Wife has given up

[PeacefulFamily]

I think you’ve known that it was for real for a long time.

How do you really know what TucDoc knows? Has he told you that he’s known all along that this would end in divorce, and that he has accepted it?

If I were TucDoc, I’d be in a state of emotional shock.

It doesn’t matter how long he has known that there have been marital problems. TucDoc has emotionally and psychologically accepted that his wife does not love him. He is trying very hard to save his marriage.

This step that TucDoc has revealed, is the beginning of a possible divorce. (I say “possible” because none of us knows for sure that they’ll get a divorce). For a human being to psychologically accept this is EXTREMELY PAINFUL.

TucDoc says, “This is for real.” He’s saying: what I’ve been dreading all along is actually starting to happen, and I’m going to have to accept this painful reality.

I doubt that TucDoc has EVER been in a more emotionally and psychologically stressful situation. He needs our compassion, not our judgment, at this time.

 

[PeacefulFamily]

It is time for your wife to agree to the counselling …

From what I understand in reading previous posts, TucDoc has been wanting to go to counseling (either separate or apart) for quite some time, but his wife refuses. So, there’s no point in you saying the above; he is quite aware of that.

 

[PeacefulFamily]

Your children’s future really is at stake.

TucDoc loves his children more than you can imagine. Emotion-laden statements such as yours above are not helpful at this time.

 

[PeacefulFamily]

I think your statement about YOU paying for it speaks a bit to What EasterJoy is saying about valuing her time. You don’t value it.

No, TucDoc’s statement about HIM paying for it is just what it is. You’re reading too much into it. He is in incredible emotional pain, and doesn’t want the divorce to happen, no matter who pays for it.

It’s only natural for TucDoc to resent having to partially pay for a totally unwanted divorce. I would feel pretty resentful myself.

Does anybody here have any real evidence that TucDoc either:

1. doesn’t believe his wife contributes monetarily to the home
   or 2) doesn’t value her time?

I’m also a SAHM. It’s easy to feel unappreciated, but we don’t need to assume that all SAHMs feel that way.

 

[PeacefulFamily]

And sadly, you’ve made it clear that perhaps more often than not, sex isn’t so much about couple intimacy but your release. And so you’re kind of asking for overtime thinking you don’t have to pay overtime. And perhaps I’m reading more into it. But If I finally caught a break to clean the kitchen after the kids went down, and my husband acted as though he just needed a proper reseptacle for sperm… yeah… forget it. He could offer to help me fly through the kitchen, and THEN we could have some mutual fun/love.

Wow, this is rather harsh, and completely inappropriate! TucDoc has in NO WAY made it clear that sex is about his “release”. How on earth did you get that idea??

TucDoc dearly loves his wife, who is rejecting him. I cannot imagine how your rude comments are helpful to him in any way. He is in pain. Please try to be compassionate to this man. His world is falling apart NOW. He is probably going through the worst crisis in his life, and you’re accusing him of THIS?

 

[PeacefulFamily]

Regarding Thankgiving. Why does it have to be awkward? Or does the whole family know your business? And they are going to treat your wife with disrespect? If that’s the case, have dinner at home. Your kids don’t need their last family dinner to be fully tense.

It will probably be quite a shock to TucDoc’s family that he and his wife are even having problems, much less possibly divorcing. If his family in San Diego know about all this, the situation will be awkward, even if everyone treats one another civilly. If they don’t know, it will be awkward and stressful for TucDoc, because he’ll be pretending that everything in his marriage is normal, while inside he’s in emotional anguish.

 

[PeacefulFamily]

We have a rule in our house. WE are parents 24/7. We both have day time jobs. While DH is at work it’s my job to do a whole bunch of stuff. But when he comes home, there’s STILL home life to manage. And we both share in those hours. It’s not just me for the remainder of the day. Granted I do the middle of the night stuff so he’s coherent at work. As yeah, I can afford it a bit more to stumble through the house cleaning…

We need to consider that TucDoc’s wife may unnecessarily be a perfectionist with her housecleaning. He said the kitchen was clean enough, which means: IT WAS CLEAN ENOUGH. He can still completely value her housework, and her time, and hold the view that the kitchen really was clean enough, so let’s have couple time!

It’s very possible that TucDoc’s wife is using housework as an excuse to avoid him. She has found another man whom she likes better, and finds it emotionally less stressful to simply avoid her husband. If she divorces her husband, she is attempting to avoid him completely, forever (though there will be the children’s visiting rights). By breaking ties with TucDoc, and blaming him for things, she doesn’t have to face the reality that she was WRONG to have continued to have an inappropriate relationship with the other man.

 

[faithfully]

My comments may be overly direct/blunt… I can agree to that…

And I’m not trying to lay blame. Because it’s been clear that TucDoc does NOT want this divorce and is trying to figure out how to make it stop.

And actually that’s the ONLY reason for my SPECULATION… because the unfortunate thing that is clear, is that his wife claims to have been dissed somewhere along the line… and it’s news to him… And sadly news that’s coming at the same time she’s announcing she wants a divorce.

Yes, she could be making up stories to justify some crazy agenda. Entirely possible.

In the end… Tucdoc… I don’t mean to be offensive to you. I know you’re hurting. I’m just talking to you the way I would a friend. Just totally direct… You know where I may be off the mark…

 

[PeacefulFamily]

When you are the one whose time is deemed “flexible”, then trust me, that can come to seem like “less valuable”.

No, I do not believe this is true. I’m a SAHM, so my time IS more flexible than my husband’s. That’s just how it is. I’m just as busy as my husband (and maybe more so), but I am more free than he is when it comes to organizing my time. That doesn’t mean my time is more or less valuable than his. It’s just that I have more control over how to organize my time, than he does.

I have seen that in order for my marriage to thrive, my husband and I MUST spend quality time, just the two of us, together. This includes time that does and/or does not involve sex. This couple time cannot happen while he is at work, so I attempt do my housework, homeschooling, and caring for the children while he is at work. For my marriage to thrive, I MUST set aside time for just us, the couple, even if I’m behind on the laundry, for example.

I need to go do more laundry, which is what I’ve been doing in between these posts

 

[EasterJoy]

From what I understand in reading previous posts, TucDoc has been wanting to go to counseling (either separate or apart) for quite some time, but his wife refuses. So, there’s no point in you saying the above; he is quite aware of that.

a) Asking her to do it so everyone might survive better after the divorce is different than asking her to do it to prevent the divorce
b) The judge may require it

 

[EasterJoy]

No, I do not believe this is true. I’m a SAHM, so my time IS more flexible than my husband’s. That’s just how it is. I’m just as busy as my husband (and maybe more so), but I am more free than he is when it comes to organizing my time. That doesn’t mean my time is more or less valuable than his. It’s just that I have more control over how to organize my time, than he does.

I have seen that in order for my marriage to thrive, my husband and I MUST spend quality time, just the two of us, together. This includes time that does and/or does not involve sex. This couple time cannot happen while he is at work, so I attempt do my housework, homeschooling, and caring for the children while he is at work. For my marriage to thrive, I MUST set aside time for just us, the couple, even if I’m behind on the laundry, for example.

I need to go do more laundry, which is what I’ve been doing in between these posts

I am not saying that you don’t make your schedule so that it fits his. I’m saying that it shows respect to recognize that maybe you do actually have a schedule and a list of things that you need to do. I’m saying that if he shows up when you’re the middle of something and expects you to drop it and put it off to a time that suits him, that shows he doesn’t think your plans have too much importance. It is not that hard for him to foresee when he’s going to have a spare minute.

I drop things all of the time because my husband needs me to. It is irritating, though, when he could have given me a heads-up and didn’t bother to do it.

Could he say, “If you’re doing housework at 10 pm, you’re a lousy scheduler?” Well, yes, he could. He might even be right. I’m saying that this is not exactly the way to initiate an evening of emotional intimacy.

That is water under the bridge, except for the realization that harmony and the need to be right don’t go very well together. Sometimes, you have to see someone is doing something all wrong, and bite your tongue.

 

[PeacefulFamily]

a) Asking her to do it so everyone might survive better after the divorce is different than asking her to do it to prevent the divorce
b) The judge may require it

I completely agree with you. However, I’m not sure it would be prudent for him to “ask” her to do anything at this point, but we’ll leave that up to his good judgment. Hopefully, the judge WILL require it.

 

[tucdoc]

PeacefulFamily, faithfully and EasterJoy, thank you for you candor and honest opinions. I have my opinions and beliefs, while my wife has hers. In our case the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I do value different viewpoints, as it helps in coming closer to the truth.

I saw the priest today, and he again reminded me that I can do nothing about my wife filing for divorce. I can only take care of myself. I have been praying for strength and peace. Yes, this is the most stressful situation I’ve ever encountered and I’m an emotional wreck. I talked to several family members today, and this forum helps too. I have to be strong for my children, myself, and even my STBXW since we all depend on me. I also cannot compromise my profession. PLEASE, EVERYBODY KEEP PRAYING FOR ME.

 

[Marie5890]

PeacefulFamily, faithfully and EasterJoy, thank you for you candor and honest opinions. I have my opinions and beliefs, while my wife has hers. In our case the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I do value different viewpoints, as it helps in coming closer to the truth.

I saw the priest today, and he again reminded me that I can do nothing about my wife filing for divorce. I can only take care of myself. I have been praying for strength and peace. Yes, this is the most stressful situation I’ve ever encountered and I’m an emotional wreck. I talked to several family members today, and this forum helps too. I have to be strong for my children, myself, and even my STBXW since we all depend on me. I also cannot compromise my profession. PLEASE, EVERYBODY KEEP PRAYING FOR ME.

Prayer, TucDoc.
We all know what it’s like to have loved ones who let us down (Look at Our Lord in Gethsemane when His own chosen apostles left Him)

You have my prayers. Can I offer a suggestion to help you get thru the brutual reality of the weeks and months to come??

Meditate on the Sorrowful mysteries (Agony in the Garden, Scourging at the pillar, Crowning of thorns, Carrying of the Cross, Crucifixtion.)

Meditating on these mysteries wont take away your pain, your cross, but it will give it all perspective and even strength to endure and get thru the upcoming pain. And graces will overflowing.

God bless you, your wife and your children.
I know this makes you bleed at so many pores.

 

[tucdoc]

We remain in limbo. My wife is still unhappy, still blames me, and is not interested in reconciling. Yet, she has has not filed for divorce. I cut the credit card limit in half, because we will each eventually have to get by on half of my salary. I am no longer using “our” card. She reached the limit and is becoming aware that she will have to be more responsible with her spending. She was still able to buy household necessities as she just put in on the debit card. She is just realizing that her lifestyle will be affected by a divorce. Maybe this is what God wants, that she realize how materialistic she has become. I explained this is not about control, as she can still buy what is needed, but rather it is about responsibility. Honestly, she cannot afford a five-figure credit limit on half of my salary, and neither can I.

I have tried to sympathize with her unhappiness, but I really don’t see that I’m the root cause. She admits that things from her childhood have been triggered by what I’ve said to her. I’ve explained that we cause our own suffering. Hurt is what happens to us, suffering is what we do to ourselves. I don’t know why she rejects this perspective.

 

[faithfully]

I have tried to sympathize with her unhappiness, but I really don’t see that I’m the root cause. She admits that things from her childhood have been triggered by what I’ve said to her. I’ve explained that we cause our own suffering. Hurt is what happens to us, suffering is what we do to ourselves. I don’t know why she rejects this perspective.

Because she’s in pain. Real emotional pain. And as you’re witnessing, and I’m sure many of us have witnessed or even experienced it is very hard to take back the control. It becomes near impossible to admit that we can actually ALLOW ourselves to be happy.

But these emotional traumas are a cancer to our well being. If we don’t seek treatment, we die emotionally. Our relationships fail. We have nothing to give.

I don’t think suffering is what we do to ourselves. It’s very real. However, we can choose not to let the offense and the suffering to continue.

So think of this as a real illness. She might have acquired asthama as a child. How should that be handled as an adult? Even if her parents poorly managed her condition, or the medical advances back then just barely kept her alive. What if the real damage from the asthma wasn’t apparent until adulthood? What would SHE do today? What would YOU do today? And if you’re behavior, say smoking triggered an attack would you refuse to stop smoking? What if you JUST learned it was your cigarette smoke?I mean, you’ve been smoking for YEARS with no obvious issue? Yet, her lungs have been taking a beating? And they are finally unable to keep up? Could you stop? Could you work at stopping? It often takes time for this… BUT COULD YOU CHANGE??? I mean, she’s been asthmatic since childhood? You’re not the ROOT of the problem. But you can certainly figure out how NOT to add to the problem. Which I think you’re working on. And she needs to recognize that she’s not necessarily doomed to violent asthma attacks if you BOTH go educate yourselves on how to prevent it. And well, her asthma sounds quite treatable… but she’s gonna have to choose to do so? So, does she take care of herself or not? Just walking out of a smoking building does not cure her illness. It just stops her from having an attack today, in that building.

Or you can tell her how not to have one. She can stamp her feet about how you don’t know what it’s like… She can continue to have them, and then … well, eventually it’s over.

She admits that a REAL, VALID childhood problem is permeating her adult married life. And it’s being aggrevated. If she knew how to stop it she would have. Right??? Or would she just be a martyr for no apparent reason? OR would she seek the best medical attention available, and get things under control. While fighting to have the building she works in switched to smoke free. And the smokers may pout, but they soon realize they are a contributing factor to death by 2nd hand smoke… and if they LOVE their neighbors or more importantly their family… They quit. But they may need professional help too! It’s NOT EASY!

Keep bringing up counciling. Retrouville really sounds awesome. It sounds hard core, cut to the chase, here’s how to act counciling… I’m pretty sure there is one in your neck of the woods in the next few weeks. WHAT has she got to lose by going to a lecture on improved marital situation??? and learning a few ways to create a her environment??? At worse you both realize, it really is over…making the choice to divorce more clear. At best… OMG… YOU SOLVE THIS PROBLEM… Or at least see some light at the end of the tunnel… and you BOTH deserve to move forward.

Standing in stagnant water is not healthy for anyone.

Rinse, Repeat…

 

[tucdoc]

Stagnant water is what we’ve been standing in for 6 months. This is how long I’ve asked us to go to marriage counseling. I guess I could ask yet again.

Her solution to her unhappiness is my leaving the home. I realize I’ve said hurtful things, often times unaware of hurting her as she said nothing at the time, and I’ve repeatedly apologized for them. Most of those episodes occured in the past, which she refuses to forget. Some of the things that hurt her were confronting her about her “friends”. I’ve been hurt through this also, so I admit that I wasn’t as cool and levelheaded when I talked to her about these guys. Should I just “let her go” and not saying anything when she wants to see these "friends’. If she values her freedom so much then she should be actively pursuing the divorce. But again, she wants her comfortable lifestyle. I hate my situation, and if I still didn’t love her I would have given up by now.

 

[faithfully]

I know… You are both hurting. I think her behavior is a classic example of free will exercised in a fashion that makes you hurt…yet you love her anyway.

Yes, ask again. I don’t see how just sitting and staring at each other is going to improve anything.

What about saying something like… Look, I can’t take just sitting here waiting for you to decide if you can handle being on your own or not. I think until you decide, We need to actively work on the relationship. Admit that you don’t have all the answers. And would she please go with you (can you go alone?) to Retrouville.

I would appeal (I think) to her motherhood… Does she really want to teach the kids that marriage isn’t something worth fighting for? That family isn’t something worth fighting for? That her children aren’t something worth fighting for (although she’ll do that in a divorce) That when it feels to0 hard, yet no on has cheated, the house isn’t being taken away, no one is dying that you don’t give it your all. What will your children do when faced with serious crisis. What if your daughter grows up, marries and has a child with special needs? How will she cope? What lessons will she have learned to do so? The lesson to run?

I don’t know enough about baseball to put this in terms she will get. Except that she’s not even bothering to pick up the bat. It’s like she’s stepped infront of the ball, and chooses to walk. Every player she admires, may have some natural gift, but they have to WORK for it. They practice being the best players every day, THEN they go play. They don’t step on a field in bad shape, without swinging a bat all week, or catching or throwing a ball. I mean, maybe she’s just a spectator in life or, Maybe she’s just fare weather fan… I don’t know…

I think you do ask again. Ask her to help you fix this until she either helps or leaves.

I also think she doesn’t want to go get a physical and get hormones check and such because then she has to face that her misery is something she herself could have corrected…

Again, taking the power and control into her own hands is scaring her and hard to cope with…

 

[EasterJoy]

Stagnant water is what we’ve been standing in for 6 months. This is how long I’ve asked us to go to marriage counseling. I guess I could ask yet again.

Her solution to her unhappiness is my leaving the home. I realize I’ve said hurtful things, often times unaware of hurting her as she said nothing at the time, and I’ve repeatedly apologized for them. Most of those episodes occured in the past, which she refuses to forget. Some of the things that hurt her were confronting her about her “friends”. I’ve been hurt through this also, so I admit that I wasn’t as cool and levelheaded when I talked to her about these guys. Should I just “let her go” and not saying anything when she wants to see these "friends’. If she values her freedom so much then she should be actively pursuing the divorce. But again, she wants her comfortable lifestyle. I hate my situation, and if I still didn’t love her I would have given up by now.

Do everything you have to in order to keep from fighting with her, but I think you are wise to stay in your home with your children for as long as possible. This may be what gives you the strength to control yourself in every way. If she wants to leave, you can’t stop her, of course. Otherwise, since you are not a threat to the welfare of your children and not a threat to her, since you are being faithful and not abusing drugs or alcohol, if you remain calm she will have no pretense to throw you out. Stay with them, where you can be their father every day, no matter what. Do not leave voluntarily. Do not allow her to push you away from your children, even if she pushes you away from her. Do not leave your home open to strange men to come in and take your place. Be there for your family, even if your wife won’t be there for you. Sometimes, perservance wins out where no direct action could.

 

[SonCatcher]

I have tried to sympathize with her unhappiness, but I really don’t see that I’m the root cause.

You aren’t, naturally. Happiness comes and goes. Circumstantial happiness or unhappiness is not what really matters, though. If someone looks for happiness in external circumstances, he’s in for a wild ride (those around him, too). Most pre-marriage counseling (e.g. pre-Cana or Engaged Encounter) instructs couples to not expect their mates to make them happy, as they will surely fail.

Joy is what matters. Joy comes from within and may make unhappy times easier to bear. God is a sure source of joy in life.

This does not let you off the hook, however. You still must do what you can to ease your wife’s pain.