Wife wants a divorce

[mlchance]

melbourne_guy:

to all those that think you arent allowed to divorce even if one spouse commits adultery read “And it was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of dismissal’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt 5:31-32)

That is a lousy, self-serving translation that is not supported by the bulk of Christian tradition or the Bible itself. The Greek in the text does not support the English translation above. Instead, the term porneia relates to marriages within prohibited degrees, such as incestuous marriages.

Church teaching and Scripture are clear: Adultery, in and of itself, is not grounds for divorce. Again, I suggest you read Hosea.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[mary_bobo]

Youngcatholic:

Divorce is not permissible even in the case of adultery. Jesus never said this. The act of adultery itself is not grounds for divorce even though the act is a sin and destroys trust.

I think you can get a civil divorce but in the eyes of the Church, you are still married and therefore not free to marry again. I base this on the fact that my Mother was divorced in the 40’s for that very reason and she always received the sacraments and never dated or remarried. She raised four girls by herself, father was alcoholic and remarried and fell off the face of the earth. Do check it out, but I believe this to be true and Mom’s pastor told her this was true.

 

[JSmitty2005]

mary bobo:

she always received the sacraments and never dated or remarried.

As long as chastity is observed, the person is fine in the eyes of the Church, but like you said, the Church will only see a civil divorce as “separation” or a bad sign in the marriage, NOT anything that changes the covenantal/sacramental bond between the individuals.

 

[JSmitty2005]

melbourne_guy:

to all those that think you arent allowed to divorce even if one spouse commits adultery
read “And it was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of dismissal’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt 5:31-32)

You sound uninformed; read the article and obey the Church.

 

[melbourne_guy]

mlchance:

That is a lousy, self-serving translation that is not supported by the bulk of Christian tradition or the Bible itself. The Greek in the text does not support the English translation above. Instead, the term porneia relates to marriages within prohibited degrees, such as incestuous marriages.

Church teaching and Scripture are clear: Adultery, in and of itself, is not grounds for divorce. Again, I suggest you read Hosea.

– Mark L. Chance.

porneia in greek translates to adultery, fornification or incest. i really dont know what you mean by an incestuos marriage it doesnt sound right in context with the verse. anyway heres a translation from my r.s.v bible which is accepted by the catholic church

“it was also said ‘whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But i say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress…” Matthew 5:31-33

gee mlchance now that you’ve called a catholic translation “self-serving” i would really like to hear how you would translated it.

 

[melbourne_guy]

JSmitty2005:

read the article and obey the Church.

i dont know which article im implicated to read but has that verse i quoted proved that divorce is legitimate if unchasitity (adultery) is committed. your quick to call me names but i can tell your not the smartest person as your response lacks a rebuttal.

 

[JSmitty2005]

melbourne_guy:

… **i can tell your not the smartest person ** as your response lacks a rebuttal.

I didn’t call you any names; There’s no need for a rebuttal if you read the article, here it is:

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0007bt.asp

I don’t think you can really gauge my intelligence on the fact that I don’t have time to post a rebuttal (considering it’s finals week!). I put up an article I found that addresses the issue and verse that you brought up. Take it or leave it.

PS - I can tell you’RE not the best speller.

 

[melbourne_guy]

JSmitty2005:

Prot=Protestant; I didn’t call you any names; There’s no need for a rebuttal if you read the article, here it is:

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0007bt.asp

I don’t think you can really gauge my intelligence on the fact that I don’t have time to post a rebuttal (considering it’s finals week!). I put up an article I found that addresses the issue and verse that you brought up. Take it or leave it.

PS - I can tell you’RE not the best speller.

your article doesnt doesnt discredit matthew 5:31-32 instead it side tracks to the issue of “why didnt any of the other gospels include it?”. btw if you took the time to read my profile im a catholic and when i type fast i mispell. i will be happy to debate with you if you feel that you want to discuss portions of the article that you feel are important but i am not writing a whole rebuttal to that article because most of it is senseless (no offence to this rock).

 

[JSmitty2005]

melbourne_guy:

your article doesnt doesnt discredit matthew 5:31-32 instead it side tracks to the issue of “why didnt any of the other gospels include it?”. btw if you took the time to read my profile im a catholic and when i type fast i mispell. i will be happy to debate with you if you feel that you want to discuss portions of the article that you feel are important but i am not writing a whole rebuttal to that article because most of it is senseless (no offence to this rock).

I don’t think it does any sidetracking. I know you’re a Catholic b/c I read your profile a while ago, that’s why I said you SOUNDED like a Protestant (for using 1 quote and raising above the rest). There’s nothing to debate. It’s Church doctrine that adultery is NOT grounds for divorce. Period.

 

[melbourne_guy]

JSmitty2005:

I don’t think it does any sidetracking. I know you’re a Catholic b/c I read your profile a while ago, that’s why I said you SOUNDED like a Protestant (for using 1 quote and raising above the rest). There’s nothing to debate. It’s Church doctrine that adultery is NOT grounds for divorce. Period.

can u please quote a catholic source of authority for this

 

[JSmitty2005]

melbourne_guy:

can u please quote a catholic source of authority for this

Not right now, I’ve got to go take that final I was talking about. Wish me luck. I’m sure someone else will be able to give you a source.

-Jon

 

[heartaflame]

You will be in my prayers.

 

[mlchance]

melbourne_guy:

gee mlchance now that you’ve called a catholic translation “self-serving” i would really like to hear how you would translated it.

The RSV isn’t the Church. From the NAB:

“But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery.”

From the New Jerusalem:

“But I say this to you, everyone who divorces his wife, except for the case of an illicit marriage, makes her an adulteress.”

The phrases “unlawful” or “illicit” refer to marriage within the Jewish forbidden degrees, allowed by Roman law, but not by Christian moral teaching. This has always been the Church’s understanding of the verse.

Thus, this isn’t about how I would translate anything. It is about what the Church authoritatively teaches, and she teaches authoritatively that adultery is not sufficient grounds for divorce. A valid marriage is, in the word of the Church, “perpetual.”

So, in a word, you’re wrong, as is anyone else who thinks adultery in and of itself is grounds for divorce, which is a grave offense against the sacredness of marriage.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Karin]

mlchance:

The RSV isn’t the Church. From the NAB:

“But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery.”

From the New Jerusalem:

“But I say this to you, everyone who divorces his wife, except for the case of an illicit marriage, makes her an adulteress.”

The phrases “unlawful” or “illicit” refer to marriage within the Jewish forbidden degrees, allowed by Roman law, but not by Christian moral teaching. This has always been the Church’s understanding of the verse.

Thus, this isn’t about how I would do it. It is about what the Church authoritatively teaches, and she teaches authoritatively that adultery is not sufficient grounds for divorce. A valid marriage is, in the word of the Church, “perpetual.”

So, in a word, you’re wrong, as is anyone else who thinks adultery in and of itself is grounds for divorce, which is a grave offense against the sacredness of marriage.

– Mark L. Chance.

Does it really matter why one gets a divorce (civil) as long as they have /can supply grounds for an annulment?

 

[mlchance]

Karin:

Does it really matter why one gets a divorce (civil) as long as they have /can supply grounds for an annulment?

If there are grounds for annulment, a civil divorce can be an appropriate path. That’s not my point. My point is simply this: Adultery in and of itself is not sufficient grounds.

Rather, adultery is one of the great cop-outs (second only to “We just don’t love each other anymore.”), and this is one of the few genuine instances where I think Protestantism has infected the Catholic Church (for example, I’ve seen any number of Baptist churches offering marriage classes for divorced and remarried couples).

Too many people who think adultery is grounds for divorce are not only ignoring the Church’s teaching on the matter, they’re also quitters. “You cheated on me; therefore I can get a divorce!” isn’t Church teaching. It is pride, and we all that comes before a fall.

Again, please read Hosea for a very clear, prophetic story about how much God expects a spouse to put up with.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Karin]

mlchance:

If there are grounds for annulment, a civil divorce can be an appropriate path. That’s not my point. My point is simply this: Adultery in and of itself is not sufficient grounds…

How many people meet with their priest or deacon ahead of time (before getting a civil divorce) to see if their marriage might perhaps qualify for an annulment? Not many I am sure…they usually get the divorce and then worry about the annulment.

mlchance:

Rather, adultery is one of the great cop-outs (second only to “We just don’t love each other anymore.”), and this is one of the few genuine instances where I think Protestantism has infected the Catholic Church (for example, I’ve seen any number of Baptist churches offering marriage classes for divorced and remarried couples).

Too many people who think adultery is grounds for divorce are not only ignoring the Church’s teaching on the matter, they’re also quitters. “You cheated on me; therefore I can get a divorce!” isn’t Church teaching. It is pride, and we all that comes before a fall.

Again, please read Hosea for a very clear, prophetic story about how much God expects a spouse to put up with.

– Mark L. Chance.

OK…sorry about the misunderstanding…I do understand what you are saying

 

[mlchance]

Karin:

How many people meet with their priest or deacon ahead of time (before getting a civil divorce) to see if their marriage might perhaps qualify for an annulment? Not many I am sure…they usually get the divorce and then worry about the annulment.

Unfortunately, that’s probably true. There are also, as always, people who get advice from under-educated or overly-permissive priests and deacons. Fortunately, the Church always offers the Sacrament of Reconciliation; otherwise, we’d all be in a world of hurt.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[jrabs]

I will pray that your wife realizes what she has with you. You do need to take responsibility for decieving her about your finances. Holding back information is deceiving by omission. Not good.

But psychologist101 had some great advice in the early posts about listening to her and communication with her.

I will add you to my prayers.

 

[momtofivekids]

It’s really sad that people want to use adultry as grounds for divorce. If the church taught that this was grounds for divorce, then slam dunk go get divorced, there would be so much more divorgce today.
I’m reading Amazing Grace For Married Couples. I’m only about one third of the way through it; but every story has infidelity as one of the factors as a break down of the relationship. Every couple hangs in there and ends up so thankful they did. They speak of a marriage that is better than they could have imagined.
Being a child of divorced parents I know the devastation it causes a family.It has been 20 plus years and our family still is filled with so much hurt.
The one thing I knew when I got married is that I would never put my kids through that pain. We tell our kids that marriage is FOREVER! When you choose your spouse do so with much prayer and discernment because you are in it forever.
Your job as a wife or husband is to lead the other to Christ. Yes, this can be done through adultry. It teaches forgivness, selfless ness, sacrifice, and a deep commitment. So much that is lacking in this world today.
Okay now I’ll get off my soap box.

 

[jrabs]

momtofivekids:

It’s really sad that people want to use adultry as grounds for divorce. If the church taught that this was grounds for divorce, then slam dunk go get divorced, there would be so much more divorgce today.
I’m reading Amazing Grace For Married Couples. I’m only about one third of the way through it; but every story has infidelity as one of the factors as a break down of the relationship. Every couple hangs in there and ends up so thankful they did. They speak of a marriage that is better than they could have imagined.
Being a child of divorced parents I know the devastation it causes a family.It has been 20 plus years and our family still is filled with so much hurt.
The one thing I knew when I got married is that I would never put my kids through that pain. We tell our kids that marriage is FOREVER! When you choose your spouse do so with much prayer and discernment because you are in it forever.
Your job as a wife or husband is to lead the other to Christ. Yes, this can be done through adultry. It teaches forgivness, selfless ness, sacrifice, and a deep commitment. So much that is lacking in this world today.
Okay now I’ll get off my soap box.

This thread is not about adultery - I don’t believe the OP ever used that as the reason for the request of divorce.

Although it is being hijacked into one on adultery.