Will Catholic beliefs be deemed "hate speech"?

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Tis_Bearself said:
Visa is a private company, not an arm of the government. They’re allowed to choose who they do and don’t work with.
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Isn’t this the issue though. Your allowed to choose who you do business with unless choosing not to bake a cake or photograph a wedding. Then it’s an problem.
 
You may be being facetious, but the US outlawed slavery in 1862 and it no longer existed in this country after the south lost the civil war. A major reason given for the destruction of public monuments and rioting occurring now is the United States history of slavery.

If the sins of America’s past can never be forgiven and thus it must be destroyed, as many of those rioting publicly state, why would those with that mindset forgive the “sins” of the catholic church and not seek to destroy it as well?
 
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Servant31 said:
Isn’t this the issue though. Your allowed to choose who you do business with unless choosing not to bake a cake or photograph a wedding. Then it’s an problem.
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If the refusal is because of reasons based on sex, race, religious classification, disability status, then it is a problem. Other states and cities may have other classifications added to this list such as gender expression or sexual identity. The conflict between Visa and Gab isn’t an instance of this.
 
Except that in the bakers’ and photographers’ case it is religious affiliation. They were targeted by people/groups to do just this.
 
In the US every citizen is guaranteed the right of “free exercise of their religion”. I think the argument being made by @Servant31 is that these anti-discrimination laws that protect “sexual expression” impede on the first amendment right of a Catholic to freely exercise their belief that a marriage can only be between one man and woman. And to participate in a ceremony with two same sex individuals would go completely agaisnt their religous beliefs surrounding marriage.

Please correct me if I interpreted you incorrectly @Servant31 and I will delete.
 
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ZemD said:
In the US every citizen is guaranteed the right of “free exercise of their religion”.
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We have free exercise within the constraints of the laws. While the Supreme Court views the right to belief absolute, exercise not so much. This is a lot more apparent if we consider for example a religion that had human sacrifice or those that believe that some sins should be punished by death.
 
ColoradoCatholic said:
think that is a consequence, but an unjust motive…I think dropping their site because they support free speech is not a very good option unless you are trying to control people and free speech…which would make it censored speech…which isn’t very free at all.
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Speaking only of US law.

“Unjust motive”. When our Church is clear that we are to respect others, love our enemies, to speak with love and not to hate, could you tell me how company policy against disrespectful, unloving, scandalous speech is unjust?

Again, a customer losing their vendor contract because the customer violated terms of service is not about free speech.

The constitution protects freedom of speech, However, it does not give me license to say what I want where I want whenever I want. My first amendment rights do not mean I can go to playground and start lecturing about how to slaughter and prepare humans as food.

If I come to your house and spray paint racial slurs all over, I am not protected from the penalties, fines, etc.

If you have a publishing company, you can choose not to publish my books. 1st amendment does not guarantee everyone a book deal!

Maybe spend time and take some courses on the Bill of Rights.
 
That same restaurant will be fined if they violate any of the health department regs. Those regs allow us to eat out knowing we are not going to be served pizza that was coughed on by a cook with terbuclous or to know that the workers wash their hands after they use the toilet.

Your claim about contraceptives in hospitals, are you aware that there are federal conscience protection laws and on top of that every State has additional laws?

The outrage encouraging sources fail often because they assume their audience is not going to seek out the facts.

I encourage you to dig more, learn about real oppression. Learn about 100 years worth of martyrs and persecution in Russia and it taught me a mask or a credit rating is an inconvenience
not persecution.
 
Simply put, Yes…it is logical to see the progression that churches will be forced to accept certain things that are in direct opposition of their faith in the name of equality.

No worries, just one step closer to His glorious return…because as we have been told…things are gonna get a whole lot worse before the final battle…
 
Servant31 said:
Isn’t this the issue though. Your allowed to choose who you do business with unless choosing not to bake a cake or photograph a wedding. Then it’s an problem.
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I don’t think an entitled mentality is good. The government doesn’t care about the Church or her teachings, so the best option is to just avoid conflict of interests.
 
For me this is the point though. We always back down. We started as a country amenable to religious liberty, and even founded with that principle. The idea from the founders that the government would be compelling someone to violate their conscience for such a trivial event is a metric for erosion imho. I have family members who fought in wars, lost friends. What do I say to them. “ hey grandpa thanks for being in an airborne division in ww2 with a unit that had a 95% casualty rate. I know you lost a lot of friends, but that doesn’t matter because they are offended. “ Liberties are no joke and once gone they are incredibly difficult to get back.
 
Servant31 said:
Except that in the bakers’ and photographers’ case it is religious affiliation. They were targeted by people/groups to do just this.
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Perhaps there have been other cases that I am unaware of but the baker in Colorado won his case. I agree that there can be a conflict in a case where a public facing business starts dictating which customers he/she serves. I don’t have answers for a good solution to a photographer being hired to do a gay wedding. My feeling is that if he does business with the public, he may have to take pictures if he’s hired to do so. I realize he won’t approve of the marriage but he isn’t being asked to approve of it…just do his job of snapping photos. How is this different from a doctor that’s Muslim treating a Jew in the ER? They aren’t expected to approve or disapprove of the people, just do their job.

Remember the case of a mixed race couple being refused a rented hall for their wedding because the owner’s religion didn’t approve of mixed race marriages? The case of a pharmacist refusing a medication to a woman for treatment of her miscarriage because the medicine can also be used for an abortion. Did he have the right to decide not to fill it even though it wasn’t being used for abortion? I think we are going to see more and more of these type of cases until we figure out where the lines can be drawn. I don’t WANT to take away anyone’s freedom of religion but I don’t want someone else’s freedom to impinge on mine. In the past, Christian privilege permitted many situations that are now being redefined and relooked at as the Christian position isn’t the default position anymore. This may actually not be infringing on your religion but it looks like it is from the past history of not being challenged.

Years ago, my family and I were refused a room at a motel. We never even considered filing a complaint. It would have been pointless. Today, it’s a different story. Non christians have some rights, too!
 
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Pattylt said:
How is this different from a doctor that’s Muslim treating a Jew in the ER? They aren’t expected to approve or disapprove of the people, just do their job.
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It’s not the people it is the event.
Pattylt said:
I don’t WANT to take away anyone’s freedom of religion but I don’t want someone else’s freedom to impinge on mine.
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That goes both ways, but I think the most flexible should change.
 
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Pattylt said:
I’m sorry but I’m not understanding what you mean here…who’s the most flexible and n what way? Sorry, I’m just dense sometimes! :crazy_face:
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It just seems easier to find someone else than to force someone to violate their conscience, but if there is some grave neccessity than that would be a different story.
 
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Ok! Gotcha! I agree that I, personally, wouldn’t want to give my business to someone opposed to me or my views but even you mentioned grave necessity…how is that defined? Does it mean only if other businesses can fulfill the role or what if they are the only business in town.

In the case of the hall rental for the mixed couple, they had to scramble to find another venue at the last minute because it was when they showed up soon before the event that the owner realized they were mixed race. I’d rather see clear lines and definitions rather than trying to determine if it’s a grave reason. We can discriminate against another unless it’s life or death? No, I’d rather know ahead of time when I can be discriminated against and when I can’t.

I think it’s reasonable to require a public facing business to have to do business with all the public. If they want to pick and choose their customers, they shouldn’t be in a public business. They can be a private, by appointment only, type otherwise. I understand many religious don’t approve of gay marriage but it’s a secular law that they can marry. I don’t have any answers but I think we are going to eventually have to have some clear guidelines and they probably won’t make everyone happy.
 
I’m not a Catholic, but surely you can’t seriously see any similarities between Gab and the Catholic Church. Gab facilitates actual hate speech. The stuff I am seeing on Gab right now is absolutely disgusting. E.g.:

Story: SEATTLE PROTEST: CAR CAREENS INTO CROWD … Protester Critically Injured

Comments on Gab:
Antifa pinball…score two!

‘memeber when Momma said: ‘Don’t play in da’ skreet!!"
I’s sho’ do!

More of this, please. People who stand in the middle of highways don’t deserve to live.

As soon as the cops are defunded, we can do this at will! I recommend a truck with a solid steel bumper, though, or a snow-plow attachment, if you have the money.

We can only pray that those injured will make a slow and painful recovery.

Good riddance to roadkill

SOUND FUNNY TO ME, WISH SOME CLOWNS GET IN FRONT MY CAR, BOW;ING FOR COMMUNIST MORONS

Let those ignorant leftist bastards know THEY are now targets as well. I like the idea that some folks are using Antifa trash as bullseyes and crash test dummies. May it happen more and more as each day passes.

Good. Hope they die.
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Now, does the Catholic Church publish stuff like this? Gab is literally encouraging people to kill other people and telling them how to do it.
ZemD said:
What if Visa did this to all members of a Cathoilc parish and thier families?
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Do you really think that Visa is going to stop processing payments to or from (1) Catholic parishes, (2) members of Catholic parishes, (3) members of the families of members of Catholic parishes? Clearly this is ridiculous.
 
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