Wife has given up

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Tucdoc,

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you are doing right by your kids, being the parent they need. As always, you are in my prayers.
 
The_Bucket said:
Tell her to go ahead and basically burn your marriage contract. Tell her that you’ll pray for her. And then just go out a few nights and do whatever. If she asks, just casually say you met some new female friends and leave it at that. Gets the hamster wheels turning.

Of course, this advice is predicated on there not being a genuinely serious issue (infidelity, abuse, long-term breakdown of communication) and you genuinely not screwing something up.
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I’m sorry - BAD advice. Ever heard of turn the other cheek? Don’t fight fire with fire. Being a man isn’t about sticking it to them when they’re in the wrong. Show her you are faithful to your marriage - that you won’t give up. Give her every reason to see you are the strong man this marriage needs, not a tit-for-tat player that wants to give her back a dose of her own medicine. Two wrongs NEVER make a right.
 
Hi Tucdoc,

I am so sorry to hear of the trials of the past year. Your wife’s selfishness has affected so many people…prayers going out to all of you.

God bless you and strengthen you; Holy Spirit comfort you.
CEM
 
The tough thing for me right now is following my attorney’s advice when my wife contacts me asking for more money. I am to not give any response, either positive or negative. I would prefer to explain why she should be more careful with the money she already has, but I’m not suppossed to.

I’m on vacation with the kids, I suggest activities, but try not to just be the “fun” parent. I’ve already made mistakes in discussing the divorce with them, but I’ve admitted to them it was inappropriate to bring it up in that way. All of us need to learn about boundaries through this process.
 
tucdoc said:
The tough thing for me right now is following my attorney’s advice when my wife contacts me asking for more money. I am to not give any response, either positive or negative. I would prefer to explain why she should be more careful with the money she already has, but I’m not suppossed to.

I’m on vacation with the kids, I suggest activities, but try not to just be the “fun” parent. I’ve already made mistakes in discussing the divorce with them, but I’ve admitted to them it was inappropriate to bring it up in that way. All of us need to learn about boundaries through this process.
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You’re doing great. You’re admitting you’re not perfect. You’ve been through a very humbling experience.

Your wife has to learn to live with the consequences of her decisions. Keep praying for her. Prayer will not necessarily change her, but it will change your heart so that you can respond to her requests with Christian charity and dignity.

Bless you.
 
tucdoc said:
The tough thing for me right now is following my attorney’s advice when my wife contacts me asking for more money. I am to not give any response, either positive or negative. I would prefer to explain why she should be more careful with the money she already has, but I’m not suppossed to.

I’m on vacation with the kids, I suggest activities, but try not to just be the “fun” parent. I’ve already made mistakes in discussing the divorce with them, but I’ve admitted to them it was inappropriate to bring it up in that way. All of us need to learn about boundaries through this process.
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What is his reason for not saying anything? It seems that a none response would be “negative” Has he given you scripted responses? This would be hard for me too…
 
tucdoc said:
The tough thing for me right now is following my attorney’s advice when my wife contacts me asking for more money. I am to not give any response, either positive or negative. I would prefer to explain why she should be more careful with the money she already has, but I’m not suppossed to.

I’m on vacation with the kids, I suggest activities, but try not to just be the “fun” parent. I’ve already made mistakes in discussing the divorce with them, but I’ve admitted to them it was inappropriate to bring it up in that way. All of us need to learn about boundaries through this process.
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You can’t teach a pig to sing. You’ll just frustrate yourself and annoy the pig.

I am sure she has heard you explain how you think she ought to manage her finances. She has probably thrown fits of anger and frustration while hearing you explain how you think she ought to manage your joint finances, and nothing is going to change now that they aren’t yours any more. Your lawyer is right: It is time to let go and let her finances be her finances. Not only is there more peace of mind that way. Sometimes you are legally compelled to give facts, but from a legal standpoint, it is usually best to keep your opinions to yourself. Even from a domestic standpoint, it can only get twisted or repeated incorrectly. IOW: A comment of substance can only hurt you. Don’t go there.

Besides, as you will learn as your kids get older, there gets to be a point where explaining the same thing one more time is just an invitation to argue the matter. Since you don’t want to re-open the question, don’t re-open the discussion. Everything that needs to be said has been said. You have nothing to teach her that she can’t learn from common sense and rudimentary study of personal finances. It is up to her to learn to live with it, and she probably won’t start her work until she realizes she is far past getting a conversation about it from you. The best response is along the lines of: “I’m sorry you feel that way, but the arrangement is what it is. We will both have to learn live with it.” Repeat, repeat, repeat, as necessary.

As far as the kids go, this is where you actually have a teaching opportunity. You can’t always be the “fun” parent, you don’t want to be the “slave” parent, but it does not hurt to be the “good” parent, even when you aren’t being the “fun” parent. “You are good workers. If you practice that, you’re going to have a habit you’ll always be glad you have. Trust me, it comes in handy. It isn’t always fun, but you’re good at it, and it doesn’t get easier to learn than it is now. Besides, it can be fun if you make a bit of a game of it. Let me show you…” A work ethic is a positive thing to have, and it gives people accomplishments they can take pleasure and pride in. People without a work ethic suffer for it. Don’t forget to emphasize that, too.
 
EasterJoy said:
Besides, as you will learn as your kids get older, there gets to be a point where explaining the same thing one more time is just an invitation to argue the matter. Since you don’t want to re-open the question, don’t re-open the discussion. Everything that needs to be said has been said. You have nothing to teach her that she can’t learn from common sense and rudimentary study of personal finances. It is up to her to learn to live with it, and she probably won’t start her work until she realizes she is far past getting a conversation about it from you. The best response is along the lines of**: “I’m sorry you feel that way, but the arrangement is what it is. We will both have to learn live with it.”** Repeat, repeat, repeat, as necessary.
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I like this. 👍

My kids’ school counselor said you can’t argue with teen-ages, they will always win. I guess that applies to some adults as well.

When my kids tried to argue with me, I’d say, “Because I’m your mom, and I love you more than anything in the world!”
 
Everyone, thank you for your words of encouragement. This has been a humbling experience. I wish I could do more to keep the kids from the harmful effects of this divorce. But, the conflict will continue as long as my wife has unrealistic expectations of my ability to support her moving forward. I guess “peace at all costs” in the marriage wasn’t the best long-term strategy. I certainly won’t be able to “buy” my children’s affection, which is a good thing.
 
Hi there… it sounds like you are doing the best you possibly can, given how emotionally, financially, and legally difficult any divorce is. You are learning, and trying to move on, and know where it is hard. 👍 Doing better than most so far! Kudos on taking the kids on vacation, it’s a great idea to just get away sometimes…
 
tucdoc said:
Everyone, thank you for your words of encouragement. This has been a humbling experience. I wish I could do more to keep the kids from the harmful effects of this divorce. But, the conflict will continue as long as my wife has unrealistic expectations of my ability to support her moving forward. I guess “peace at all costs” in the marriage wasn’t the best long-term strategy. I certainly won’t be able to “buy” my children’s affection, which is a good thing.
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Keep an eye on her LAWYER… and also, talk to your lawyer about this, and get the down low on her lawyer…

Reason: I will never forget when a dear friend told us his parents were getting a divorce. It was a HUGE shock to all of us, and we were late teens. It took 10 YEARS to finally settle.

She kept digging for $$. All at the suggestion of her idiot lawyer. This lawyer did NOT look out for her clients best interst. And IMO should be sued for what she caused everyone…

A long drawn out, painful divorce for kids… Dad stressed to the max, and mom ending up totally broke, because when she finally decided to get unemotional about it and call it quits she owed her lawyer a lot more $$ than she probably got in her settlement… HAD SHE TAKEN the first very generous offer… she’d be VERY well off… and they would have all been able to move on quickly…

DO MORE RESEARCH… find out if her lawyer is more interested in his pocket book… get that info shared SOMEHOW!!!

Hang tight…you’re going for the worst ride…
 
faithfully said:
Keep an eye on her LAWYER… and also, talk to your lawyer about this, and get the down low on her lawyer…

Reason: I will never forget when a dear friend told us his parents were getting a divorce. It was a HUGE shock to all of us, and we were late teens. It took 10 YEARS to finally settle.

She kept digging for $$. All at the suggestion of her idiot lawyer. This lawyer did NOT look out for her clients best interst. And IMO should be sued for what she caused everyone…

A long drawn out, painful divorce for kids… Dad stressed to the max, and mom ending up totally broke, because when she finally decided to get unemotional about it and call it quits she owed her lawyer a lot more $$ than she probably got in her settlement… HAD SHE TAKEN the first very generous offer… she’d be VERY well off… and they would have all been able to move on quickly…

DO MORE RESEARCH… find out if her lawyer is more interested in his pocket book… get that info shared SOMEHOW!!!

Hang tight…you’re going for the worst ride…
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I had a friend whose husband’s lawyer did that. She ended up having $20,000 in legal expenses to fight her husband’s irrational lawyer. She was able to recoup the portion due to the inappropriate demands of the husband’s lawyer.

There are set caps in place for how much has to pay.

Tucdoc’s wife apparently wants more than she is entitled to according to the laws. She has found she must modify her lifestyle now, but is unable to do so. This is why she is directly petitioning Tucdoc and not agreeing to the terms hammered out by the lawyers and Tucdoc.

Am I right about this Tucdoc?
 
tucdoc said:
I guess “peace at all costs” in the marriage wasn’t the best long-term strategy.
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I don’t know that any strategy could have changed what your wife chose or is choosing to do. Heaven knows, what you knew to do, what you could do, you did, and when you knew better, you did better. That’s about all anyone can ever do.

Be good to your kids, be civilized to your wife for their sake, be firm and fair for everyone’s sake, and don’t beat up on yourself because there are things about your family’s life that you didn’t ask for and you can’t change.

You know, all the Serenity Prayer stuff. You aren’t the Higher Power here, and that arrangement is just right!
 
The first offer I made when we started mediation 6 months ago was the best offer, but her lawyer took issue with some of the provisions, so she rejected it. But she is also not following her lawyer’s advice, in that he recommended selling the house, which she refuses to do. I’ve accepted that I cannot change her mind, only she can. Thus, the process continues.

I will be meeting with the kid’s therapist next week, and will inform her that the conflicts will continue given my wife’s expectations. Giving in to her demands might diffuse some of the tension, but I don’t feel its the right approach in the long-run, for her or the kids. I don’t want them to learn that getting your way is just a matter of making enough of a fuss. I have to be the better example for them, even if it makes their mom “unhappy”.
 
tucdoc said:
The first offer I made when we started mediation 6 months ago was the best offer, but her lawyer took issue with some of the provisions, so she rejected it. But she is also not following her lawyer’s advice, in that he recommended selling the house, which she refuses to do. I’ve accepted that I cannot change her mind, only she can. Thus, the process continues.

I will be meeting with the kid’s therapist next week, and will inform her that the conflicts will continue given my wife’s expectations. Giving in to her demands might diffuse some of the tension, but I don’t feel its the right approach in the long-run, for her or the kids. I don’t want them to learn that getting your way is just a matter of making enough of a fuss. I have to be the better example for them, even if it makes their mom “unhappy”.
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Money that you give to your wife is also money you won’t have when your kids need money not so many years from now. Young adults very often need a cash infusion in order to take advantage of an educational or career opportunity. At that age, we are poorly prepared to take on unexpected major expenses. Until your wife changes her spending habits, she’ll never have a penny to spare for them.

Even if you’re not spending the money your wife wants on yourself, save it for them, and for your retirement.

It is also money your wife is not saving for her own retirement. If you waver and decide to help her, be resolved to help her when she is too old to work her own way out of her financial fix. That is where she is going to come up short. (Don’t share this plan with her, though! Ooo, I predict she will be mad!)

Speaking of which, have you written a new will since your divorce became final? You need to think about where you want your assets to go and how you want them handled, should you meet with an untimely death. If your wife were to gain control of assets meant for your children while they were still minors, the funds might not be used according to your wishes.
 
Tucdoc,
I just went on a Retrouvaille Weekend… Before the weekend, we were headed for divorce, but on the weekend, we decided to give the weekend another chance… Love and Marriage is a decision- you both have to decide what you want to do and then do it! Staying in misery just isn’t fair for either of you… God wants so so much more for you in your marriage!!! Sign up, and go on a Retrouvaille Weekend… You’ll be so glad you did.
We all have a stake in each other’s marriages- We will be praying for you!
Crabbie Man
 
EasterJoy said:
Money that you give to your wife is also money you won’t have when your kids need money not so many years from now. …

Even if you’re not spending the money your wife wants on yourself, save it for them, and for your retirement. …

Speaking of which, have you written a new will since your divorce became final? You need to think about where you want your assets to go and how you want them handled, should you meet with an untimely death. If your wife were to gain control of assets meant for your children while they were still minors, the funds might not be used according to your wishes.
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Excellent points from EasterJoy. You need to treat your wife like a kid throwing a tantrum (about carseat or whatever) if you give in it lets them know you have a breaking point it’s just a matter of complaining long enough to reach it. Do act in your own best interest, no one else will.

I wrote my will so that it establishes a trust into which everything I have, including life insurance payouts will go. It also includes my house. I picked a trustee other than my ex-wife whom I trust to look out after my kids interests and who won’t care what my ex has to say. That is, it isn’t someone who is also a relative or friendly with my ex or could conceivably have some interest in pleasing my ex. That’s important, because they will be responsible for ensuring that my assets are managed to support my children. My ex (or whomever she’s with) can’t use or manipulate the funds. She will still be the guardian but she won’t be managing the kids money, and their money won’t be used to make her mortgage/rent payments. They will be paying for house that they’ll own and receive the benefit from through the trust. The trust will be maintained until the last one is through college vice each of the kids getting some specific share. It will be splitting whatever is left after that point. Don’t know if that helps you think about what you’ll do.
 
styrgwillidar said:
Excellent points from EasterJoy. You need to treat your wife like a kid throwing a tantrum (about carseat or whatever) if you give in it lets them know you have a breaking point it’s just a matter of complaining long enough to reach it. Do act in your own best interest, no one else will.

I wrote my will so that it establishes a trust into which everything I have, including life insurance payouts will go. It also includes my house. I picked a trustee other than my ex-wife whom I trust to look out after my kids interests and who won’t care what my ex has to say. That is, it isn’t someone who is also a relative or friendly with my ex or could conceivably have some interest in pleasing my ex. That’s important, because they will be responsible for ensuring that my assets are managed to support my children. My ex (or whomever she’s with) can’t use or manipulate the funds. She will still be the guardian but she won’t be managing the kids money, and their money won’t be used to make her mortgage/rent payments. They will be paying for house that they’ll own and receive the benefit from through the trust. The trust will be maintained until the last one is through college vice each of the kids getting some specific share. It will be splitting whatever is left after that point. Don’t know if that helps you think about what you’ll do.
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Yes, at this point estate planning is going to go far beyond changing your will. It has to take into account both what could happen to your assets & children after you die and possible legal maneuvers your wife might try to use to get at some money.
 
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