Will Catholic beliefs be deemed "hate speech"?

[ColoradoCatholic]

Visa can and did. That doesn’t change the fact of why and how it affects the website.

To get back to the topic, this kind of thing probably will happen to the Catholic Church via taxes, and other regulations which we’ve already seen. Pretty scary stuff, but they can’t take our will to meet in church, and then privately if that becomes illegal.

 

[Freddy]

How would they completely isolate themselves from the state?

I meant financially. It appears that there’s an argument that if the charity accepts government financial aid then they therefore have to follow the government rules and regs. Personally I would have thought that they’d have to anyway. A private company doesn’t get hand outs from the government but would still need to abide by non discriminatory laws.

Maybe someone who is legally minded could clarify.

 

[Freddy]

Visa can and did. That doesn’t change the fact of why and how it affects the website.

To get back to the topic, this kind of thing probably will happen to the Catholic Church via taxes, and other regulations which we’ve already seen. Pretty scary stuff, but they can’t take our will to meet in church, and then privately if that becomes illegal.

If you’ve got a few minutes to spare, go out into the back yard and check the sky. I guarantee you’ll find it’s not falling.

Who is ‘they’ by the way?

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

Our government leaders and the government itself. Seems to be the “in thing” right now to take away basic human rights like the freedom to practice religion and do what you want with your business and body.

If you’ve got a few minutes to spare, go out into the back yard and check the sky. I guarantee you’ll find it’s not falling.

sorry if something I said touched a nerve, but this doesn’t help anything.

 

[Freddy]

Our government leaders and the government itself. Seems to be the “in thing” right now to take away basic human rights like the freedom to practice religion…

I assumed from your forum name that you hailed from that exceptionally beautiful state of Colorado. I didn’t know you lived in China.

 

[Hume]

It is possible to be persecuted in such a way. The real question is how many Catholics will resist. As Catholics, we are called to lay down our lives for Christ. Will we lay them down in a time of this kind of persecution? I would say that 80+% would give in, and only a small percent would stay the course. This is why we need to study and live a devout life so we are strong in our faith and cannot be moved. Jesus said we will be tested.

How are you going to “resist” in this case? You can’t very well make Visa process a payment they don’t want to. Private company and all…

 

[ThinkingSapien]

not sure what you are saying.

We do not have, not have ever had, absolute free speech.

If they don’t like what your platform does they make it impossible for you to do business.

As far as I can tell visa is informing Visa merchants not to process their payments on Visa’s network. I’ve not seen they were speaking to non-Visa processors.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

We do not have, not have ever had, absolute free speech.

Correct if you are referring to slander, but we have had the ability to freely speak our mind so long as it doesn’t infringe on others pursuits of life, liberty, happiness at least in America. That is now being questioned, which is very similar to what the founding father’s were running away from namely: Oppressive Ruling Powers/ Government. You (not you, but Americans) have a right to be the biggest jerks and say extremely racist things IF YOU WANT TO, or you can do the complete opposite and no oppressive body is going to force you to stop, that’s the beauty of America.

As far as I can tell visa is informing Visa merchants not to process their payments on Visa’s network. I’ve not seen they were speaking to non-Visa processors.

from the article it seems that their only processor is Visa, which effectively destroys their business. If they could find another sure, but who’s going to take that on immediately? The motive behind it though doesn’t make sense otherwise Visa didn’t know what they were signing up for the in the first place.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

I assumed from your forum name that you hailed from that exceptionally beautiful state of Colorado. I didn’t know you lived in China.

Nobody said anything about living in China…

But if you are arguing that our rights to pursue religion, and practice personal business, and do what we want with our bodies is not being infringed upon currently I’d say that you haven’t seen whats going on for the past couple months.

just yesterday I went to a restaurant that was handing out masks to customers because the government was going to fine them $1000 dollars a head for anyone caught entering or exiting the building without a mask! That was spoken to me by the MANAGER of the restaurant. Now how is that not infringing on owning and operating your own business?

what about the shutdown of churches? I could go on, but I don’t think I need to. That fact is that things ARE happening that are contrary to the beliefs this country was built on, and it is scary. I think it would be foolish not to think that in the next 10 years our religion and the practice of Catholicism in America will be infringed upon! In fact, its already happening in Catholic hospitals that are forced to have artificial contraceptives available even though its against our beliefs and that has been happening for years.

 

[Dolphin]

Meh, I think this question only leads to paranoia.

We are called to imitate Jesus. Well what happened to Him? He suffered and died for the truth of the Gospel. We may not literally die for it, but we do die in little ways (less social acceptance or popularity) in order to uphold the truth of the God who is Mercy.

No it will not be hate speech… but yes we will be less accepting and viewed as intolerant. What matters is not what others think of us. What matters is the impact we make on the world and what God thinks of us

 

[c4csp]

How are you going to “resist” in this case? You can’t very well make Visa process a payment they don’t want to. Private company and all…

We are going to lay down our lives. We will give up our jobs, homes, etc. We will go live in the wilderness or on the streets. We will lay down our lives for the truth. Yes, we are called to that.

Ex. Say our credit and finances were now under government control and we had to sign a legal document stating that we accept the government holds full authority over (insert whatever) even including your religious beliefs. Would you sign? Basically you would be living on the street if you didn’t. We are called to that. We all need to go read the lives of the martyrs. We are all called to that. The question is, how strong is your faith?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I assumed from your forum name that you hailed from that exceptionally beautiful state of Colorado. I didn’t know you lived in China.

Nobody said anything about living in China…

But if you are arguing that our rights to pursue religion… is not being infringed upon currently…

Has someone told you that you can’t practice your religion? Let me know who they are if you could. I’d like to get in touch with them to tell them it’s not allowed.

And one quarter of all deaths world wide due to covid 19 have ocurred in the US. You’ve had nearly 3 million cases. And if you’ve been paying attention, the situation in a lot of the country is getting worse. People in other parts of the world have told your government that Americans are not welcome and won’t be welcome until you get your act together.

Unfortunately, those who treat basic health precautions as an affront to civil liberties will ensure that that situation will remain for some time and more Americans will die needlessly.

 

[Freddy]

Hume:

How are you going to “resist” in this case? You can’t very well make Visa process a payment they don’t want to. Private company and all…

We are going to lay down our lives. We will give up our jobs, homes, etc. We will go live in the wilderness or on the streets. We will lay down our lives for the truth. Yes, we are called to that.

I think you need to chill a little c4. It’s a discussion about a credit card company deciding who they will work with. How on earth did we get to running for the hills and laying down your life in a few dozen posts?

 

[Hume]

Hume:

How are you going to “resist” in this case? You can’t very well make Visa process a payment they don’t want to. Private company and all…

We are going to lay down our lives. We will give up our jobs, homes, etc. We will go live in the wilderness or on the streets. We will lay down our lives for the truth. Yes, we are called to that.

Ex. Say our credit and finances were now under government control and we had to sign a legal document stating that we accept the government holds full authority over (insert whatever) even including your religious beliefs. Would you sign? Basically you would be living on the street if you didn’t. We are called to that. We all need to go read the lives of the martyrs. We are all called to that. The question is, how strong is your faith?

Seems a little strong to me.

I’d just use a check or cash…

 

[c4csp]

I think you need to chill a little c4. It’s a discussion about a credit card company deciding who they will work with. How on earth did we get to running for the hills and laying down your life in a few dozen posts?

Seems a little strong to me.

I’d just use a check or cash…

Use cash if you can get it.

We all need to be prepared for the time when we will be tested. I don’t think Catholics today really understand the suffering we are called to. Suffering is not resisting the urge to fornicate with your girlfriend folks. We are called to great suffering. We need to be well prepared.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I think you need to chill a little c4. It’s a discussion about a credit card company deciding who they will work with. How on earth did we get to running for the hills and laying down your life in a few dozen posts?

Seems a little strong to me.

I’d just use a check or cash…

Use cash if you can get it.

We all need to be prepared for the time when we will be tested. I don’t think Catholics today really understand the suffering we are called to. Suffering is not resisting the urge to fornicate with your girlfriend folks. We are called to great suffering. We need to be well prepared.

Lots of people around the world are suffering right now. Hunger, deprivation, violence, homelessness, disease…the list goes on. If you seem to think you are actually called upon to suffer as if it’s something you can stoically endure for your greater benefit, then help those in need. Sell everything and give to the poor. We can kill two birds with one stone then - you suffer for the greater good and people are helped into the bargain.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

lol look at the US navy they just sent out notification that they aren’t even allowed to attend church services off base…which if you don’t have a service on base means you cant practice, not to mention all the churches were closed for a very long time just a few months ago, are you just ignoring that?

And one quarter of all deaths world wide due to covid 19 have ocurred in the US. You’ve had nearly 3 million cases. And if you’ve been paying attention, the situation in a lot of the country is getting worse. People in other parts of the world have told your government that Americans are not welcome and won’t be welcome until you get your act together.

Unfortunately, those who treat basic health precautions as an affront to civil liberties will ensure that that situation will remain for some time and more Americans will die needlessly.

so now your blaming all future deaths on people who are advocating for our basic rights, ok, I’m going to go ahead and stop responding to you now. If you are going to blindly follow whatever those people on the news are telling you without thinking maybe they have an agenda too then just be ready to accept whatever they say when they tell you you can’t do things that you want to do anymore. That time is not far off.

Refusing to acknowledge that something very off is going on not only in America but around the world right now then I don’t know what to say to you. I remember you starting this conversation basically implying that I think the “sky is falling” and while I do not think that “that is the end,” its hard for me to understand refusing to recognize the severity of what is going on. You can’t bury you head in the sand forever.

 

[Freddy]

so now your blaming all future deaths on people who are advocating for our basic rights…

If ‘advocating for our basic rights’ means not taking health precautions deemed necessary by health experts…then yes. I am.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

but if you have de facto censorship over even vert milquetoast posts then you can’t argue that America’s free speech idea has truly been tried

In the USA the First Amendment only constrains government and those acting on behalf of the government. The situation being discussed has no state actors. There is a popular misconception the USA’s Constitutional Free Speech constrains parties outside the government. XKCD gave a great explanation of Constitutional Free Speech.

but we have had the ability to freely speak our mind

Yep, we do. And others afre free to respond.

so long as it doesn’t infringe on others pursuits of life, liberty, happiness at least in America.

A lot of that sounds like a philosophical aspiration more than a description of free speech constraints.

You (not you, but Americans) have a right to be the biggest jerks and say extremely racist things IF YOU WANT TO, or you can do the complete opposite and no oppressive body is going to force you to stop, that’s the beauty of America.

There are restrictions on government interfering with this. But this restrictions on government do not extend to private businesses and individuals that are not acting on behalf of the government.

from the article it seems that their only processor is Visa

From the past payment processors that refused to do business with Gab of which I am aware, the generally common attributes is that they were merchants that relied on the Visa network. I don’t know where PayPal falls. This has been going on since 2018. So there might be more.

If they could find another sure, but who’s going to take that on immediately?

So long as they allow the speech that they do selections will be slim. Profitable social networks tend to recognize the hand that feeds them and make decisions to stay in their good graces. YouTube Adpocolypse is a great example of this; Advertisers did not want their ads showing on extremist, white nationalist, or other controversial topics and boycotted YouTube or the Google Ad Network until protections were put in place to prevent their ads from showing on such things. Though those effected perceived it as YouTube choosing to punish them instead of viewing it as their content not being brand friendly.

Facebook is experiencing something similar this month.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

Do you believe certain aspects of our Catholic faith could be deemed discriminatory or “hate speech” and thus be forced to change or be denied the ability to conduct business? My parish processes online payments for donations, Visa could theoretically do what they are doing to Gab to many parishes.

If Catholics were to resurrect the Church’s pre~1850s arguments for justified slavery (ignoring the fact that Gaudium es spes declared there is no just slavery) I could easily see them being on thin ice with respect to hate speech.