Will "Altar Girls" lead to Women Priests?

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

You know…if you go over any members’ posts with a fine enough tooth comb, you can find rule infraction on any members part if you look hard enough. I am sure you are hard at work doing that to try to find some reason to give the mods reason to ban me. I have no regrets and I have only spoken the truth. I have reflected Scripture, Catholic teaching, and Catholic Tradition without deviation…regardless of how you feel about it. It is the truth and I will not apologize for the truth. If telling the truth is what gets someone the boot around here, then maybe they will decide to get rid of me. I hope not though, because there are apparently a lot of misinformed Catholics that need voices of reason to help them in their journey of faith…because it seems they are lost. I will pray for all of you. Do with me what you wish…the truth is still the truth. I like to think about the following scripture passage from Matthew when I run into people like you that like to slander me and attack me for defending the faith:

“[11] Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: [12] Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you”

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You know…if you go over any members’ posts with a fine enough tooth comb, you can find rule infraction on any members part if you look hard enough. I am sure you are hard at work doing that to try to find some reason to give the mods reason to ban me. I have no regrets and I have only spoken the truth. I have reflected Scripture, Catholic teaching, and Catholic Tradition without deviation…regardless of how you feel about it. It is the truth and I will not apologize for the truth. If telling the truth is what gets someone the boot around here, then maybe they will decide to get rid of me. I hope not though, because there are apparently a lot of misinformed Catholics that need voices of reason to help them in their journey of faith…because it seems they are lost. I will pray for all of you. Do with me what you wish…the truth is still the truth. I like to think about the following scripture passage from Matthew when I run into people like you that like to slander me and attack me for defending the faith:

“[11] Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: [12] Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you”

You know that if you feel someone is breaking the rules, that you have the right to report as well.

If what you say is true then do not defend yourself so. You already said this person is not you. Nuff said…

If accusations continue then report for harassment.

Solved.

 

[pnewton]

What women do not understand is that men cultivate misogyny for the sake of women.

If a man does not he would never leave the boyhood stage and would treat all women like a mother, is that what women want a bunch of men acting like little boys? Is that even good for women? No it is not.

A man must give up the state of boyhood, in which he is protected by women, fed by women and cared for by women, so that he may himself become a protector and provider for women and children.

In other words he must give up been mothered before he can become a father. He must reject the feminine and cultivate a distance between himself and the world of women so that he can one day return to it not as a recipient, but as a giver.

All you women might do well and consider that there is some truth here. I am considered rather a chauvenist where I work, which is in a macho, male-dominated profession. I think what mean must also do is recognize this tendency and not allow it to influence their theology. For example, we have and always will have an all-male priesthood for reasons that transcend gender bias. It is a matter of the way God established the Sacrament of Holy Orderss. It can never change. God could have done it different, but He did not, so this now becomes a matter of Faith. Do we trust God that He did what was best for us all?

The discipline of altar servers is on an entirely different level. We can have male, female, both or no altar servers, theologically speaking. Prudence dictates what is best and the society and culture surely can play a role in this. If men are influence in their thinking by their own attitudes toward gender, then it is best to admit it and try to think beyond our emotions. This shouldn’t be too difficult as it is what men know. If I had boys that were complaining about serving with girls (and it was permitted in the diocese), my advice would be to man up and stop griping. When one serves God, it does not always the easy path. Come here an post how much you wish there were only boys if you wish, but when if comes time to serve, then serve.

FYI - I do not know or really care if this issue continues. We could go back to all boys and I would never blink an eye. In the overall scheme of things, there are so many other issues, such greater threats facing the Church, this may come and go. I think it might have come close to going already, if Cardinal Arinze had been elected Pope. Best be prepared for anything.

 

[Julianna]

Okay, so let me get this straight. You don’t agree with me and you can not counter my valid arguments which are backed up by Scripture and Catholic Tradition, so you:
a) advocate a censoring of my free speech
b) accuse me of being somebody that I have no clue as to who you are alluding to…but I guess if you sling some mud on me by accusing me of being that person, it may result in me being banned
c) advocate me being banned for no other reason than you disagree with my opinions
d) you are actually trying to convince others to join on the band wagon as well.

Wake up, The Church Militant is a very necessary for The Church. You want to feminize all of the men and have them believe we are wrong for supporting Tradition, then in the same breath you mock us and get onto us because we are not acting like real men. How can you be pleased?

a) No, I do not. I wish you would continue, you have the right to speak what is in your heart. I disagree, but I also have the right to say so
b) If you look up your name, you will see where I got the info
c) again, it is not up to me to ban anyone. I have not gone to the mods regarding your comments, and I will not…because I believe you need to say what you need to say
d) No, I was simply stating that if Samantha wanted to, she could look it up.

You aren’t acting, you are the real deal, according to you. However, my definition of a man is slight bit different. It is not up to you to please, me? I have a solid marriage of 29 yrs and I can get all the pleasin’ I want from my DH. I think tradition can be a good thing. Everything in moderation…I believe the Bible speaks of that.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

I just looked up the name. I do see what you mean LOL. We share similar views and that is kind of weird, scary, and intriguing…and when you throw in the very similar name it is ironic. I am not sure where they got the inspiration for their name, but I read it once online and the english translation really inspired me. I am sorry for my name choice now, because I do not want to be associated with a previously banned member. I came to this forum to converse with Catholics around the world and learn more about our faith. Please don’t let the actions of that person effect what you think about me. I think we have had some meaningful dialogue and I respect your position and opinions.

Oh and on a congratulatory note…Congrats on your 29 years of marriage. It is inspirational and heartwarming to hear about to people that are able to make it work for so long together. These days…tragically so many marriage end up in divorce. Glad to see some people are getting it right Fruthermore, I like your signature regarding Adoptions…I too strongly believe in giving the gift of love. God Bless and I will do my best to not get so heated when we discuss things.

a) No, I do not. I wish you would continue, you have the right to speak what is in your heart. I disagree, but I also have the right to say so
b) If you look up your name, you will see where I got the info
c) again, it is not up to me to ban anyone. I have not gone to the mods regarding your comments, and I will not…because I believe you need to say what you need to say
d) No, I was simply stating that if Samantha wanted to, she could look it up.

You aren’t acting, you are the real deal, according to you. However, my definition of a man is slight bit different. It is not up to you to please, me? I have a solid marriage of 29 yrs and I can get all the pleasin’ I want from my DH. I think tradition can be a good thing. Everything in moderation…I believe the Bible speaks of that.

 

[Sirach2]

The name is the state logo for South Carolina where the old user lived for awhile. He was born and raised in Mississippi, however, same state as you. Another oddity, if you will, is the same friend, Paramedicgirl who latched on to you as soon as you registered. Not to mention the identical handwriting in all the posts, as well as your viewpoints. :ehh: I would say it’s scary, alright. No, I don’t have a crystal ball, but user’s trails are easy to search out and quickly pick up similarities. It just takes a lot of time reading.

 

[PaulinVA]

I just looked up the name. I do see what you mean LOL. We share similar views and that is kind of weird, scary, and intriguing…and when you throw in the very similar name it is ironic. I am not sure where they got the inspiration for their name, but I read it once online and the english translation really inspired me.

Really? The quote is on your ring (in the state seal), and his. It’s also on the cap device of the uniform of your* alma mater, *and part of it’s customs and traditions.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

I have known her for a long time. Long before I joined here. My job brought me to Mississippi. I moved here in March. I don’t have to explain myself to you or anyone else, and quite frankly I find this “stalker” type mentality very abusive and unwarranted.

The name is the state logo for South Carolina where the old user lived for awhile. He was born and raised in Mississippi, however, same state as you. Another oddity, if you will, is the same friend, Paramedicgirl who latched on to you as soon as you registered. Not to mention the identical handwriting in all the posts, as well as your viewpoints. :ehh: I would say it’s scary, alright. No, I don’t have a crystal ball, but user’s trails are easy to search out and quickly pick up similarities. It just takes a lot of time reading.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

What is a cap device? This is getting out of hand.

Really? The quote is on your ring (in the state seal), and his. It’s also on the cap device of the uniform of your* alma mater, *and part of it’s customs and traditions.

 

[ProVobis]

That wasn’t who I was thinking of…oh, please, there isn’t another one, is there?

I was referring to the guy that keeps chanting women were only created to serve men by getting pregnant and raising children and they should sit in the back of the Church.

Oh whew! For a minute there, I thought you had something against people using Latin as their monikers.

 

[Julianna]

Really? The quote is on your ring (in the state seal), and his. It’s also on the cap device of the uniform of your* alma mater, *and part of it’s customs and traditions.

wow…didn’t look that close…as a former Charlestonian…looks like a Citadel uniform to me. So this other person “is” familiar with the Diocese of Charleston. yes, they have female altar servers…have had for well over 15 yrs. An adult women lectors, cantors, and yes, they do assist on the altar…

ok…didn’t research all that much…but wow…the similarities are are uncanny.

 

[Julianna]

where did Lux go?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

Am I missing something? What looks like a uniform? My job takes me throughout this wonderful country and I am familiar with a lot of Diocese and Arch-Diocese. I stil fail to see where this justifies these unwarranted attacks on me???

wow…didn’t look that close…as a former Charlestonian…looks like a Citadel uniform to me. So this other person “is” familiar with the Diocese of Charleston. yes, they have female altar servers…have had for well over 15 yrs. An adult women lectors, cantors, and yes, they do assist on the altar…

ok…didn’t research all that much…but wow…the similarities are are uncanny.

 

[Julianna]

Am I missing something? What looks like a uniform? My job takes me throughout this wonderful country and I am familiar with a lot of Diocese and Arch-Diocese. I stil fail to see where this justifies these unwarranted attacks on me???

look at the photo of the other dumspirospero. It is a Citadel uniform.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

I finally see what you are talking about. So that is the young man causing such a stir on this forum. I haven’t had a chance to go back and read through all of his posts, but he must have been pretty controversial for me to be getting all of this attention LOL. Seems like everyone is a lot more scared of people like him than the muslims, jews, or protestants…must be a real enemy of The Church.

Ok…can we now move on. Please refrain from associating me with him and let us continue our productive debates.

look at the photo of the other dumspirospero. It is a Citadel uniform.

 

[ProVobis]

I appreciate it may be obvious to you. It’s not obvious to me as altar girls have never, to me, been an indication that women should be Deacons or Priests.

But you’ll have to admit, it is at least a part of progressive thinking in the Church, not necessarily by the clerics either. And I don’t know of a single progressive who isn’t thinking of the next “logical” step, even if it means waiting for the next Papacy under which it can be “approved.”

 

[Emmit_Fitzhume]

Excuse me for joining the conversation late, but I wanted to let you know that I agree with you. Thanks

But you’ll have to admit, it is at least a part of progressive thinking in the Church, not necessarily by the clerics either.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

But you’ll have to admit, it is at least a part of progressive thinking in the Church, not necessarily by the clerics either. And I don’t know of a single progressive who isn’t thinking of the next “logical” step, even if it means waiting for the next Papacy.

I would also like to state that I agree with you.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

Hey, do any of you forum elders know how one goes about adding pictures and avatars, etc? There does not seem to be any options to do so? Thank you and Peace of Christ be with you all

 

[minkymurph]

But you’ll have to admit, it is at least a part of progressive thinking in the Church, not necessarily by the clerics either.

Well, admit is not a word I would use in this context. I would agree it is a part of progressive thinking. ‘Admit’ infers guilt of some shape, form or description. As far as the thinking of the clerics goes, I have absolutely no idea what percentage of clerics think girls can be altar servers and what percentage think they can’t.

Is progressive thinking all bad? Progressive thinking for the sake of being progressive, yes. Progressive thinking to enhance our understanding of divine truth, no. If it were not for progressive thinking, Catholic exegesis which has enhanced the relationship of science and religion would not have developed. Progressive thinking that restores the dignity of women that God intended them to have cannot be described as ‘bad.’ I would any reasonable, thinking person would agree that in the past, theological opinions existed that denied women the human dignity God gave them because of misinterpretations of the role of men and women in the Church. For example, St Augustine believed women did not equally share the imaging of God with men and were more sexual in nature than men. I quite like a lot of Augustinian theology, but I don’t think anyone who has a deep understanding of the Catholic faith would agree with him on this point now.

What I have a problem with, is not the fact that the Catholic Church does not ordain women, but notions that the Church does not ordain women for the wrong reasons. In another thread, the most bizzare reasons were offered as to why women cannot be ordained. The reason the Catholic Church ordains only men is not because men are more spiritual, more able to make decisions, because they are not as emotional as women, superior to women, or because God put them in charge and women should just do as they are told. Once this is understood, the fact that the Catholic Church does not ordain women is not an issue for those who have an honest desire to enhance their understanding of the divine and live by it.

I can’t speak for those who do not have this desire.