Will Billy Graham go to heaven?

[Tom]

But the Catholic Church does draw distinctions. In fact, the pure fact that it has doctrines on schisms and heresy clearly shows that. At some point, one can or could be separated from the Catholic Church for a variety of reasons.
Once there is separation, depending on the degree or severity, there are implications for the individual or movement. In my topic, the risk of losing one’s salvation are in greater question.
Any one else want to tackle this one… that there are/are not real distinctions within the Church…, and, as a result, there are implications for many of those distinctions?

You are correct, the further one strays from the teaching of the Church the more in peril one becomes. Where is the line ? God only knows, since He is the one judging. “If” you live by the teachings of the Catholic Church you stand a far better chance of realizing your eternal salvation. The fact is that the Catholic Church teaches the true faith. Is it possible for any person to attain their salvation who is a Protestant? Certainly, but it is harder for that person because they may be missing the grace of God bestowed upon recipients of the Sacraments.

 

[Tom]

“The church” as mentioned in the Bible is not the Catholic Church.Christ’s church is referring to His followers.Billy Graham will never join the Catholic church so I guess many catholics think he will not make it to heaven?We often refer to a church as a building but if you could never step foot in an actual building as some countries forbid,would that mean you are not going to heaven?Funny how we don’t refer to ourselves as the protestant church.The term catholic nor protestant is not mentioned in the Bible.It really separates us by using those terms.I believe catholics and protestants are Christians if they repent of their sins,believe Jesus is the Son of God,be baptized and follow Him.Can we not all agree on that?“The Church” is all who believe that.I believe Billy Graham is going to heaven just as much as I believe the pope is but really only God can judge them.

The Church mentioned in the Bible is the Catholic Church. It has existed from the day it was instituted by Jesus Himself. It has never ended, nor will it ever end. Billy Graham, as well as ever Christian is a member of the Catholic Church, although they may not practice the teachings of the Church they are still members. You are a member of the Catholic Church if you are a Christian. You may deny the fact but it is still a fact, according to the Catholic Church. It’s really not important what anyone thinks, either practicing Catholic or not. What matters is the official teaching of the Church. The teaching of the Church is that every Christian, belonging to the body of Christ, is a Catholic. The Church is indeed all who believe, but the Church of the Bible, the earthly Church which Jesus instituted is also an organization, Instituted by Jesus and managed by humans. That is also the Catholic Church. We are all members of the Catholic Church.

 

[JWilson]

Where does it ever say in the Bible that the Grace of God is only bestowed on the recipients of the sacraments?His Grace is for all of us and we receive it by faith.It is not received by works lest any man should boast.So if I get married,take communion,get baptized etc. I have a better chance of getting to heaven??How wrong that is!!!Jesus himself said unless you are born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.You can do all the sacraments you want but they won’t save you.

 

[JWilson]

Tom,

Did Jesus ever say "The Catholic Church?"I have never read the word catholic in any Bible.Please fill me in on this one if you can.When did “catholic” come in to existence?

 

[TylerAlex]

You are correct, the further one strays from the teaching of the Church the more in peril one becomes. Where is the line ? God only knows, since He is the one judging. “If” you live by the teachings of the Catholic Church you stand a far better chance of realizing your eternal salvation. The fact is that the Catholic Church teaches the true faith. Is it possible for any person to attain their salvation who is a Protestant? Certainly, but it is harder for that person because they may be missing the grace of God bestowed upon recipients of the Sacraments.

Precisely… and I think you and I are in an agreement on that point.

You said, “Where is the line ? God only knows, since He is the one judging.” That’s is where I think the big ambiguity is… where is the line that can separate us from the Catholic Church and God himself. Some may say that the line starts with even just a small sin against God.

God is the ***final ***authority on judging where the line is… but can he still give the Catholic Church the ability to delineate those boundaries? In some cases, make some very hard-line dinstinctions.

You also said:

“Is it possible for any person to attain their salvation who is a Protestant? Certainly, but it is harder for that person because they may be missing the grace of God bestowed upon recipients of the Sacraments.”

That was essentially my question from the beginning. By “missing the grace of God bestowed upon recipients of the Sacraments”, and a failure to reconcile back with the Catholic Church (barring Baptism of Desire, Baptism of Blood and Ingnorance), it does make it hard… if not impossible in many cases. Ultimately, you are right… God will judge.

Clearly, Billy Graham is separated from the Catholic Church… to what degree, I am not totally certain. It is, however, intriguing that his separation may have an impact on his salvation despite his great and profound works.

Do you agree?

 

[MrS]

Maranatha,

Eph 2:8,9 says, for by grace you have been saved through faith,and that not of yourselves,it is the gift of God,not of works lest anyone should boast.

This is why I believe we can be saved by faith alone.I’m not saying that you shouldn’t do good works as well but the good works is not what saves you.this is why I refer to the guy on the cross beside Jesus.His faith saved him but only by God’s grace was that made possible.

how about the next verse??? hhmmmm??

Eph 2: 10 “… For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

selective verse quoting is what gets non-Catholics deeper in difficulty.

.

 

[MrS]

Tom,

Did Jesus ever say "The Catholic Church?"I have never read the word catholic in any Bible.Please fill me in on this one if you can.When did “catholic” come in to existence?

“Catholic” was used no later than the early 2nd century, around 110. I say no later, because it probably was used before it appeared in writing by Ignatius.

The earliest “title” of the only Christian Church for the first 1500+ years was probably “The Way”… but so what. The early Church described in Acts only matches the Catholic Church…

Jesus only declared that He would build His Church on Peter, the rock.

No other faith community can link to the Apostles and Jesus Himself except for the Catholic Church. Makes sense… it is the only candidate for the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church.

 

[JWilson]

Billy Graham has always said you cannot be saved by your works.Can you not see his sincerity,his love for God and such a desire to lead people to Christ?He no longer does his crusades due to his old age (88yrs)but when he did he would always tell people to come as they are.The song 'Just as I am without one plea,that thou my God shouldst die for me" was one he they always sang at his crusades.He never once said at his crusades that you must do all the sacraments and some great works to earn yourself to heaven.Good works and the sacraments are great but bottom line is they don’t save you.Members of the mafia are so called catholics and do these things.

 

[MrS]

Tom,

Did Jesus ever say "The Catholic Church?"I have never read the word catholic in any Bible.Please fill me in on this one if you can.When did “catholic” come in to existence?

I would only guess that the name Catholic is not the critical doctine…

else the Catholic Church, through which we got the Bible, would have included something to satisfy you. The Holy Spirit did not think that was necessary, … only that the Church is the only one founded by Jesus Himself… and only the Church has the promises attached to it that He gave us.

 

[JWilson]

MrS
I read that one of the reasons the whole reformation happened was because the catholic doctrine had added praying to Mary and confessing sins to a priest rather than God Himself.Martin Luther objected to this and so the separation began.What do you know about this?Why do you say the reformation happened?

 

[MrS]

Billy Graham has always said you cannot be saved by your works.Can you not see his sincerity,his love for God and such a desire to lead people to Christ?He no longer does his crusades due to his old age (88yrs)but when he did he would always tell people to come as they are.The song 'Just as I am without one plea,that thou my God shouldst die for me" was one he they always sang at his crusades.He never once said at his crusades that you must do all the sacraments and some great works to earn yourself to heaven.Good works and the sacraments are great but bottom line is they don’t save you.Members of the mafia are so called catholics and do these things.

In the end, it does not matter what BG has said or not said…

We must believe in Jesus… and if you know anything about what the word believe meant to those early writers, and the Catholic Christians they wrote to, you remember that it means obey. Obey is the meaning of believe. The scripture then further explains it by following up with what happens to the opposite of beleive by calling it disobedience.

The toughest thing said by Jesus that we must obey is found in John 6. Afterall, many walked away. They knew, they rejected.

As for Dr Graham… God love him and protect him as He does us all. But even St. Paul asked the early Catholic Christians to pray for him, lest he fall away after coming to the Lord.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Ok… you are all taking the easy way out of the question…

I don’t think they were taking the “easy way out” but trying to teach you orthodox theology on the matter. The entire question is absurd according to Catholic theology.

To the gift of faith must be given the gift of perseverance. Yet, according ot Catholic theology one cannot know–without a supernatural revelation from God–who has been given this gift of final perseverance.

I believe that is the point those above are trying to make.

Maybe I should rephrase the question to… “Is it likely or unlikely that Bill Graham will go to heaven?”

If Billy Graham was predestined to eternal glory by God (ie. among the elect), then he will persevere to the end and attain eternal glory.

… clarify if whether what Billy Graham and his Ministry does has Mortal Sin consequences to it.

Since Billy Graham teaches contrary to Divine and Catholic faith, his ministry teaches heresy, a damnable sin. However, MORTAL sin requires 1) grave matter, 2) full advertence, and 3) perfect consent. Thus, to the objective element of grave matter, there must also be present two subjective elements which ONLY GOD knows and judges.

Consequently, the answer remains, only God knows.

 

[MrS]

MrS
I read that one of the reasons the whole reformation happened was because the catholic doctrine had added praying to Mary and confessing sins to a priest rather than God Himself.Martin Luther objected to this and so the separation began.What do you know about this?Why do you say the reformation happened?

Beyond a doubt… the best work on this subject, and your question in particular is by Karl Adam. It is called the "Roots of the Reformation"… about 100 pages. He does not sugar coat anything, and he tells it like it was… including the serious problems of the Catholic Church.

I say the reformation “happened” because pride prevented Luther from trying to reform inside the Church. He led some bad Church leaders upset him to the point where he decided to do it himself.

As for Mary… I can only refer to Luke “…all generations shall call me blessed”
This is not said by or about anyone else.

As for confessing… the Sunday night after Easter, in the upper room, the Lord first declared that He had all power from the Father… and then confered the power to declare sins forgiven or not. “…whose sins you shall forgive…” This power was given to the Apostles, and they were also empowered to “lay on hands” and carry on the work of a very visible Church with a hierarchy.

As to Martin Luther’s objections… he had a lot … and many were well founded and were, over time, corrected. But he choose to follow a life that would allow him to marry, and to lead to the two great errors of the Reformation… the sola’s. Luther, by the way, loved and venerated Mary.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

…
We know out of fact that BIll Grahaham knew and understood what the Catholic Faith stands for…

I disagree. Sin requires voluntariness. There are impediments to voluntariness which not even Billy Graham may be conscious of. Only God only knows the impediments to one’s intellect and will, and thus only God knows the barriers to assent with the truth, your rather simplistic notion of “knowing” notwithstanding.

In the final analysis, our job is not to judge that he will attain eternal life or not. Our job is to teach the Catholic truth and let God do the judging.

 

[MrS]

If Billy Graham was predestined to eternal glory by God (ie. among the elect), then he will persevere to the end and attain eternal glory.

Since Billy Graham teaches contrary to Divine and Catholic faith, his ministry teaches heresy, a damnable sin. However, MORTAL sin requires 1) grave matter, 2) full advertence, and 3) perfect consent. Thus, to the objective element of grave matter, there must also be present two subjective elements which ONLY GOD knows and judges.

Consequently, the answer remains, only God knows.

Therein lies the difference between the Church and all the faith communities.

Personally, I don’t know if Billy Graham knows any better than what he teaches. He is undoubtedly sincere. But on some things he is sincerely wrong.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Therein lies the difference between the Church and all the faith communities.

Personally, I don’t know if Billy Graham knows any better than what he teaches. He is undoubtedly sincere. But on some things he is sincerely wrong.

I agree.

He teaches contrary to the Catholic Church, and as such I know he continues to cling to heresy. We are to teach the truth and not concern ourselves with who has been predestined to finally persevere and attain eternal life. We ought to stick to OUR job and trust that God will do His.

That means, to the extent that Billy Graham teaches heresy, we are to refute such teaching. We are not free to tolerate error in such a way as to pretend it isn’t error. We are called to uphold the truth and refute error.

 

[Image_of_God]

Dave is right, to an extent. Graham can be saved, but it is not as assured as a holy Catholic who has the full truth.

Fr. Most does a wonderful article on “No Salvation Outside the Church.”
I hope this helps Tyler:
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/chura5.htm

 

[TylerAlex]

In the final analysis, our job is not to judge that he will attain eternal life or not. **Our job is to teach the Catholic truth **and let God do the judging.

But what exactly is the “truth” you are getting at? Truth implies the negative- which is falsehood… or, in other words, right and wrong. Since there is truth, there is falsehood.

My questions simply ask about the implications of being on the opposite side of truth and the varying degrees of such.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Mr. S>>As for Dr Graham… God love him and protect him as He does us all. But even St. Paul asked the early Catholic Christians to pray for him, lest he fall away after coming to the Lord.

But what he was asking them to do was pray that he would not lose the rewards for service. He did not want to be disqualified from the race so to speak. Rewards are earned; salvation is a gift. He did not want to lose the rewards he had earned.

As for Luther, I think he got the church back on the right track with the two solas. As for Mary, yes the Bible says all generations shall call her blessed but Luke also says, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”. So though Mary is called blessed, she is no greater than you or I. In fact, those who hear the word of God and keep it are even more blessed.

 

[JWilson]

I believe he is going to heaven without a doubt.That is only my belief and of course not the final authority on that matter.He spent 60 years telling people that God loves them and how they can be saved.Protestants believe that we can have a ‘know so’ salvation as apposed to a "hope so’ one that catholics believe.We believe in Bible based teaching and anything that contradicts or adds to what is written is wrong and a sin.The word doctrine came about because of different interpretations of the Bible.You can’t tell me the rosary,confessing sins to a priest,hailing Mary, and purgatory are in the Bible.So if they are not in the Bible who made these things up?The Church?Without the Bible how would we even know how to live?It is the inspired word of God and I choose to live by it rather than what the church doctrine tells me I can and cannot do.How would I know a lie if I didn’t have the Bible to tell me so ?'Jesus loves me this I know,for the Bible tells me so.I should hope if a priest gives a sermon that it is Bible based and not something off the top of his head or something only the catholic church says to be true.I think this is where the catholics and protestants differ the most.