Will Catholics who use artificial birth control go to Hell? ---POLL!

[buffalo]

thechrismyster:

hmmm, i have a question, if a person dies in a state of mortal sin they go to hell, but if their last breathe is repentance, they are forgiven.
doesn’t that negate the effect of confession?? that seems to tell me that mortal sins are forgiven just by asking for forgiveness.
i thought mortal sins MUST be confessed.

Only God forgives sin

[1441](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1441.htm’) Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

Reconciliation with the Church

[1444](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1444.htm’) In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ’s solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."45 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."46

[1445](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1445.htm’) The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.

The sacrament of forgiveness

[%between%](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1446.htm’)

[1483](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1483.htm’) In case of grave necessity recourse may be had to a communal celebration of reconciliation with general confession and general absolution. Grave necessity of this sort can arise when there is imminent danger of death without sufficient time for the priest or priests to hear each penitent’s confession. Grave necessity can also exist when, given the number of penitents, there are not enough confessors to hear individual confessions properly in a reasonable time, so that the penitents through no fault of their own would be deprived of sacramental grace or Holy Communion for a long time. In this case, for the absolution to be valid the faithful must have the intention of individually confessing their grave sins in the time required.92 The diocesan bishop is the judge of whether or not the conditions required for general absolution exist.93 A large gathering of the faithful on the occasion of major feasts or pilgrimages does not constitute a case of grave necessity.94

[1484](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1484.htm’) “Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession.**”**95 There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: "My son, your sins are forgiven."96 He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them.97 He raises them up and reintegrates them into fraternal communion. Personal confession is thus the form most expressive of reconciliation with God and with the Church.

 

[pittsburghjeff]

thechrismyster:

hmmm, i have a question, if a person dies in a state of mortal sin they go to hell, but if their last breathe is repentance, they are forgiven.
doesn’t that negate the effect of confession?? that seems to tell me that mortal sins are forgiven just by asking for forgiveness.
i thought mortal sins MUST be confessed.

No…look in the Catechism for “perfect act of contrition”

Generally speaking, sins must be confessed.

However if one is truly sorry for their sins, and they are sorry because they love God (and not for fear of punishment or another reason) and they resolve to go to confession as soon as possible then their sins are forgiven.

It does not negate the need for confession because one must resolve to go as soon as possible. The only thing it does is save the person who might die in a car wreck on the way to confession or bleed to death from a bullet wound before he can get to confession.

 

[lilder]

So what about purgatory?

Lilder

 

[pittsburghjeff]

lilder:

So what about purgatory?

Lilder

Oh geesh…I am going to take my best stab at this one but someone who knows more than me please correct me if I get something wrong

1. Everyone who goes to purgatory eventually gets into heaven.
2. Everyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to hell.

So, the question is when someone who contracepts without full knowledge of their sin dies and has not other unrepentant mortal sin - do they have to go to purgatory before heaven?

All sin stains the soul. And nothing unclean can get into heaven. Just confessing a sin is not enough to clean the stain.
In order to clean the stain, one must suffer the temporal effects of sin.

There are several ways to “expiate” sin:

1. You can suffer the temporal effects on this earth through suffering
2. You can be granted an indulgence through good works
3. Or you can end up going to purgatory if the stain has not been expiated during your time here on earth

So in summary, there is no way to answer your question. It all depends on whether the stain from contracepting without full knowledge has been expiated here on earth. Also, one must take into account all the other sins the person committed.

That was my best stab. Someone else please review this and see if I said anything incorrect.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

What is it with this morbid fascination with deciding whether or not somebody else is going to Hell? You are not engaging in a harmless parlor game… this is a question of eternal life and death! Doesn’t the mere idea of anyone at all suffering eternity in the absence of God make your head swim and your stomach drop? Are any of you in tears over the thought of that loss? Are none of you in fear of judgement on yourselves? Stop it, already!

(If anyone else wondered out loud what percentage of drug abusers were going to end up committing suicide in the next year, you’d all think the person was a sicko.)

 

[buffalo]

pittsburghjeff:

Oh geesh…I am going to take my best stab at this one but someone who knows more than me please correct me if I get something wrong

1. Everyone who goes to purgatory eventually gets into heaven.
2. Everyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to hell.

So, the question is when someone who contracepts without full knowledge of their sin dies and has not other unrepentant mortal sin - do they have to go to purgatory before heaven?

All sin stains the soul. And nothing unclean can get into heaven. Just confessing a sin is not enough to clean the stain.
In order to clean the stain, one must suffer the temporal effects of sin.

There are several ways to “expiate” sin:

1. You can suffer the temporal effects on this earth through suffering
2. You can be granted an indulgence through good works
3. Or you can end up going to purgatory if the stain has not been expiated during your time here on earth

So in summary, there is no way to answer your question. It all depends on whether the stain from contracepting without full knowledge has been expiated here on earth. Also, one must take into account all the other sins the person committed.

That was my best stab. Someone else please review this and see if I said anything incorrect.

Pretty Good!

All sin both venial and mortal must be expiated. Going to Mass is another way to expiate venial sin.

**1394 **As bodily nourishment restores lost strength, so the Eucharist strengthens our charity, which tends to be weakened in daily life; and this living charity wipes away venial sins. By giving himself to us Christ revives our love and enables us to break our disordered attachments to creatures and root ourselves in him:

Since Christ died for us out of love, when we celebrate the memorial of his death at the moment of sacrifice we ask that love may be granted to us by the coming of the Holy Spirit. We humbly pray that in the strength of this love by which Christ willed to die for us, we, by receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, may be able to consider the world as crucified for us, and to be ourselves as crucified to the world. . . . Having received the gift of love, let us die to sin and live for God.

**1414 **As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.

**1436 **Eucharist and Penance. Daily conversion and penance find their source and nourishment in the Eucharist, for in it is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God. Through the Eucharist those who live from the life of Christ are fed and strengthened. “It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins.”

 

[lilder]

Pittsburghjeff & Buffallo ~~ Thank you! That was very helpful.
So…purgatory does not make up for unrepented sin. It is only the final “refinement”. I have always been unclear on this. And your explinations are a great help.
Lilder

 

[buffalo]

lilder:

Pittsburghjeff & Buffallo ~~ Thank you! That was very helpful.
So…purgatory does not make up for unrepented sin. It is only the final “refinement”. I have always been unclear on this. And your explinations are a great help.
Lilder

I have also heard the word purgation - as a process. A cleansing process.

Here is the Catechism on Purgatory:

About Purgatory

1030. "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. "

1031. "The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.[Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.] The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:[Cf. 1 Cor 3:15 ; 1 Pet 1:7 .] As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.[St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. Mt 12:31 .] "

1032. “This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: ‘Therefore Judas Maccabeus made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.’[2 Macc 12:46 .] From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.[Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.] The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.[St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. Job 1:5 .]”

 

[SavedByHim]

Before I start, I just want to say that I don’t want to hear any “tsk tsk tsks” for what I’m about to say. I’m working through the issues with God and my husband, I would prefer not to receive judgement from anyone here.

That said…

I had been on the pill for most of my adult life. My husband and I decided we were “ready” (financially and otherwise) to have a baby and so I went off the pill. That next month, we were blessed with a pregnancy and nine months later, a healthy baby girl.

Since then, I’ve not went back on the pill mostly because of nursing, but also because of this forum and learning that artificial contraception is a sin. BUT, my husband will not have unprotected sex with me. He insists on a condom because he is not “ready” for another baby yet. Frankly, I’m not sure I am either, (my daughter’s only 9 months old) but I would be excited and very happy if I were to find out I was pregnant. (Being “ready” and excited for a baby are two different things…)

Anyways, what is a wife to do in this position? Refuse her husband and refrain from sex? (And keep in mind that my husband is not Catholic…) Do I make him “suffer” for beliefs that are part of my religion and not his?

Also, do you people really believe that if you are not “ready” for another child that God will not give you what you can’t handle? I’m not trying to be snotty, I’m really amazed at the leap of faith that it takes to do that. If I had 5 kids, and REALLY could NOT afford anymore or we would be on welfare, I would really just have to say “OK God, you know our situation, so please no more babies.”?

I strive for that kind of faith, but unfortunately, I guess I’m just not there yet.

Well, that’s enough rambling I guess. It’s just that the whole contraception thing really stirs me up. Bottom line — yes, my husband and I contracept, but I still believe that my way to heaven is not blocked off…

Not “hate posts” please.

 

[buffalo]

SavedByHim:

Also, do you people really believe that if you are not “ready” for another child that God will not give you what you can’t handle? I’m not trying to be snotty, I’m really amazed at the leap of faith that it takes to do that. If I had 5 kids, and REALLY could NOT afford anymore or we would be on welfare, I would really just have to say “OK God, you know our situation, so please no more babies.”?

I strive for that kind of faith, but unfortunately, I guess I’m just not there yet.

If you haven’t check out the threads about NFP. (natural family planning)

Yes - the leap of faith is key. Listen to stories of others who felt they could not afford another child and how God has provided.

Check out these links:

One More Soul (Find A Natural Family Planning Physician in Your Area)

Pope Paul VI Institute (Morally and Professionally Accepted Reproductive Health Care Services)

Polycarp Research Institute

 

[buffalo]

Women of Grace

 

[BLB_Oregon]

pittsburghjeff:

Most priests and Bishops don’t talk about contraception because they are cowards.

That comment is out of line. Do you talk in that manner about your parents? Surely you can express your opinion more respectfully.

 

[JGC]

pittsburghjeff:

A sin is always commmitted when one contracepts. If people are ignorant than the sin is not mortal. Sin is always sin. The only distinction has to do with the punsihment attached to the sin.

Most priests and Bishops don’t talk about contraception because they are cowards. I don’t think there is a hidden agenda

.

Most? If you believe that ‘most’ of the episcopate and the priesthood are cowards do you believe that the Church enjoys any protection from the holy spirit?

 

[JGC]

SavedByHim:

Before I start, I just want to say that I don’t want to hear any “tsk tsk tsks” for what I’m about to say. I’m working through the issues with God and my husband, I would prefer not to receive judgement from anyone here.

Not “hate posts” please.

I find it sad you would expect to recieve any such posts. Although having participated on these boards for a short time, my expereince is that you are probably right (although these guys are in a minority )

 

[pittsburghjeff]

BLB_Oregon:

That comment is out of line. Do you talk in that manner about your parents? Surely you can express your opinion more respectfully.

Perhaps I could have been more clear in my language but I do not retract the word “coward”.

“Most” was meant to refer to most of the priests or Bishops who do not teach why contraception was wrong as is their duty.
“Most” was not intended to refer to most of all the priests and bishops, rather most of the subset of priests and bishops who do not discuss contraception.

The question was posed as to why the church’s teaching on contraception is not discussed. The poster before said it was due to some conspiracy to not educate the faithful. I dont believe there is a conspiracy. They are just “cowards” to discuss controversy.

And as for the poster who challenged my faith in whether I believe the spirit guides the Church, you know that the spirit’s protection does not guarantee that individual Bishops will have the guts to speak at the right time. It only guarantees when they speak in union with eachother and the pope, they will speak free from error.

 

[agname]

WhiteDove:

I hear that most Catholic couples use artificial birth control and still take communion. If they die unrepentant, will they go to Hell?

Mortal sin requires knowledge and consent.

 

[JGC]

pittsburghjeff:

And as for the poster who challenged my faith in whether I believe the spirit guides the Church, you know that the spirit’s protection does not guarantee that individual Bishops will have the guts to speak at the right time. It only guarantees when they speak in union with eachother and the pope, they will speak free from error.

Whoa, I asked you a question, I didn’t question your faith. I was curious to hear your response. Don’t jump the gun!

I share your views actually. E.G. Arianism - The whole world groaned to find it was Arian… where a large section of the episcopate adopted this heresy.

Take it easy.

 

[1ke]

buffalo:

Is that the reason why priests don’t talk about it? If everyone is kept ignorant then no sin is committed. Is there a hidden agenda?

You are applying a universal statement when only a particular can be applied.

Some priests do not talk about contraception at all. Some priests talk about contraception dissenting from Church teaching. Some priests talk about contraception affirming Church teaching.

I have met priests in each of these three categories.

Each of these groups of priests and individual priests may or may not have an overt agenda when doing so.

 

[1ke]

SavedByHim:

Anyways, what is a wife to do in this position? Refuse her husband and refrain from sex? (And keep in mind that my husband is not Catholic…) Do I make him “suffer” for beliefs that are part of my religion and not his?

Also, do you people really believe that if you are not “ready” for another child that God will not give you what you can’t handle? I’m not trying to be snotty, I’m really amazed at the leap of faith that it takes to do that. If I had 5 kids, and REALLY could NOT afford anymore or we would be on welfare, I would really just have to say “OK God, you know our situation, so please no more babies.”?

A wife in the situation you describe is not sinning. She is not contracepting. The husband is the one contracepting. The wife can do nothing to contracept-- such as pill, IUD, sponges, etc-- but can “tolerate” the contracepting of the spouse in a passive way. The wife should continue to educate the husband and continue to press for no contraception. However, the wife does not have to refrain from relations.

I’d suggest getting lots of good information from the website www.omsoul.com including info on contraception & NFP. Read it and then share knowledgeably with your husband.

Also, point out to your husband that condoms are only 85% reliable while NFP is 99% reliable. Would you rather trust your own daily observations or something “made in China” or “made in America” or “made” anywhere…such as condoms… that will have both a manufacturers defect rate and a usage defect rate. With NFP you always know when conception is possible and when its not. Much more peace of mind I should think.

As to the second question. Some people are what are called “providentialists” and do not observe signs of fertility or space/plan children at all. The Church does not teach that one must be a providentialist. The Church teaches that we cooperate with God and knowing our fertility cycles aids us in being good stewards of our families, and that we may legitimately postpone pregnancy for serious reasons. Each couple should prayerfully determine what a serious reason might be. The means we use to postpone additional children cannot be contraception. Periodic abstinence during the fertile time is allowed.

 

[agname]

SavedByHim:

Before I start, I just want to say that I don’t want to hear any “tsk tsk tsks” for what I’m about to say. I’m working through the issues with God and my husband, I would prefer not to receive judgement from anyone here.

That said…

I had been on the pill for most of my adult life. My husband and I decided we were “ready” (financially and otherwise) to have a baby and so I went off the pill. That next month, we were blessed with a pregnancy and nine months later, a healthy baby girl.

Since then, I’ve not went back on the pill mostly because of nursing, but also because of this forum and learning that artificial contraception is a sin. BUT, my husband will not have unprotected sex with me. He insists on a condom because he is not “ready” for another baby yet. Frankly, I’m not sure I am either, (my daughter’s only 9 months old) but I would be excited and very happy if I were to find out I was pregnant. (Being “ready” and excited for a baby are two different things…)

Anyways, what is a wife to do in this position? Refuse her husband and refrain from sex? (And keep in mind that my husband is not Catholic…) Do I make him “suffer” for beliefs that are part of my religion and not his?

Also, do you people really believe that if you are not “ready” for another child that God will not give you what you can’t handle? I’m not trying to be snotty, I’m really amazed at the leap of faith that it takes to do that. If I had 5 kids, and REALLY could NOT afford anymore or we would be on welfare, I would really just have to say “OK God, you know our situation, so please no more babies.”?

I strive for that kind of faith, but unfortunately, I guess I’m just not there yet.

Well, that’s enough rambling I guess. It’s just that the whole contraception thing really stirs me up. Bottom line — yes, my husband and I contracept, but I still believe that my way to heaven is not blocked off…

Not “hate posts” please.

First, a wife is not obligated to “put out” for her husband…for his own personal gratification, etc.

Second, NFP is 99% affective…when done correctly.

“Do I make him “suffer” for beliefs that are part of my religion and not his?” Do you believe our Church teaches Truth? Yes. And no…he’s not “suffering.”