Wife has given up

[EasterJoy]

All of last year I apologized for insulting her, for making her feel used sexually, and for generally not appreciating her. She says I haven’t been nice to her, which is true in that I would confront her overspending. I’ve told her how I felt disrespected when she would spend regardless of what I would say, not to mention the disrespect of her discussing her “friends” with our children. Just a few days ago I told her that she is not the only victim, she is not the only one who has been hurt in all of this. She didn’t want to here that. We could have gone to Retroville this weekend, but I had told her she would have to be willing to participate by listening and sharing. All she wants to do is complain and deflect any blame from her to me. I’ve done what I can to earn her trust. I’m ready to move on.

If she doesn’t want to join you and “do a fearless moral inventory”, as they put it in the 12-step programs, then there isn’t much point in counselling.

As for being “not nice”, I’d like to share a little something that St. Therese of Liseux, aka “the Little Flower”, had to say about giving corrections:

“Goodness should not degenerate into weakness. When one has scolded someone justly, it’s necessary to let it alone, without letting oneself soften to the point of self torment over having given pain, seeing someone suffer and weep. To run after the pained one in order to console her would be to do her more harm than good. Leaving her to herself is to force her to run to the Good God in order to see her wrong and humble herself. To do otherwise, habituating her to receive consolation after a merited scolding, would be to make her always act thusly in similar circumstances, like a spoiled infant who dances about in a rage crying until its mother comes to dry its tears.”

The saints know that being good and acting so as to always be well-liked are not the same thing.

 

[kbachler]

If she doesn’t want to join you and “do a fearless moral inventory”, as they put it in the 12-step programs, then there isn’t much point in counselling.

As for being “not nice”, I’d like to share a little something that St. Therese of Liseux, aka “the Little Flower”, had to say about giving corrections:

“Goodness should not degenerate into weakness. When one has scolded someone justly, it’s necessary to let it alone, without letting oneself soften to the point of self torment over having given pain, seeing someone suffer and weep. To run after the pained one in order to console her would be to do her more harm than good. Leaving her to herself is to force her to run to the Good God in order to see her wrong and humble herself. To do otherwise, habituating her to receive consolation after a merited scolding, would be to make her always act thusly in similar circumstances, like a spoiled infant who dances about in a rage crying until its mother comes to dry its tears.”

The saints know that being good and acting so as to always be well-liked are not the same thing.

But there is also a point to learning to take things a step at a time. She hasn’t shown any ability to make a leap to accepting criticism. Getting her INTO a meeting is the first step. Keeping her there is the next step. Showing that he (Tucdoc) is willing to take criticism, willing to ask questions, willing to learn is the third. (She has no reason to believe he has changed, and she has no model to think she should or can change herself.) Only after he has established this basis and a both of them a rapport with the counselor can he begin to really challenge her.

I have been very disappointed in Tucdoc’s responses of late. They are making me feel that his earlier complaints were disingenuous and that he’s actually wanted the divorce all along. Even if he doesn’t succeed, he has an opportunity here to do something really good - to let his children and wife know how important his principals are jow important his love is. Looks to me like on this challenge he has not done well. I pray he chooses to rectify that and to accept this challenge.

 

[faithfully]

All of last year I apologized for insulting her, for making her feel used sexually, and for generally not appreciating her. She says I haven’t been nice to her, which is true in that I would confront her overspending. I’ve told her how I felt disrespected when she would spend regardless of what I would say, not to mention the disrespect of her discussing her “friends” with our children. Just a few days ago I told her that she is not the only victim, she is not the only one who has been hurt in all of this. She didn’t want to here that. We could have gone to Retroville this weekend, but I had told her she would have to be willing to participate by listening and sharing. All she wants to do is complain and deflect any blame from her to me. I’ve done what I can to earn her trust. I’m ready to move on.

Tuc, It seems to me this is a common situation. Sure that’s all she wants to do. It’s quite common for the human condition to NOT want to take the blame. It takes maturity and resolve to see where you’ve done wrong.

I think it’s pretty normal that she doesn’t want to “hear” that she’s the only victim. That opens up a whole new can of worms…

The thing is, I have no idea if this is salvagable… you’re being just as stubborn. She has to approach her healing your way, or no way… So, maybe not.

It seems you married an immature woman. A very immature thing to have done IMO. Or was she once upon a time capable of balancing a check book, and frugal spending. You’ve described your wife as a very pretty, yet incredibly stupid woman in the past.

Which one of you has done the changing in this relationship? Did she suddenly get wild and crazy with money? No longer knows how to balance a check book? Or maintain a budget… Quit using coupons?? Or did you start getting smarter. Is it perhaps that given the option TODAY, you might not choose a wife who is just pretty to look at? But also might have a clue?

My gut is that you’ve actually done a certain degree of maturing, and you’re really upset she’s not on the same page anymore. Which is STILL pretty immature.

There is nothing different really between today and a year or so ago when this started… EXCEPT for now you know what it’s like to be miserable for a full YEAR… When this started you were fine. You had no idea your wife was unhappy and had been for years. Had she not started with the “friends”, and told you how used she felt, you’d still have your head in the clouds. Now at least you understand what at least a year of misery does to your thought process. You can’t see that you are an equal part in your marital problem. You’re just ready to bail. Just like she has been this whole time. The only difference… you’re better with a checkbook and less scared about how your life is going to turn out. She on the other hand is more scared.

I get the feeling that the only thing you’ve ever wanted was for her to feel regret. I know that you’ve admitted to doing wrong. But that doesn’t mean the wounds are healed…

Your marriage has major wounds. No one seems actually interested in tending to them. Just pointing them out, and leaving them gaping open for further infection… This body will die if it’s not tended to…

Something tells me you’d fight for the life of a stranger more than you would for the life of your marriage right now… Try not to forget that you’re STILL married. Seriously, if you had a dieing patient, that you nearly gave up on, but a tiny possible solution presented itself… Would you still walk out the door and away from that person? Would you at least not TRY??? Why is your marriage so much less important? Because it hurts too bad?

You’re predicting that the possible solution will not work… you’ve already decided… Just like she did a year or so ago… Amazing how much you two have in common…

 

[faithfully]

But there is also a point to learning to take things a step at a time. She hasn’t shown any ability to make a leap to accepting criticism. Getting her INTO a meeting is the first step. Keeping her there is the next step. Showing that he (Tucdoc) is willing to take criticism, willing to ask questions, willing to learn is the third. (She has no reason to believe he has changed, and she has no model to think she should or can change herself.) Only after he has established this basis and a both of them a rapport with the counselor can he begin to really challenge her.

I have been very disappointed in Tucdoc’s responses of late. They are making me feel that his earlier complaints were disingenuous and that he’s actually wanted the divorce all along. Even if he doesn’t succeed, he has an opportunity here to do something really good - to let his children and wife know how important his principals are jow important his love is. Looks to me like on this challenge he has not done well. I pray he chooses to rectify that and to accept this challenge.

Agreed… it’s baby steps into healing… There is no way of knowing this will fail without doing…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Agreed… it’s baby steps into healing… There is no way of knowing this will fail without doing…

And Tucdoc should apply to himself the dictates he put to her, “have to be willing to participate by listening and sharing.”

Don’t lecture her on what she must do.

Too bad you missed a Retrouvaille Week-end due to lecturing her.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

And Tucdoc should apply to himself the dictates he put to her, “have to be willing to participate by listening and sharing.”

Don’t lecture her on what she must do.

Too bad you missed a Retrouvaille Week-end due to lecturing her.

Agree, he shouldn’t dictate the terms to her at all, just get her there and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. Oh, my Lord, what I wouldn’t give for the opportunity to do a Retrouvaille weekend and follow-up sessions…we can’t because my husband is out of the country half of the time, he just got back from 2 mos. away and things are just as bad as when he left. He called me uncouth last night and then was mystified when I got angry…I despair.

I think Tucdoc is not going to give his wife another shot at this and it makes me sad.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Agree, he shouldn’t dictate the terms to her at all, just get her there and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. Oh, my Lord, what I wouldn’t give for the opportunity to do a Retrouvaille weekend and follow-up sessions…we can’t because my husband is out of the country half of the time, he just got back from 2 mos. away and things are just as bad as when he left. He called me uncouth last night and then was mystified when I got angry…I despair.

I think Tucdoc is not going to give his wife another shot at this and it makes me sad.

Hi Juliane-
You have been in my prayers. My ex used to travel out of the country all the time, so I can relate.

I am in a really good place now, but I sure wish EXH and I could have had the possibilities that are available now. As it is, at 23 and 20, my kids and I are still dealing with the repercussion of a divorce that happened 15 years ago. An angry and miserable dad that continues to hurt even his adult children.

What I would give to have a dad at peace, even if that meant no reconciliation.

God bless all who are going through these trials. Keep your faith.

 

[tucdoc]

My wife and I had a long face to face discussion last night. The pattern remains the same: she brings up stuff from the past and can’t move forward. I’ve explained that we both weren’t perfect, we’ve both made mistakes, I’ve tried to recognize my errors, and that I wish she could do the same. I accepted her as a less than perfect person, so why can she not do the same with me? If she insists of living in the past, then the marriage has no future. She doesn’t want to respect the boundaries in marriage. She doesn’t seem interested in reconciliation. I’ve told her that her pride is getting in the way of her happiness. The only thing about the future that concerns her is the alimony.

She has never been the most financially responsible person, but was it too much to ask her to become more responsible, not less, once we started our family? This divorce will be long and expensive since she insists on an amount I feel is unreasonable. She is spending more than half of my net monthly salary, even after paying her lawyer’s fees. I won’t agree to that.

 

[kbachler]

My wife and I had a long face to face discussion last night. The pattern remains the same: she brings up stuff from the past and can’t move forward. I’ve explained that we both weren’t perfect, we’ve both made mistakes, I’ve tried to recognize my errors, and that I wish she could do the same. I accepted her as a less than perfect person, so why can she not do the same with me? If she insists of living in the past, then the marriage has no future. She doesn’t want to respect the boundaries in marriage. She doesn’t seem interested in reconciliation. I’ve told her that her pride is getting in the way of her happiness. The only thing about the future that concerns her is the alimony.

She has never been the most financially responsible person, but was it too much to ask her to become more responsible, not less, once we started our family? This divorce will be long and expensive since she insists on an amount I feel is unreasonable. She is spending more than half of my net monthly salary, even after paying her lawyer’s fees. I won’t agree to that.

Yes, Tucdoc, it was too much to ask. Ask instead that she attend counseling with you, and that instead of asking anything else, ask just that. Don’t think about reconcilliation. Don’t ask about responsibility. Ask that both of you attend counseling sessions, share how you feel, and learn to communicate. Nothing more, nothing less.

You ARE starting with too much. It takes time to unbuild thoughts, so yes, she will need a process of discovery, and it will likely take 12 months. It’s cheaper than a divorce.

If your pride is not in your way, if you wish to stand for principles, you will be able to accept that this is a long, slow process. If your pride is in the way, you will insist on more and need to prove that you are right in some ways and need mutual acceptance of responsibility NOW. Why does it need to start now, rather than 6 months from now?

Good luck and God Bless.

 

[qui_est_ce]

My wife and I had a long face to face discussion last night. The pattern remains the same: she brings up stuff from the past and can’t move forward. I’ve explained that we both weren’t perfect, we’ve both made mistakes, I’ve tried to recognize my errors, and that I wish she could do the same. I accepted her as a less than perfect person, so why can she not do the same with me? If she insists of living in the past, then the marriage has no future. She doesn’t want to respect the boundaries in marriage. She doesn’t seem interested in reconciliation. I’ve told her that her pride is getting in the way of her happiness. The only thing about the future that concerns her is the alimony.

She has never been the most financially responsible person, but was it too much to ask her to become more responsible, not less, once we started our family? This divorce will be long and expensive since she insists on an amount I feel is unreasonable. She is spending more than half of my net monthly salary, even after paying her lawyer’s fees. I won’t agree to that.

She won’t be able to move forward until she sees a counselor. Remember you are in counseling and have benefited much.

Reconciliation on your own hasn’t worked in the past. It looks like you’re trying to do that again.

Begin at the counselor’s office.

 

[90Domer]

Tuc, I would have to agree that, while you’re not being unreasonable, you’re probably asking too much of your wife/your marriage right now. Things are very raw, so I can see how any little instance of the past can feel like salt in the wound. Granted, she’s not right in bringing up the past either, but I don’t think any mention on your part is going to resolve anything. Rather, will just fuel the fire. It’s tough to be the bigger person when you’re hurting so much. However, the less you bring up also means the less she has to use against you.

I recently went through a rough patch with a close relative. Every reasonable suggestion or advice I gave her was spun or seen as an attack…and was used against me. When she attempted to hurt me through my son, I made the decision to not give her any (name removed by moderator)ut, advice, comments no matter how unreasonable she sounded. It’s been hard to stand by and take these attacks without defending myself. However, the effort is paying off because she has nothing new to pin on me. I hope you can find encouragement in what I write. Stay strong.

 

[faithfully]

My wife and I had a long face to face discussion last night. The pattern remains the same: she brings up stuff from the past and can’t move forward. I’ve explained that we both weren’t perfect, we’ve both made mistakes, I’ve tried to recognize my errors, and that I wish she could do the same. I accepted her as a less than perfect person, so why can she not do the same with me? If she insists of living in the past, then the marriage has no future. She doesn’t want to respect the boundaries in marriage. She doesn’t seem interested in reconciliation. I’ve told her that her pride is getting in the way of her happiness. The only thing about the future that concerns her is the alimony.

She has never been the most financially responsible person, but was it too much to ask her to become more responsible, not less, once we started our family? This divorce will be long and expensive since she insists on an amount I feel is unreasonable. She is spending more than half of my net monthly salary, even after paying her lawyer’s fees. I won’t agree to that.

Tuc… please re-read this… Is this what you said? “I can accept that you are less than a perfect person???” Wow… mighty big of you! Can you NOT see that you BOTH need way more counceling?

Ok… YOU ARE TELLING HER… not a therapist… It’s been pretty dang clear to everyone that YOU ARE NOT a source of “authority” to her… Why would anything you say right now suddenly be authoritive…

Didn’t she say she was willing to see a councelor? Why not set the appt. And set up the boundries and ground rules THERE? Why on earth are you dictating all that must come of the therapy. I mean really does it go like this? “Look, you get more resposponsible with money, you accept my imperfections. No bringing up things that hurt you in the past… or forget it???” why not say… Yeah, let’s do this. Let’s get it all out on the table and decide if we really want to go further… Bring it!

Sorry, you’ve given up. I can understand it. I get how hard this has been. This situation would make me sick 100 times over! I get that you only have about a 12 month threshhold for misery… where as her has, according to you, has been several YEARS.

You don’t want her to bring up the past. Why do you? Why do you assume she will continue with the friends? Why do you assume she will continue to be crazy with $$… could it be that COMMON SENSE tells us that past performance predicts FUTURE performance? Or maybe she just said: look, I’m gonna hang with who I want, and spend what I want… and I really dont’ want to have anything to do with you… Ok, if she said that… Keep on walking… Otherwise, Why on earth should she know that you won’t act the way you have in the past. That when another realative of hers dies, that you find it more important to be at work than helping her when she needs it??? How does she KNOW you won’t be stingy in bed… um, ‘cause you say so? Please, you SAID some pretty important words on your wedding day… did you both not blow it? Just sayin’!

Here’s the thing… YOU SAID you wanted to try counceling. SHE said she will now try… WHO CARES what her current motives are. Be glad she has at least ONE motive to stay with you. I mean really, wasn’t the goal to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE??? The rest CAN be put back together if you both DO THE WORK NEEDED… And sorry, I’m sick of the word try… you don’t TRY to recognize where you errored. YOU DO recognize where you errored. Then you learn not to do it again!

If she can’t get it together, THEN you divorce. YOU MADE A VOW too. It is your duty, plain and simple to put forth some effort. To carry her sorry bumm until she can carry herself. If she REFUSES to do the work. If she actually continues to see the friends, and spends wildly… etc… THEN you say… LOOK, you aren’t actually willing to stick to the rules of marriage… No go. No one has to stay married to a person on a constant path of destruction.

Please don’t tell her her pride is in the way, when you seemed to have tripped over yours walking through the door. You are once again going at this as if she is a child who needs your special guidance. She may be a mess, but I have a feeling she’s tired of being told how to be an adult… by someone that has hurt her… do you think when she grows up she want to be you??? Think about it.

RE her lack of financial responsiblity… Guess what? YOU KNEW THIS!!! Why did you expect her to change? Are you seriously whining because she hasn’t gotten any smarter??? What you should be doing (should have done YEARS ago) is figuring out how to keep her spending in check. If that means credit cards with certain limits because she can’t add… no check book because she thinks there’s still money because there’s checks then that’s what you do. This is not rocket science. At this juncture, however, this needs to be done with a 3rd party. You’ll just be the jerk that tries to control her…

I know I’m being super blunt here. I’m not as graceful with my writing as some others here.

Hope you’re hearing SOMEONE here… you need to do the counceling! JUST DO IT… if it doesn’t work, then you’re right back here… big whoop.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Tuc… please re-read this… Is this what you said? “I can accept that you are less than a perfect person???” **Wow…*. mighty big of you! ***Can you NOT see that you BOTH need way more counceling?

Ok… YOU ARE TELLING HER… not a therapist… It’s been pretty dang clear to everyone that YOU ARE NOT a source of “authority” to her…. Why would anything you say right now suddenly be authoritive…
**
Didn’t she say she was willing to see a councelor? Why not set the appt. And set up the boundries and ground rules THERE? Why on earth are you dictating all that must come of the therapy**. I mean really does it go like this? “Look, you get more resposponsible with money, you accept my imperfections. No bringing up things that hurt you in the past… or forget it???” why not say… Yeah, let’s do this. Let’s get it all out on the table and decide if we really want to go further… Bring it!

Sorry, you’ve given up. I can understand it. I get how hard this has been. This situation would make me sick 100 times over! I get that you only have about a 12 month threshhold for misery… where as her has, according to you, has been several YEARS.

You don’t want her to bring up the past. Why do you? Why do you assume she will continue with the friends? Why do you assume she will continue to be crazy with $$… could it be that COMMON SENSE tells us that past performance predicts FUTURE performance? Or maybe she just said: look, I’m gonna hang with who I want, and spend what I want… and I really dont’ want to have anything to do with you… Ok, if she said that… Keep on walking… Otherwise, Why on earth should she know that you won’t act the way you have in the past. That when another realative of hers dies, that you find it more important to be at work than helping her when she needs it??? How does she KNOW you won’t be stingy in bed… um, ‘cause you say so? Please, you SAID some pretty important words on your wedding day… did you both not blow it? Just sayin’!

**Here’s the thing… YOU SAID you wanted to try counceling. SHE said she will now try… WHO CARES what her current motives are. Be glad she has at least ONE motive to stay with you. I mean really, wasn’t the goal to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE??? The rest CAN be put back together if you both DO THE WORK NEEDED… And sorry, I’m sick of the word try… you don’t TRY to recognize where you errored. YOU DO recognize where you errored. Then you learn not to do it again! **

If she can’t get it together, THEN you divorce. YOU MADE A VOW too. It is your duty, plain and simple to put forth some effort. To carry her sorry bumm until she can carry herself. If she REFUSES to do the work. If she actually continues to see the friends, and spends wildly… etc… THEN you say… LOOK, you aren’t actually willing to stick to the rules of marriage… No go. No one has to stay married to a person on a constant path of destruction.

Please don’t tell her her pride is in the way, when you seemed to have tripped over yours walking through the door. You are once again going at this as if she is a child who needs your special guidance. **She may be a mess, but I have a feeling she’s tired of being told how to be an adult… by someone that has hurt her… do you think when she grows up she want to be you??? Think about it.
**
RE her lack of financial responsiblity… Guess what? YOU KNEW THIS!!! Why did you expect her to change? Are you seriously whining because she hasn’t gotten any smarter??? What you should be doing (should have done YEARS ago) is figuring out how to keep her spending in check. If that means credit cards with certain limits because she can’t add… no check book because she thinks there’s still money because there’s checks then that’s what you do. This is not rocket science. At this juncture, however, this needs to be done with a 3rd party. You’ll just be the jerk that tries to control her…

I know I’m being super blunt here. I’m not as graceful with my writing as some others here.

Hope you’re hearing SOMEONE here… you need to do the counceling! JUST DO IT… if it doesn’t work, then you’re right back here… big whoop.

All of it. Thanks for taking the time to put it all together.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I know I’m late to the party…

But is anyone else getting the impression that this is mostly about money?

 

[goldangel]

I know I’m late to the party…

But is anyone else getting the impression that this is mostly about money?

I’ve read through most of the thread and I’ve had the same impression all along, actually.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’ve read through most of the thread and I’ve had the same impression all along, actually.

I have not. Money is the catalyst.

 

[tucdoc]

Then let me bring up the kids. We are having issues with my being able to take the kids to school on the Mondays they stay the weekend with me. She claims they prefer to spend Sunday nights at the house. We had a Parenting Plan submitted to the court stating they would stay with me those Mondays, and now she wants to change it. I asked if she would be willing to meet with the kids’ therapist to discussing parenting issues, and she refused. She is not interested in seeing anybody who would potentially disagree with her opinions. She is really not interested in marriage counseling, even after I said I was willing to discuss any issues she had with me and the marriage. She refuses to try, so what choice do I have but to move on.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Then let me bring up the kids. We are having issues with my being able to take the kids to school on the Mondays they stay the weekend with me. She claims they prefer to spend Sunday nights at the house. We had a Parenting Plan submitted to the court stating they would stay with me those Mondays, and now she wants to change it. I asked if she would be willing to meet with the kids’ therapist to discussing parenting issues, and she refused. She is not interested in seeing anybody who would potentially disagree with her opinions. She is really not interested in marriage counseling, even after I said I was willing to discuss any issues she had with me and the marriage. She refuses to try, so what choice do I have but to move on.

You are talking yourself out of counseling. You haven’t even gone to counseling with her and you have decided the outcome.

Please reread faithfully’s post.

 

[kbachler]

Then let me bring up the kids. We are having issues with my being able to take the kids to school on the Mondays they stay the weekend with me. She claims they prefer to spend Sunday nights at the house. We had a Parenting Plan submitted to the court stating they would stay with me those Mondays, and now she wants to change it. I asked if she would be willing to meet with the kids’ therapist to discussing parenting issues, and she refused. She is not interested in seeing anybody who would potentially disagree with her opinions. She is really not interested in marriage counseling, even after I said I was willing to discuss any issues she had with me and the marriage. She refuses to try, so what choice do I have but to move on.

Tuc, based on the way you state your conditions for counseling, I wouldn’t easily accept counseling with you either, nor would I easily meet with kids counselors to discuss things with you. In fact, I can see where she might be starting to feel that you try to berate the counselors with (male)logic in order to get them to agree with you so that you can have your way and force me (wife) to do what you want. So I can see her point completely. And yes, I’m a man.

If you want the divorce to go more easily, or if you want to have an opportunity to save the marriage, then you need to shut your yap and learn to listen. I’m not getting any real sense from your comments that you are listening to your wife.

You want this to go better? Then go back to her and say:

1. I’m sorry. I’m not listening. We don’t communicate well, and in general when we do I think it would help me to hear you better if we have a third party counselor involved.
2. With respect to the children staying with me on Sunday night and me taking them to school on Monday morning: we have an existing agreement. I like the way things are now. I am willing to listen to alternatives, but only with (name removed by moderator)ut from our children’s therapist and a third party to help us communicate.

Note that in the above you state the current situation (an objective fact) and how you feel. I’m not getting that from your comments. From your comments it comes across as you’re trying to leverage the situation to prove her wrong. In the above its a fact, a feeling, and “I’m willing to listen.” NOTHING MORE.

In general, Tuc, its getting more clear that you still have a lot of ongoing issues here. You need this shared therapy as much as she does, and I don’t think you’re telling her that - it certainly doesn’t sound like it. I bet that in your work you have to be confident and in charge - and that’s important to being good at what you do. But if you can’t listen for people’s feelings and incorporate it, well I’m sorry but you’ll still end up being a pompous ***. And if I put that in context a lot of your wife’s responses make a lot of sense.

You want this all to go better? Say this to her: “I would still like us to go to therapy together. I realize that I don’t listen well to people’s feelings, particularly yours. I’d;like to get better at that, and to better understand what went wrong with us. My hope would be that we can still fix it, that I can still take responsibility for my faults and do better. i realize that in some ways what I am saying may sound selfish, but I want us to work, and I can only work on MY faults and on MY weaknesses. I would hope that you could get something from therapy as well, either self-improvement, or hope, or at least closure and resolution. But I would be very pleased if you would consider working with me on this.”

AND THEN SHUT UP. Don’t tell her anything about herself or what she needs to work on. Tell her that she is important to you, working on this together is important to you and that is it. If she says “You have no right to ask that of me” its a good sign, and AGREE. You don’t. But you still want it and need her anyway, and so you are asking. DO NOT tell her what she should do or what she owes to the marriage, etc. Just tell her what you are asking and that it is a request.

Good luck. If she says she will go with you to any therapy say “Yes”. Say “Thank you” and shut up.

 

[kbachler]

Then let me bring up the kids. We are having issues with my being able to take the kids to school on the Mondays they stay the weekend with me. She claims they prefer to spend Sunday nights at the house. We had a Parenting Plan submitted to the court stating they would stay with me those Mondays, and now she wants to change it. I asked if she would be willing to meet with the kids’ therapist to discussing parenting issues, and she refused. She is not interested in seeing anybody who would potentially disagree with her opinions. She is really not interested in marriage counseling, even after I said I was willing to discuss any issues she had with me and the marriage. She refuses to try, so what choice do I have but to move on.

One more point: In the above you’ve conveniently made this her choice, her fault, and let yourself off the hook. It’s NEVER that simple.

Your choice is to say: “I’m wrong. I want to learn to listen to you. Please consider joint counseling.” And shut up.