Will Catholics who use artificial birth control go to Hell? ---POLL!

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pittsburghjeff:
Perhaps I could have been more clear in my language but I do not retract the word “coward”.
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In that case, I submit that you are attributing the motive of fear to our leaders when you do not know that to be their motive. Moreover, you are deliberately choosing to use some of the least charitable phrasing available to you. Keeping in mind that the duties inherent in your position in the Church normally do not include the public correction of our leaders, might you restrict your complaints to their actions, and couch your comments with the qualifying “With all due respect”?
 
I voted ‘No’ because I believe that some women cannot cope with too many children and they know it. I think it should be left up to peoples’ conscience. It is certainly better to use prevention than to have an abortion. In fact I argue that the existence of contraceptives should make abortion all the more intolerable.

Sometimes the situation makes laws inapplicable. Such as where there is a danger of catching Aids from your spouse. This is why some prominent Christian leaders like Anglican Archbishop(?) or Bishop Desmond Tutu criticizes the Catholic Church for causing the death toll from Aids to rise in Africa.

I think people have a conscience and know when they are being selfish and also know when the other choices are worse in effect.
 
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BLB_Oregon:
In that case, I submit that you are attributing the motive of fear to our leaders when you do not know that to be their motive. Moreover, you are deliberately choosing to use some of the least charitable phrasing available to you. Keeping in mind that the duties inherent in your position in the Church normally do not include the public correction of our leaders, might you restrict your complaints to their actions, and couch your comments with the qualifying “With all due respect”?
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With all due respect, they are cowards. Is that better?

They are cowering from pressure from the left to be quiet on contraception. Since it is pressure from the laity that keeps them quiet, it would be quite a shame if they didn’t get (name removed by moderator)ut from orthodox laypeople to balance out the left. Remember, sometimes renewal from the Church can start with the laity. And sometimes our leaders need corrected.

With polls showing well over 90% of Catholics dissenting from the Church’s teaching on contraception, I think I am on firm ground when I say that they are not emphasizing the teaching or explaining it to people. A lot of people are so confused that they are taking the position of the previous post by Laywoman - that contraception is a matter of conscience.

Now, that all being said. I am not being critical of all or even most of the Bishops and priests. All I have said is that most of the ones who do not speak out do not because they are cowards. And my comments were in response to a specific question someone posted about why they do not speak out.

Can I find a nicer word than coward to use? Probably. Can I find a more accurate word? No - that is why I chose it to begin with.

You explain to me why someone in charge of souls would not bother to mention a sin that over 90% of his flock are committing.
 
I hate polls like this… I am becoming more and more…anti-poll…although, I keep voting too…:whistle: My answer…No one knows…Only God does… I just don’t know how people get off thinking they are allowed to be the judges…It is so irritating to me…

😦 Tanya
 
Whoops…forgot to mention… I don’t believe in artificial BC either… It is wrong, but I am not going to tell someone they are going to hell for using it…

Me…
 
I completely agree with PittsburghJeff. He isn’t attacking the office of the priesthood, but a few of the men who perhaps don’t hold to what their office calls them to do–shepherd souls to heaven.

My husband and I both lament the unfortunate trend of “some” priests at the pulpit these days–there are so many key issues they could speak out against, the lambs of their flocks being so enmeshed by the slavery of very common sin–and very misunderstood doctrine. We often wonder, to each other, why they just don’t address it. The priests we know who DO bring up sensitive topics (birth control, sexual morality, abortion, euthanasia, modesty, gluttony, materialism, etc.) get very hateful letters from parishioners who disagree with feeling “judged” from the pulpit and the priest’s message, if they happen to disagree. This has been true in the five different parishes I’ve belonged to over my 24 years of living.

The reality is that America is digging itself into a hole we won’t get out of. (Anyone read “Hope of the Wicked”?) We need more leadership from bishops and a universal committment from our priests to orthodoxy.

One priest, at a retreat I attended, said it well:

“If you don’t like the doctrine I preach, fine. But I preach it because I don’t want to be responsible for helping to send YOUR soul to hell.” His message was clear, that he accepted his personal responsibility to impart the truth and inspire others to live it.

Pray for the holiness of our bishops, priests and fellow Catholics. Temptation strikes hardest at the souls who have the ability to affect the most amount of people. Sometimes the “sin of lukewarmness” can have a most dreadful effect.
 
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pittsburghjeff:
With all due respect, they are cowards. Is that better?
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My, my, but you will not hear any correction tonight. I think you do get my point, though. As you are not under my direction, I will leave it at that.
 
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laywoman:
I voted ‘No’ because I believe that some women cannot cope with too many children and they know it. I think it should be left up to peoples’ conscience. It is certainly better to use prevention than to have an abortion. In fact I argue that the existence of contraceptives should make abortion all the more intolerable.

Sometimes the situation makes laws inapplicable. Such as where there is a danger of catching Aids from your spouse. This is why some prominent Christian leaders like Anglican Archbishop(?) or Bishop Desmond Tutu criticizes the Catholic Church for causing the death toll from Aids to rise in Africa.

I think people have a conscience and know when they are being selfish and also know when the other choices are worse in effect.
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How would a woman know when the chemicals acted as a contraceptive or an abortifacient?
 
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AHMFan:
I hate polls like this… I am becoming more and more…anti-poll…although, I keep voting too…:whistle: My answer…No one knows…Only God does… I just don’t know how people get off thinking they are allowed to be the judges…It is so irritating to me…

😦 Tanya
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I get so irritated when people accuse others of being judges or judgemental when they attempt to explain or correct someone. That is not being judgemental. Only God can and will judge their salvation. If you steal something and I point out you are a thief, it is a fact not a judgement. Whether you are worthy of heaven I cannot say as only God knows whether you have confessed and are contrite.
 
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buffalo:
I get so irritated when people accuse others of being judges or judgemental when they attempt to explain or correct someone. That is not being judgemental. Only God can and will judge their salvation. If you steal something and I point out you are a thief, it is a fact not a judgement. Whether you are worthy of heaven I cannot say as only God knows whether you have confessed and are contrite.
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:whacky:

The poll was specifically asking about salvation.

Tanya’s response was not confined to earthly judgment but was in response to the poll question which was on eternal judgement (unlike your accusation). She was talking about the idea that someone could determine another’s eternal state, not if they correct someone in sin.

It is sort of ironic that you would get irritated over someone getting irritated about something other then what you are irritated at them for.

-D
 
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laywoman:
I voted ‘No’ because I believe that some women cannot cope with too many children and they know it. I think it should be left up to peoples’ conscience. It is certainly better to use prevention than to have an abortion. In fact I argue that the existence of contraceptives should make abortion all the more intolerable.

Sometimes the situation makes laws inapplicable. Such as where there is a danger of catching Aids from your spouse. This is why some prominent Christian leaders like Anglican Archbishop(?) or Bishop Desmond Tutu criticizes the Catholic Church for causing the death toll from Aids to rise in Africa.

I think people have a conscience and know when they are being selfish and also know when the other choices are worse in effect.
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Situational ethics and morality; relativism; well formed conscience; absolutes; intinsic evil; fear of God; don’t ask, don’t tell; does choosing to remain ignorant of moral truths incur culpability for one’s sinful actions/choices; embracing the Cross of Christ; dying to self; eternal perspective; seek first the kingdom…a few of my thoughts in reading the above post.
 
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laywoman:
I voted ‘No’ because I believe that some women cannot cope with too many children and they know it. I think it should be left up to peoples’ conscience. It is certainly better to use prevention than to have an abortion. In fact I argue that the existence of contraceptives should make abortion all the more intolerable.
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You know what? If people had well formed consciences then EVERYTHING could be left up to them, but since they don’t it is impossible to think that all would be right with the world if people just did what they think best.

I wonder if a child molester’s consciences bothers him. We know there are many people who think it is a “right” to murder their unborn children.

-D
 
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WhiteDove:
I hear that most Catholic couples use artificial birth control and still take communion. If they die unrepentant, will they go to Hell? 🙂
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This is an issue that does not get aired enough. We know we can’t judge another’s soul. We can’t know who is going to heaven or hell, except those canonized.

We do know that every Catholic is under a serious obligation to learn their faith and form their conscience correctly. CCC#s 1740 and 1741. We know birth control is intrinsically evil. It may never be done for any reason or any time.

We know that Bishops and priests do not teach about this truth often. We know some clerics spread error and teach one may use birth control.

We know there is no such thing as a sacramernt of ignorance. Just because Fr. X said you go do it, does not get you off the hook, Just because Fr. X never talked about it does not get you off the hook.

We are talking about a basic tenet of the faith. We live in a society where everyone knows the Church teaches against it. We each are given many talents we are responsible for. We know sports statistics, we know about celebrities, yet we do not take the time to learn our faith.

In short, my opinion is many Catholics are gulity of the grave sin of contraception, and in most cases it is a mortal sin.
 
JGC said:
:o 😦

I find it sad you would expect to recieve any such posts. Although having participated on these boards for a short time, my expereince is that you are probably right (although these guys are in a minority:) )
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Yes, I find it sad too. But frankly, I’ve been on these boards long enough to know that some people don’t hesitate to dole out insults and I don’t want to ever be on the receiving end of it. This is a Catholic forum and I intend to conduct myself in such a manner. I don’t like to see my fellow Catholics slinging mud at each other. A good, healthy debate is one thing, but to judge, insult and give sarcastic remarks to someone else’s post is not something I want to engage in.

That said, I think there are a lot of helpful resources that people are mentioning and I definitely plan to look into them. It’s an interesting question, and while, no, none of us can ever know the status of someone else’s salvation, it definitely gives us food for thought and prompts us to examine our own lives. (At least this is what these type of questions do for me.)

I am thankful for this board and will be praying for all of my fellow forum members today.
God Bless! 🙂
 
The poll was specifically asking about salvation.

Tanya’s response was not confined to earthly judgment but was in response to the poll question which was on eternal judgement (unlike your accusation). She was talking about the idea that someone could determine another’s eternal state, not if they correct someone in sin.

It is sort of ironic that you would get irritated over someone getting irritated about something other then what you are irritated at them for.

-D
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:blessyou: Darcee… It’s nice to know someone who knows me a little better, than to just jump to conclusions and accuse one of saying something totally off subject IMO… :tiphat:
 
The poll was specifically asking about salvation.

Tanya’s response was not confined to earthly judgment but was in response to the poll question which was on eternal judgement (unlike your accusation). She was talking about the idea that someone could determine another’s eternal state, not if they correct someone in sin.

It is sort of ironic that you would get irritated over someone getting irritated about something other then what you are irritated at them for.

-D
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??? I thought I answered it. What was my accusation? I agreed no one but God could judge. I was irritated in general, because I hear so much of this “Don’t judge me stuff”.
 
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Forgiven:
This entire thread is absolutely unbelievable. Ugh.
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Really? It makes a great point. Birth control is evil. Most Catholics use it and claim they are not in mortal sin. Bishops and priests never speak about it. As Christ said…the road to hell is easy and the gate wide…many will pass.
 
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thechrismyster:
hmmm, i have a question, if a person dies in a state of mortal sin they go to hell, but if their last breathe is repentance, they are forgiven.
doesn’t that negate the effect of confession?? that seems to tell me that mortal sins are forgiven just by asking for forgiveness.
i thought mortal sins MUST be confessed.
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Ah. But confession is the ordinary means of forgiveness. Jesus promised the thief on the cross at his side “paradise.” (OK, maybe that wasn’t heaven, but it sure wasn’t Hell.) God is not circumscribed even by himself. We have the assurance of forgiveness through the Church but his mercy is wide.
 
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