Will "Altar Girls" lead to Women Priests?

[Emmit_Fitzhume]

I’m sorry, but I am trying to understand your post. Do you think the attempted communist subversion of our Church is a laughing matter? Is it funny that 40-50 years ago, a woman the defected from THe Soviet Union, converted to Catholicism and was Baptized by Archbishop Fulton Sheen himself, and gave testimony as to how the Soviets were going to try to destroy The Church and then we fastforward to today and everything she predicted is happening as she described it would. What about that makes it a laughing matter or something to joke about? I don’t think it is funny at all.

I wonder if Bella Dodd was related to Alberto Rivera?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Not only acceptable but necessary in the baptisms of females in the early church since naked full immersion was required for baptism. Question I have is if any member of the laity could baptize back then when danger of death was present.

The validity of baptisms by the laity were never put into question. Having the deaconess back then only makes sure that a proper trained lay person can perform a Baptism. Even today a Catechist is in the “chain” of people who can Baptize under ordinary situations, if a Priest or Deacon is not present. You’d think, “can I ask my CCD or RCIA teacher to baptisze me?” This is included in the Canon Law not for usual places where there is a parish, but for missions in remote villages were the missionaries (who are Catechists) who are not priests may have to perform baptisms regularly.

Deaconesses will fall under this category, since the cultural norm back then would prevent an ordinary minister from being in the same place as the woman to be baptized. So a trained woman would administer the baptism.

Can. 861
§2. When an ordinary minister is absent or impeded, a catechist or another person designated for this function by the local ordinary, or in a case of necessity any person with the right intention, confers baptism licitly. Pastors of souls, especially the pastor of a parish, are to be concerned that the Christian faithful are taught the correct way to baptize.

 

[Julianna]

I’m sorry, but I am trying to understand your post. Do you think the attempted communist subversion of our Church is a laughing matter? Is it funny that 40-50 years ago, a woman the defected from THe Soviet Union, converted to Catholicism and was Baptized by Archbishop Fulton Sheen himself, and gave testimony as to how the Soviets were going to try to destroy The Church and then we fastforward to today and everything she predicted is happening as she described it would. What about that makes it a laughing matter or something to joke about? I don’t think it is funny at all.

Ok, McCarthy, the fun is over…there is no subversion of the Church. You are just frustrated with VatII and what “you” perceive as abuses; female altar servers are just the tip of the iceberg. Bella Dodd repented, let her rest in peace. Female altar servers are not the slippery slope. Female priests aren’t happening, now or in the near future. Married priests…well…that is a definate could be.

pnewton is one of the most outspoken trads on CAF…he/she knows what they are talking about. Levity is not a sin or a crime. Chill out, man.

“You don’t need to see his identification … These aren’t the droids you’re looking for … … Move along.”

 

[minkymurph]

No it does not work like that you are making the mistake of thinking that because a boy goes through something a girl must also go through something similar but that is not the case. The development of a girl to womanhood is a great deal more different.

Both boys and girls are born to mothers, boys to become men have to at some point reject the ways of their mother, girls don’t have to reject the ways of the mother they are free to embrace the ways of the mother because those ways are appropriate to their development into a woman like the mother is a woman.

In reference to a previous post, any intention of enlightening me as to these ‘ways’ of a mother a boy must reject and what ‘ways’ of a mother a girl is free to embrace?

I know you said the path to womanhood and manhood are differnet. I did not disagree but by the same reasoning, should a girl at some point reject the ‘ways,’ which have not yet been clarified, of her father?

 

[AClaire11]

I was very disturbed by some of the posts on this forum…

That said, when I first converted, I did want to be an altar server but never ended up doing so. I didn’t want to serve because I wanted to be a priest or was a feminazi or anything like that. I just saw other girls doing it and thought it would be a nice way to become more involved with the parish. However, I started going to the Tridentine Mass instead of the NO, and this put an end to my desire to be an altar server. This point has been addressed to some extent, but I think the reason we have this disconnect is because in the TLM, the altar servers are VERY involved throughout the Mass, while in the NO they are more marginalized. It seems like some of the Novus Ordo parishes try to incorporate all-male altar servers to hold with tradition, but the message just isn’t as powerful with so many changes in their role.

Just my two cents.

 

[pnewton]

I’m sorry, but I am trying to understand your post.

Let me just say I do not believe everything I read or hear about. We have had many wild conspiracy theories pop up here over the years, many are mutually contradictory. While nothing is impossible, I will not buy anything that isn’t very well supported, or that the Church Herself does not address.

Did the Catholic Church ever release a statement about the veracity of this claim?

 

[CradleCath]

The proponents of women’s ordination always try create a fear and panic so that people will haphazardly support their views. I can see how it is very easy for a poorly catechized Catholic who is really uninformed on matters to allow themselves to be seduced by this brainwashing. These agitators put the fear of there not being any more priest which means no more sacraments, etc, etc. It is fear mongering and brain washing. Out of fear, the people support this asinine argument. The proponents feel if they garnish enough support. that The Church will change its mind on the subject. The hugely hilarious point of all of this is that their efforts are completely in vain,** because THE CHURCH DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY OR ABILITY to ordain women. It is not just something they can decide to do. No shortage of priest or any other “Impending disaster” will change that, even if The Church wanted to, it can not.** IT shows how much these “Catholics” know about their own faith. These people are serpents trying destroy us from within.

Do you understand that it can never happen? How many times do you have to be told, before you take it to heart?

THANK YOU, Emmit. The Catholic Church is the only Church that is still true to Scripture. We still recognize the story of Onan, we still follow Christ’s teachings about multiple marriages. We would cease to be Christ’s Church if we assumed that we have the authority to ignore His example & His teachings. As you said, we do not have the authority to ordain women.

Roma locuta est,
causa finita est.

Let it go, people. BTW., I am a Catholic woman & I don’t need to DO what men DO, in order to be their equal.

 

[Layman]

And that is on the men, not the women. I am a middle aged man, try to be true to the Magisterium, am conservative politically, and I find it extremely offensive to have men portrayed this way. I find it even more troubling that it might in fact be true. But, that’s the men’s fault, not the women’s.

Boys don’t want to play with girls. They don’t want to to play girls games. Men like to get away from their womenfolk, occasionally. If women are involved and there’s no major problem to solve, it’s not serious business, so, no need to get involved.

The N.O. has been deliberately made into a happy, communal, egalitarian occasion. You even see kids drawings in the sanctuary and laywomen handing out communion. Pretty casual. Nothing too serious going one here, so, exit men.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jimmy, you explained this “thoughtfully, thoroughly and with the utmost respect” to those who are still on the journey. Simply saying “no, not allowed”…will always beg further questions. You, sir, explained it very well with Christian charity. Your recognition of woman in the Church speaks volumes of their value as human beings. Your empathy that there are ** …"women who pine in their hearts to serve as priests. I have genuine sympathy for women who believe that they are called to priesthood. "**.

thanks

If these women pine in their hearts to serve as priests and believe they are being called then who is calling them?

If it were God it would be with obedience. Right?

When the Holy Father said to stop debating that only men can be priests he was making a fatherly decision for the whole church. So when women keep saying what you have then are they not being disobedient?

So where is this calling coming from? God or the devil?

THANK YOU, Emmit. The Catholic Church is the only Church that is still true to Scripture. We still recognize the story of Onan, we still follow Christ’s teachings about multiple marriages. We would cease to be Christ’s Church if we assumed that we have the authority to ignore His example & His teachings. As you said, we do not have the authority to ordain women.

Roma locuta est,
causa finita est.

Let it go, people. BTW., I am a Catholic woman & I don’t need to DO what men DO, in order to be their equal.

I loved reading this post.

 

[Bluegoat]

This is a ridiculous notion, and one that I suspect has been planted by the progressive elements of our society and it’s sad these elements have entered into the Church’s mainstream. Boys and girls are naturally attracted to each other and their roles have been defined by God. Any such hate you speak of is therefore learned.

ProVobis, I’m not sure what you ean? I wasn’t saying anyone ought to hate anything. Milesius was saying boys must learn to hate women in order to become “real men”. I said that was false.

 

[Bluegoat]

Sorry, I didn’t realize some people refer to Eastern Churches as Roman Catholic Churches. It wouldn’t have occured to me to do so. So, yes, this was a Latin rite parish that had a deaconess. It was not an Eastern Church, or Orthodox Church.

I’m just making a guess here, but perhaps she was filling some of the roles a deacon traditionally does, such as ministering to the community, making visits to homes, etc., and so they called her a deacon, though technically this was not so?

 

[PaulinVA]

Boys don’t want to play with girls. They don’t want to to play girls games. Men like to get away from their womenfolk, occasionally. If women are involved and there’s no major problem to solve, it’s not serious business, so, no need to get involved.

The N.O. has been deliberately made into a happy, communal, egalitarian occasion. You even see kids drawings in the sanctuary and laywomen handing out communion. Pretty casual. Nothing too serious going one here, so, exit men.

I don’t know about you, but I am a bigger man than that.

I think the Ordinary Form of the Mass does tend to be more informal, but this whole idea that altar girls want to be priests and are driving the boys out and the informality of the Mass drives the men out is just really sad.

Men need to be the leaders of their families, and leading the family to Christ is one of our jobs. I think men have a harder time in faith because at work we frequently rely on our own skills for success, and it’s hard to be humble and realize that we need a relationship with our creator.

 

[Glamdring]

I don’t know about you, but I am a bigger man than that.

I think the Ordinary Form of the Mass does tend to be more informal, but this whole idea that altar girls want to be priests and are driving the boys out and the informality of the Mass drives the men out is just really sad.

Its sad alright, but its also true. i saw it in our own parish.

Men need to be the leaders of their families, and leading the family to Christ is one of our jobs.

True enough, and in a just society, thatd be OK; but in todays corrupt and decadent Western society, we men are a persecuted species. Thanks to the radical feminists and their lackeys, were lumped in with the male low lifes who dont deserve to be called men: ie were tarred with the same brush; were mocked, ridiculed, belittled, despised, and any attempt to properly exercise our manhood and FATHERHOOD is called “sexism”. Etc. etc, etc.

Altar girls are just another wedge being hammered in to split the once-solid rock of manhood and fatherhood, including SPIRITUAL fatherhood.

In this part of the world (Australia), most Mass-going “Catholics” think “priestesses” would be OK, even inevitable, and altar girls arent helping the mindset of these "Catholics". Theyre not interested in being told that The Church CANNOT “ordain” “priestesses”.

LINK
www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9710fea2.asp-
in case it, or something similar, hasnt already been put up. (Its impossible to check 500+ posts!)

 

[CradleCath]

Whether or not I agree with the ordination of women, I have thought of the sad decline in the number of priests and I think that it will drive the Church to either reconsider ordination of women or allowing priests to be married.

 

[Glamdring]

I will say this one more time. The Catholic Church DOES NOT HAVE A CHOICE when it comes to the ordination of women. It is not that we will not ordain women…it’s that we CANNOT. If Christ had chosen ONE woman to be an Apostle ( our first priests ), then we could. However, Christ was known for His willingness to go against the societal pressures of the day & still He did not call a woman to be part of the original 12.

You can repeat it until Doomsday, but youre wasting your breath. How many "priestess" threads have there been on these forums? Itd be a good guessing competition.

If you are so upset about the priest shortage it would be a good idea to look at a diocese that does NOT have a priest shortage:

And pray like hell for a heap of good MASCULINE men to take up the challenge.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Rence;6951711:

I will say this one more time. The Catholic Church DOES NOT HAVE A CHOICE when it comes to the ordination of women. It is not that we will not ordain women…it’s that we CANNOT. If Christ had chosen ONE woman to be an Apostle ( our first priests ), then we could.

However, Christ was known for His willingness to go against the societal pressures of the day & still He did not call a woman to be part of the original 12.

If you are so upset about the priest shortage it would be a good idea to look at a diocese that does NOT have a priest shortage:

catholicdoors.com/faq/qu25.htm#answer1

I agree. I said earlier that it cannot be said too much.

1577 **"Only a baptized man (vir) **

validly receives sacred ordination."66 The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.67 The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.68

 

[minkymurph]

Will somebody please tell me how altar girls stop boys from becoming priests!

In the university I attend, we do not have altar servers. We have have a Mass every Thursday which is organised by liturgy groups. The liturgy groups also fulfill some of the duties carried out by altar servers. None of us desire to be priests. We are all going to be teachers (it’s a teacher training college).

Religious Studies students, of which I am one, are very much encouraged to become involved with liturgy groups as in Catholic schools, it’s the RE teachers responsibility to organise the school Mass. Therefore, they need to know how to do it. we also teach children about the Mass; the liturgical seasons, why the priests wears the garments he does, what all the gestures he makes during the Mass mean, such as during consecration of the gifts, why we use bread and wine, the significance of the altar, the names of items used for the gifts, what the tabernacle is, what happens during consecration,

phew! need I go on?

Who is going to tell me, that if you are going to teach all this to children, you can read it in a book and there is no need to be actively involved in the Mass? Who is going to disagree with me when I say, the Mass means more to you when you are involved at this level? Given that all the men who attend the college are going to become teachers, who is going to tell me that woman are stopping men from becoming priests by participating in these liturgy groups? Who is going to tell me that women who have a vocation as religious educators, would not benefit from being altar servers and it is unbeneficial to the process of catechesis?

 

[Rence]

Rence;6951711:

I will say this one more time. The Catholic Church DOES NOT HAVE A CHOICE when it comes to the ordination of women. It is not that we will not ordain women…it’s that we CANNOT. If Christ had chosen ONE woman to be an Apostle ( our first priests ), then we could.

However, Christ was known for His willingness to go against the societal pressures of the day & still He did not call a woman to be part of the original 12.

If you are so upset about the priest shortage it would be a good idea to look at a diocese that does NOT have a priest shortage:

catholicdoors.com/faq/qu25.htm#answer1

I’m not “upset” about the priest shortage. The Church won’t allow us to run out, they’ll fix it one way or another, sooner or later. And however they fix it, some people will be happy about it, and others won’t. That’s how it always is.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Sorry, I didn’t realize some people refer to Eastern Churches as Roman Catholic Churches. It wouldn’t have occured to me to do so. So, yes, this was a Latin rite parish that had a deaconess. It was not an Eastern Church, or Orthodox Church.

Maybe she was the wife of the deacon…and people called her the deaconess?..or they called her that in a tounge in cheek way?

Female deacon-20 years ago were not permitted.

 

[Rence]

Maybe she was the wife of the deacon…and people called her the deaconess?..or they called her that in a tounge in cheek way?

Female deacon-20 years ago were not permitted.

Hi Mary Gail,

This deaconess was single. And I remember her saying that if she was going to get married she would have done it before becoming a deaconess, but now that she’s a deaconess, she can’t get married anymore because she would have had to do it before being a deaconess.