep coming back to the kids. This isn’t their choice and they’re relying on you to step in and make their lives as healthy as possible. Seriously consider a strategy to be the primary custodial parent. Be the example for them of how to deal with it if your wife does divorce you. Consider your strategy to keep your options open. I know a lot of men whose wives came back after a year, they figured out there was more going on. Would you be willing to take her back? Then during the break-up you can’t let things get so vindictive or combative that you eliminate the possibility. In my case I truly believe there is a physical condition at the heart of it. If she comes to that realization, gets the help she needs and wants to come back I’m open to trying. (I did sign up for that 'in sickness and in health thing).

This can drive you into depression- working out and therapy actually have both shown to have the same effect on brain chemistry as some anti-depressants. You need people you can talk to.

My kids and I saw Zombieland, I don’t know if you’ve seen it. But Rule #32 is posted on their doors- “Enjoy the little things.” It’s become their motto. Whenever they’ve felt down- and they still do- they go find something to enjoy vice sitting around moping. A few minutes playing with the dogs, a snack, a book, a walk in the sunshine, calling a friend or grandma/pa, wrestling with Dad. Whatever. Even in the middle of what seems to be your Zombie apocalypse take time to enjoy the little things. Even if it’s just a Twinkie.
God did not put us here to be miserable. Don’t let another person take the appreciation for the life God gave you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

She has yet to send my lawyer any divorce paperwork. This limbo is so frustrating. I want to move on. I know it will be difficult to keep up a close relationship with the kids. I hope that in the future they will see that I was the stable one. For now, I’m just glad I can spend time with them in our home. I continue to take life one day at a time (praying for daily bread). This is such a change for me as I like to plan months and years in advanced. I can’t do that anymore. Maybe that is also part of God’s plan.

You’re starting to get it. Put your trust in God.
How many times did the Israelites want to go back to slavery when they were out in the desert? They didn’t trust in God’s plan for them. Give it all up to Him. :bowdown:

 

[tucdoc]

Styrgwillidar, you’re right, I can’t let a divorce define who I am. I’ve told my wife that focusing on the kids has helped me deal with these past few months, that I would have pursued divorce if it weren’t for the kids. I love them so much, and I want them to learn to not run away when confronted with difficult situations. I have become more aware of emotions, even feeling like she is to blame for everything and wanting her out of the house, much as she’s been expressing to me these months. I expressed those feelings to her, but then I let them go because I knew that problems can’t be solved dwelling on those feelings. I just with she would come to the same conclusion.

 

[SonCatcher]

She again told me this AM how much it hurt her that I wasn’t with her when her mother died in LA 6 years ago. She cannot forgive me for letting her down. ** I’ve explained why I couldn’t be there the whole time she was dying (I had to work) and I’ve apologized repeatedly**. She refuses to forgive me. How can she be like this? I feel she uses this as a starting point in saying how I don’t care about her, because I let her down on that occasion, and then she remembers others. She lives in the past, and refuses to focus on a future that would include me. I get sick in my stomach thinking that my marriage is over because she is unforgiving.
It pains me so.

You said before what you DID during the time her mother died (aside from keep your job). Whenever this comes up, remind her of that. Add to the list that you kept an income going so she could spend so much time with her family without having to worry about losing her home or lifestyle. It might not help her unforgiveness much now but may help her regain perspective. That even though you were not there, you made it possible for her to be there.

 

[Mater]

I have not read all the responses here, so forgive me if this is a repeat, or off base, but this has helped me. Both of you sound disastisfied with each other. There are always things she could do better, but you are only in control of you. If you are in a valid marriage, then you have a responsibility to God to do everything you can to be the best husband you can be, regardless of what she is doing (I’m not taking into account abuse here, because I haven’t seen you indicate that). So where do you start. I suggest a REALLY good confession. Try to clear out every serious sin you may have ever committed, even if at the time you didn’t realize they were serious and therefore perhaps weren’t culpable. Ask the Holy Spirit to scour your soul for any hidden sin that you maybe haven’t confessed, if you aren’t sure, confess it again. Especially think of sexual sins, i.e., fornication, contraception, pornography, masterbation, inappropriate sexual activity, adultery, etc. Also, keeping Holy the Sabbath sins, i.e. missing Mass, working and shopping on Sunday like it was a regular day, etc. I mention these because they are very common serious sins. Try to have your soul perfectly clean to receive all the sacramental graces from the Sacrament of Matrimony. Next, pray for and work for Peace in your marriage. Try to work towards peace and faithfulness to your vows, rather than some “Hallmark” idea of happiness.

I’m not saying all this because I think things are “your fault”. It’s just that you can only change yourself. Focus on doing the best for God and he will see this and slowly, the grace in your heart will increase and the grace that is made available for your wife will increase.

It may be that as others have said that there is a physical component, but even so, your prayers and sacrifices may contribute to a resolution there.

May God bless your faithfulness.

 

[styrgwillidar]

TucDoc,
I truly wish I knew the words that would help you. My heart and mind are still in chaos over my situation, my ex has never really been able to explain the why of it. But in the end it doesn’t change anything for now- she has free will and chose to leave. Just as you can not control your wife, but will have to deal with the consequences of her decision. I comfort myself at times by reminding myself that my vow was not just to my wife, it was also to my God and Savior.

My ex and I used a mediator vice a lawyer, we just sat down and went through how to split everything up together. She wasn’t into taking every dime she could have, I still respected her enough (she did give me 20 years of her life and 3 wonderful kids) to not begrudge her enough to live comfortably. We spoke realistically about the challenges of maintaining two households. And again, I’m still hoping that by being supportive and non-hostile, I leave her the option to come back if she has an epiphany that this isn’t what she wants after all. I don’t know if this would work for you and your wife.

I could go into all the details but, my ex-wife sounded very much like yours. She blamed everything on a loss of feelings for me, but that hasn’t been consistent with how she’s treated the kids. As I said above, 50% custody only lasted 2 weeks and she made decisions that even she admitted bore a high risk of damaging her relationship with them. But she did it anyway and every other weekend custody of the 2 became every other weekend with just 1 and now it’s at the point where she has to come here to visit with them. Or take them out somewhere, they can’t be in her home. All by her choices. The kids have come to the conclusion that this is all about her not wanting to be a mother anymore, wanting to just be single and young again.

I mention the above to again urge you to consider- You may be the better choice for primary custodian if you’re willing to commit to making your kids the priority, not complicating their lives any more than necessary. If you’re more likely to raise them in the faith.

Your kids have a right to evaluate their mother and form opinions based on her actions. Kids are very straightforward don’t care about what is legally right and wrong, or what folks can legally do. They assess based on moral right and wrong and what people should do. You shouldn’t explain/defend/condemn your wife’s actions to them. I can’t remember how many times I told my kids, that’s something you should bring up with your mom. Don’t comment to your kids one way or the other on what she does if you do separate.

BUT, don’t give up hope. Keep praying, God told us to be persistent like the old woman with the unjust judge. Plan for the worst but hope for the best. Read up on depression, try at least the book ‘Depression Fallout’,

It’s unfair that you are going through this, but God will use that experience. I may have gone through what I did with my ex-wife partly to help you, to share my experience and let you know you’re not alone. To reassure you that you can get through it with God’s help.

 

[tucdoc]

Styrgwillidar, thanks again for your insight. The part of divorce that really scares me is not being with my kids. I can make up the financial losses with time, and I can support myself with less so that alimony wouldn’t be as burdensome. But, the prospect of not being with my kids on a daily basis is sickening to me. My wife has not done anything heinous such that she would lose custody, and my work schedule will make it difficult to have even 50-50 custody. I doubt I will get full custody, as my wife wants to divorce me so she can be a better mother. She is ignoring how the kids will feel about divorce, she only sees it as a release from the hurt she has experienced since I won’t be around to remind her of the hurt.

 

[SonCatcher]

Heeding styrgwillidar’s advice, it would probably be best to allow the court to decide primary custody. Since your wife is still grieving the loss of her mother and refuses to see a counselor, she might not be able to provide the necessary environment for them. The issue isn’t desire so much as ability. Your counselors can help guide the court in this matter. (I have been told of cases where neither parent retained custody - fortunately, your situation doesn’t seem so extreme). Perhaps your attorney can draft a stated goal to show the court that though you agree your wife has more time/energy to be primary caregiver, you would be willing to accept if the judge finds you to be more capable at this time.

Your children are old enough to have a say so do not discount (or try to influence) their testimony.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Heeding styrgwillidar’s advice, it would probably be best to allow the court to decide primary custody. Since your wife is still grieving the loss of her mother and refuses to see a counselor, she might not be able to provide the necessary environment for them. The issue isn’t desire so much as ability. Your counselors can help guide the court in this matter. (I have been told of cases where neither parent retained custody - fortunately, your situation doesn’t seem so extreme). Perhaps your attorney can draft a stated goal to show the court that though you agree your wife has more time/energy to be primary caregiver, you would be willing to accept if the judge finds you to be more capable at this time.

Your children are old enough to have a say so do not discount (or try to influence) their testimony.

Very good advice.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Tucdoc,
Yeah, the toughest part of this was the two weeks my wife actually did 50% custody. My routine was to kiss the kids before leaving for work at 6:00 am. The mornings they weren’t here to kiss left me wandering in a daze.

My ex-wife refused to discuss how this was going to affect the kids because she was “perfectly aware of what this will do to them.” She was either lying or fooling herself, or incredibly selfish, because her choices have really driven them away from her emotionally and physically. Having done the single Dad thing for the last 8 months, I can’t stress how hard it is for one person to try and provide what the kids need. It really is much better for them to have both parents.

I told my ex-wife I would not be a barrier to her kids. So, I never got between her and the level of custody she was willing to have, while insisting I have shared custody. I have allowed her to visit them here in my home as she’s made it impossible/impractical at her home. She comes over in the morning and gets them ready for school and takes them. She takes my son to his Tae Kwon Do lessons, takes them to ortho appointments, I take them to CCD and some other activities. It’s weird and awkward at times but I think it’s better for the kids. They’re more comfortable dealing with her in their own environment and on their terms.

I think you need to sit down and talk with your wife about how you will deal with the kids TOGETHER. Not cut each other out, but define roles, boundaries, levels of access, what the kids schedule is and how you’ll support it. When the parent can call the kids when they’re with the other parent. My ex-wife calls the kids almost every night and we wrote into the separation/divorce agreement that she would have phone access to them. You need to be firm in insisting that you will have the level of access you desire, and get it in the legal agreement. It is common for the custodial parent to punish/play games with the non-custodial by inhibiting access. You need to make it clear that if she’s the primary custodian, she has an obligation to you AND THE KIDS to enable a full relationship between you. Getting in the way of that hurts the kids more than it will hurt you. And you getting in the way of their relationship with her will do the same. They will also tend to blame you for a bad relationship with their mom if you’ve inhibited access, even if you thought you were protecting them by doing so. Will you agree to screen friends of each other if they’re going to be around the kids a lot? I told my wife I expected her to take me to task if I fell in with people who were a bad influence on them. People do stupid things in these situations and I didn’t know how I’ld handle it.

Perhaps sitting down with her and calmly addressing issues about the kids may help her come to grips with the reality of what she’s contemplating. She will not be eliminating you from her life because you expect equal access to the kids. That the kids will be hurt by this no matter what you do because they will miss the non-custodial parent. My son’s prayer when we first separated was very specific, “God, please restore my family. And a family is a Mom and Dad living together with their kids!!”

Blinding Flash of The Obvious- A good mother does not rip apart their family unless they or their kids are in danger. If you are not a danger to your kids, doing this will not enable her to be a better mother, that’s not what this is about.

The discussion- if it is calm and matter of fact, may motivate her to reexamine her options. If she doesn’t, you will have laid the groundwork and clearly delineated the expectations and her obligations so you remain firmly in your kids lives. You must make it clear that you will hold her to the agreement, that the agreement is in control- not her. Calmly and firmly and giving her the time to decide if this is really what she wants for herself and her kids.

Again, I’m praying for you. God may not give you what you want, your wife has free will, but he will give you what you need.

 

[Marysann]

Tucdoc, don’t let your professional responsibilities prevent you from seeking full custody of your children if you think that would be in their best interest. A physician in our parish found himself in a situation similar to yours. He hired a nanny to care for his children while he was at work. Many intact families in which both parents work do this, if they can afford it. You know what is best for your children.

 

[tucdoc]

I want this limbo to be over. I want my wife to decide whether she is willing to spend the rest of her life with me or not. If not, then she might as well file for divorce rather than wait it out “for the kids” or for any other reason. I don’t want her counting down the days until she feels she can leave. If she wants to leave now, she should; otherwise, our marriage is a lie.

 

[Louie1983]

Tudoc,

I just wanted to say that I admire your courage and strength in the situation you are in, I’ve read through the last couple of pages of posts and not once have you ever put yourself ahead of your family.

I think St joseph would be proud of you and the way you gone about this so far.

 

[EasterJoy]

I want this limbo to be over. I want my wife to decide whether she is willing to spend the rest of her life with me or not. If not, then she might as well file for divorce rather than wait it out “for the kids” or for any other reason. I don’t want her counting down the days until she feels she can leave. If she wants to leave now, she should; otherwise, our marriage is a lie.

If she’s telling herself lies, don’t encourage her to act on those lies. Hang in there. Let her count days, and hope she wakes up before the countdown is over. Hope you can hang in there that long. If she is expecting you to tell lies about the state of your marriage, though, that is another matter.

Do you think your marriage is valid? If it is valid, it is the truth, no matter what lies your wife is telling herself about it. Don’t let her thinking infect yours. Living with you and keeping the social status and financial advantage of being a wife without actually being one is a lie, do not get me wrong. That makes her behavior and her thinking into a lie, not your marriage.

That doesn’t mean you are bound to lie down and take whatever horrible behavior she dishes out, that you have to help her maintain a false pretense. It does mean you could be trading a limbo for a purgatory if you encourage her to leave. The marriage will still exist, and you’ll have to live in abandonment. Keep that in mind, as you move forward. If this marriage stays together because you were the only one who kept it together when it was a mess, well, later on down the line, together is still together. Happy marriages have been through these things.

 

[tucdoc]

The reality of divorce is starting to get to me. I know that my wife doesn’t love me, and she really doesn’t care about me since she sees what she is putting me through. She just can’t get past her own pain and hurt, which she kept pent up for years, and for which she blames me despite my not knowing (“you should have known”). I know it will take months, and eventually I will have to move out of the house and not see my kids daily. The pain is terrible. Everybody, please keep praying that God grant me the peace I need to get through this ordeal.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Tucdoc,
If she has depression she isn’t feeling anything and is seeking things that stimulate her in an attempt to feel something. Please read some of the books I mentioned earlier, they could help you deal with this.

Whether you are in your kids daily life is up to you. Do - not - simply- give -that -up. You have a right to see them and depending on how quickly your wife wants the divorce means she will have to satisfy you as well. Like I said- my ex-wife comes over every day in the morning to take them to school. On breaks she does lunch as possible. Partly that is because I’m willing to do that for my children. Are you willing/able to swing by every am for breakfast with them? Or come by every night and take a walk with them?

If I were the one who had moved out I would have insisted on daily contact. Who is going to take them to Church? My ex-wife had said she was going to take them on her weekends, but never did while they were still with her on some weekends. One of the things I neglected on getting in the agreement because I took her at her word.

Keep praying to God for strength, don’t be in such a hurry to have things settled that you don’t fight and strive for the things that are important to you. It will be much harder to go back to court to amend an agreement than to get it right the first time. GET IT IN WRITING IN THE AGREEMENT- phone, visits, everything. I could easily refuse to have my ex-wife here because of the way our divorce agreement is written. It doesn’t specify daily visits just visitation with reasonable notification and agreement. Reasonable is open to interpretation. I could refuse to allow her to visit here and insist she go someplace else with them. But where would she go and would the kids want that? What’s better for them? I have enormous leverage in fighting any changes since the kids are settled into this routine now and that weighs heavily with the courts. My ex-wife counted on my love for her and the kids, even in this divorce she trusted me not to be an SOB. Depending on your wife - and I don’t know her, I’ve only heard your version- if it’s not in writing you can have a lot of problems. You don’t have to sign what her lawyer comes up with, it’s a negotiation not a take it or leave it.

It would be horrible (as well as too late) to look back on this when you’re 80 and wish you’ld done something differently.

Please don’t despair, you will get through this one way or another. Do not lose yourself along the way, don’t just acquiesce to her wishes- look out for your own and the kids.

I know how painful this can be, it’s easy to overlook the good- time with your kids, health, sunshine, friends, quiet moments reading the bible, good music (I’m partial to Disturbed and Pink) - amongst the bad. The missing intimacy both emotionally and physically. You will only travel this path once, try to think and act rationally and long term and not rashly based on emotion of the moment.

I keep running into men who’ve also gone through this. A common occurrence seems to be the woman realizing she’s made a mistake after around a year and wanting to try again. You may not be able to handle that, especially if she got involved with someone else in the interim. But if it’s being caused by a sickness (and depression has a physical basis in brain chemistry including some parts of the brain actually shrinking) and she gets treatment, carefully consider whether you can forgive and welcome her back like the prodigal son. That should have a bearing on how you act now, because if you allow things to get vicious, it could become impossible. Again, there is no problem with calmly and firmly stating your interests and concerns- including your concern and love for her that there is more going on, without it becoming a hostile confrontation. It is reasonable to look out after your own interests and no one else is going to do it for you.

 

[Tiribulus]

<<< The pain is terrible. Everybody, please keep praying that God grant me the peace I need to get through this ordeal.

Hebrews 12:4-16 NASB (caps are in the translation and indicate a quotation from the Old Testament) :

4-You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

5-and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD,
NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;

6-FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,
AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.”

7-It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8-But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9-Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10-For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11-All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

  12-Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13-and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

I haven’t been around in a while, but you should know that I am not making light of your burden. That said, if you are His then he WILL use this for your eventual mighty edification in molding you into the man of God He wants you to be. If you are not His, (yet) He may use this to make you His.

I am no prophet and claim no special revelation for you, but pain is the great persuader and depending on what exactly you mean by “peace” it just might be the very last thing you need at the moment. Believe you me my friend. You are hearing this from one who knows. He always wins. Seek His face and beseech Him that He reveal to you what He has for YOU to learn through this.

As counterintuitive as it might seem for now it just may save your marriage. Or it may not, but either way you’ll hear His voice “well done thou good and faithful servant… enter into the joy of your Master” Matt. 25.

Your sanctification and genuinely loving peaceable demeanor which, especially in a time like this is not possible without close communion with the living Christ, is what, if anything, will break your wife’s stiff necked heart.

BTW, you know I do not believe you are obligated to silently tolerate whatever torrent of ungodliness she throws your way, but I also agree with whoever said you should not encourage her to divorce you. That is the selfish pursuit of relief for YOU and is the kiss of death for your marriage AND a poisonous impediment to your discerning God’s purposes for you in this.

 

[Mater]

I agree with what some others have said, if your marriage is valid, it is dangerous for you to think about and talk about divorce with your wife. This is a temptation of the devil. When we promise “for better or for worse” few of us everimagine a “worse” of a spouse who doesn’t love us and shows no kindness or affection toward us, but that is a common “worse”. How can you endure this? How can you survive the limbo of not knowing if this will ever get better? Only with Christ, only by embracing the cross. Turn to him, run to him, cling to him!!! “Oh Lord, the thing that I want most is missing, but I will cling to you and trust you and ask your help in loving my wife as you love her.”

My prayers are with you. Grace is REAL and can transform us if we let it.