Will I go to Hell

[benedictus2]

You don’t believe that the bible is the Word of God? What do you believe - it’s a fairy tale? I’ve actually been told that by a Catholic priest. Sad, wouldn’t you agree?. If it weren’t the word of God, than what are we doing on this forum arguing anything?

Nice try at evasion I did not say that. My question is to you HOW do you know it is indeed the word of God. Why do YOU believe it is the Word of God?

Would really appreciate an answer on that one. No one seems to be able to answer that. I have posted that question on several threads. Maybe you will break the drought.

How do I know the bible is the word of God? To me this statement is enough to verify that the Bible (Scripture) is the authority over all of us. There is no book other book in this world that is God-breathed. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

BUT the Scripture being referred to there is the Old Testament only. The NT (2Timothy included) was not considered scripture then. 2 Timothy is not claiming that 2 Tim itself is God-breathed. So back to square one. How do you know that the Bible is indeed the Word of God.

Did I say Mary wasn’t blessed? I don’t believe so. I don’t pray to her. I pray to the Lord. I’m not sure I can find in the bible that it says, pray to Mary or even venerate her.

You know what, when we honor Mary we are really only imitating Jesus. Jesus fulfilled the commandment perfectly. The 4th is to honor your father and your mother. In Hebrew, the word use is Kovoda, which mean to glorify. So Jesus glorified His own mother. By honoring her, we follow in the Lord’s footstep. He did say come follow me.
’

I did not yet read your article, but I will. I appreciate you providing me with the link.

I hope you will. It is very informative.

How do I know the Lord hears my prayers and those I pray with? Without even referencing the bible - my prayers have been answered. I was partially blind in one eye and my vision was restored. Instantly. Only one example.

Well how do we know that Mary is indeed interceding for us? By the inumerable miracles that have happened because of her intercession. Real miracles. Ones that science cannot explain. So if you are using yourself as an example that God hears your prayer, millions of people have stories similar to (no greater than) yours. And they attribute this to Mary’s intercession.

The virgin Mary doesn’t have to lead me closer to the Father.

She doesn’t HAVE TO but she does any way. Because she loves you just as much she loves us Catholics. She is always working to bring her children back to her Son’s Church and thus ever closer to Him.

I am a sucker for conversion stories and so many of them speak of her role in their conversion. AS a matter of fact, many here at CAF will attest to that.

She doesn’t have the capability to do that. And I am close to the Lord and pray that he draws me nearer to him everyday. I pray the same for you.

I am a sucker for conversion stories and so many of them speak of her role in their conversion. AS a matter of fact, many here at CAF will attest to that.

On of the most amazing conversion story I have heard was that of Alphonse Ratisbone. He was converted in around 15 mins. One moment he was atheist, 15 mins later he was a believer completely converted to the Faith.

Here is a link to his conversion story:

http://www.marysource.com/articles/alphonse_ratisbonne.htm

I do hope you take the time to read it. It really is worth it.

And thanks for your prayer that I draw closer to Christ. I pray that every day.

 

[benedictus2]

Amen.

Seek the Truth whereever it lead you. Do no be afraid of it.

 

[benedictus2]

I appreciate your example, but it doesn’t work for me. Because I know I can go directly to my earthly father and ask the same question. Asking my mother would not change the outcome. And I mean that spiritually too.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Actually. It does. You said so in your example about the prayer of a just man remember? What you yourself may not merit, a just man can merit for you .

That is why we send emisaries. We send the ones that are in good standing because we feel they will be better received. It is true God hears our prayers all the same. But the Bible says pray for one another. Well, the saints and out Blessed Mother is still very much part of the Church. That is why we have the communion saints.

They are our brothers and sister who have gone ahead of us.

St Therese said before she died: I will spend my heaven doing good on earth. And boy did she keep that promise.

When after her death miracles started happening they started collecting these miracle stories, stories of prayers heard and granted. These are called the flowers of St Therese. They had to stop in the end becuase there was just too many of them.

 

[benedictus2]

Hi there. I’m sorry if that is insulting to you. I’m telling you what I see in the Catholic churches I’ve been to and have been told to do when I was a Catholic.

When you were Catholic did you even bother to find out what the Catholic Church really believed? Because it seems not by the terrribly erroneous perception you have formed.

I have just finished reading a book called Prodigal Daughters. These are stories of women who left the Church and came back home.

One of them regarded herself as Catholic but was actually not. When she told her mom that she was considerig leaving the Church, her mom told her: “before you leave, find out first what it is you are leaving”. Her mom gave her Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism. A few pages later the contest was over.

You can be better informed if you really try. If you really honestly seek the truth. There is so much resourch available out there, even just on the web.

Scott Hahn, another convert said to our Lord to seek the truth and follow the truth wherever it may lead him. The truth lead him to the Catholic Church. He is like a modern day St Paul. From vehemently hating Catholicism he is now one of the best Catholic apologists. He even started the St Paul Centre for Biblical Theology.
If you want to study scripture indepth, here is a link to his webiste
http://www.salvationhistory.com/

 

[benedictus2]

I am curious about something. Have you never seen a person in your church praying to a statue or worshipping it?

No. I have seen people talking to what the statue represents.

Have you seen people talk to pictures of their loved ones especially when the loved one has just passed away? It is ihe same thing with the statues and images.

You see we are material beings. These material things (statues, icons,etc) help focus our prayer. When I talk to our Lady I look at her statue but it is not the statue I am addressing it is her.

Protestants completely miss the whole point of the command against idolatry. Pagans did worship idols. They really believed that these idols of clay they made are the gods and goddesses themselves. Prohibition of idolatry is because all adoration and worhip should only be given to God.

Honoring the saints in no way detract from the woship given to God.

We know these statues are not Mary or the saints, we know that these statues are not God.

It seems to me that within the Catholic community, as with other religions, there are different beliefs.

Not quite. There is only one belief, but because of ill education, people tend to give their own spin sometimes. What is needed is better education, better catechism.

 

[karoleck]

Part quotations are always dangereous,the first part may I remind anyone reading this post was to "Go out to all the nations and spread The Good News"end of quote the second part was left out! It follows "He who is Believes and is Baptised will be saved,he who does not believe will be condemned"This should have been in the Thread.
So from the very beginning of this,arguements have been re-railed-the is off the tracks.So the question is what to believe,who has been given the authority to carry out Christs’mandate and then to which Church does a person belong to,by the sacrament of Baptism.I have been having a lively private debate with a christian pastor,I was very impressed by his knowledge of Catholic History and even more by his insistance on false Teachings!So the conclusion “Will I go to Hell”,if you know and understand Christs’ call and teachings,refusing to believe and be baptised,then certainly you have made your choice of eternal damnation,though I would hope and pray that your thread is only a retorical one!( My pastor friend really believes erroneously,teachings of the Catholic Church that it does not hold!!)A good Christian pastor all the same,that is my impression from what he wrote.God Bless him.

Oh,my Jesus, forgive us our sins,save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven,escpecially those most in need of your mercy.Amen

 

[karoleck]

Here is a sample of my private messages to a pastor-in resoect to privacy I do not include
his posts to me.
]http://www.voxpopuli.org/zenit.php
May The Mother of The Eternal Priest and Victim ask her Son Jesus to enlighten you.
Dear Parstor,I too enjoy your postings ,mainly for a couple of reasons.(1) You are well informed on a lot of what the Catholic Church teaches-this impresses me.(you also believe a lot what Holy Mother The Church does not teach!!)The scribes were fully versed in scripture and the Law (pharisees) but still did not know the Messiah.
(2)you are a fully blown Protestant,in the best sense of the word,though you have not informed me which of the 26000 registered christian churches,other than The Catholic Church,which you grace its’pulpit,pew or robes.What makes you any different to these separated churches,not in full communion with The One,Holy,Catholic and Apostolic Church started by Christ:with a living Tradition tracing back to the Apostolic time?After all, they all claim ,what you claim with small variations,but all agreeing that The Catholic Church got it wrong for 2000 years-wonderfull unity in negative beliefs!!
(3) Actually you have been very placid so far,a true Protestant would have been calling The Holy Father-a whore of Babylon-the scarlet woman etc.all those charming invectives describing the Successor to St.Peter!.
(4)being a private thread,there are no egos that we need to display-to impress anyone else.(grateful for your time)Have you ever wondered why it is always the Catholic Church that has been attacked for over 2000years-does it not set off alarm bells in that great brain of yours?No one kicks a dead dog!! Though The Catholic Church is always welcoming ,wagging its’ tail especially to prodigal sons of separated christians!(Have you ever watched EWTN Markus Grodi an ex pastor"Coming Home Series"Google it.
My first link on top takes you to the site of a new couple of future Dogmatic Teachings that The Holy Father,in union with the Bishops around the world will proclaim,I pray soon.It is the truth that Mary is The Co-redemptrix,Advocate and Mediatrix of all graces.I have been one of the 4000000 peoples around the world who have asked that this be confirmed ,as what catholics always have believed of Mary.It will be something one must believe as a catholic, in other words.You will then please God, have another date to scratch on your wall!I do hope that you will be a Catholic by then and share this final dogma within our communion.!! It will be worthwhile to visit this web site, as you will have more invectives and reasons to hate "the whore of babylon"and confirm you in your errors,-protestants have such wonderful sayings.don’t you think?You are a “Bible Christian” so I assume you do not come from this school,basically the “Sola Scriptura” of their beliefs is to hate the Catholic Church and all that it believes and Teaches-The Majesterium-that makes them very righteous before God-not unsimilar to Saul of old!

post script-I told pastor that protestants stole our family album-the Bible!He said what about the old testament?

You mentioned The Old Testament-I should imagine a devout Jew would say the yes, we have stolen it from them.But for us(sorry I include you in this!!) ,it is our Family Heirloom that we have inherited ,as being proper to us as Gods’ new chosen people, under the new dispensation.That is why we(Catholics)-you can be included if you wish–can use the Book of Maccabees 2 12;42-45 I will not quote it to you ,as you will be ready to refute them, even though you acknowledge that they exist I am sure–dangerous ground you tread on there–go tiger!,though it fully supports the doctrine of Purgatory ,so you would!–The ex catholic priest Luther, when re writing the stolen family Bible,had as HIS Dogma- called predestination ,this passage contradicted this teaching of his , so he just left Maccabees out–how convenient-and still to this day his followers of His Dogma, pretent that the Scripture of the Two Books of the old testament does not exist-(ask any devout Jew if this is included in his patronymic-blast your congregation with this word --scolls) Are you an ex catholic priest Dogma believer of false predestination??Jesus came to forefill all the old testament,including The Books of Maccabees.Now can you see why going toe to toe with scriptural passages is useless with you, because we adhere to different Bibles-your ancestors tampered with it-totally not your fault,but sometimes it is good to acknowledge GHOSTS in your closets!!

 

[benedictus2]

Good I’m glad your saying we might be saved (I was concerned for a second). Isn’t that the Goal anyway? To be saved? Does it matter if I’m in your church, if I’m still saved by the belief and acceptance of Christ Jesus as my savior? You say the Catholic Church is the one true Church, yet I may and can still be saved through the Grace of God? If I’m saved by accepting Christ as my Lord and savior, by the great Grace of God my Father, then why keep throwing I’m not a member of the one true church in mine and everyones face? Does it make sense? My goal is to get saved thru Christ Jesus, by the grace of God. If I got it, I got it. God only knows, not the humans who run the Catholic Church or any Christian church who claims exclusive rights as the one true church. You make it sound like a college fraternity. Even if I’m not in your Church, I’m with the love/grace that God extended to me, thru my accepting of Jesus as my savior. Do I need anything else?

Here’s a second answer as well to that question.

When the Catholic Church says that not only Catholics will be saved, it does not only mean “but also protestants”. It means "But also Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims, etc, etc.

Following your line of questiong. I ask you this: “If this is the case WHY BOTHER BEING CHRISTIAN AT ALL?”

 

[elvisman]

Elvisman who in the ---- do you think you are by saying "apparently you and Rev. Kevin suffer from the same reading comprehension deficiency. You are nothing but a loud mouth, smart— who thinks his —don’t stink. Your are the ruddest person I have ever incountered in my life. I’m sick of the way you treat others as well as me. Keep me out of your posts and if you have anything to say to me, address to me. GOT IT!!!

Calm down. There are decorum rules here on the forums and this sort of post is ****not **welcome.

---

If I have angered you it’s because you are apparently up against a wall with your positions. Don’t blame me for that – blame your own apparent spiritual pride.

---

**I mentioned you in my post to ****Richard **because you also disregarded my posts and replied as if I never answered your points. This is a tactic used by people who have nothing left to say.

 

[rev_kevin]

Calm** down. There are decorum rules here on the forums and this sort of post is ****not **welcome.

---

If I have angered you it’s because you are apparently up against a wall with your positions. Don’t blame me for that – blame your own apparent spiritual pride.

---

**I mentioned you in my post to ****Richard **because you also disregarded my posts and replied as if I never answered your points. This is a tactic used by people who have nothing left to say.

I did not disregard your posts. Remember the back and forth we had. You want me to bow down to you and say “Yes elvisman you are correct and I’m wrong” but that ain’t going to happen. I understood what you wrote and I have no problelm compehending. When someone disagrees with you you start the name calling and belittling. You didn’t have me up against no wall, I just go sick of you and your rudeness to others.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I did not disregard your posts. Remember the back and forth we had. You want me to bow down to you and say “Yes elvisman you are correct and I’m wrong” but that ain’t going to happen. I understood what you wrote and I have no problelm compehending. When someone disagrees with you you start the name calling and belittling. You didn’t have me up against no wall, I just go sick of you and your rudeness to others.

rev, Did you stop to think we may have some thing in Catholicism that you do not understand. and you are wrong,I,m not saying you are wrong but you being a Baptist and we being Cathloic you may need to think about it
On another matter why do you spell rev in small letters and not capps,well have a great Christmas and remember Jesus love You

 

[Onedayatatime]

I very much want to quit the catholic church and become an
Assembly of God member. Am i doomed for hell?

I don’t fit in with the CC, there is no enthusiasm there.

I have just come back from a 3 day retreat called a Cursillo. I would recommend that you take a retreat such as this and then see if you really want to leave. You will be renewed, refreshed and it certainly will be intense. Check with you local priest or diocese to find out who is running them.

 

[rev_kevin]

rev, Did you stop to think we may have some thing in Catholicism that you do not understand. and you are wrong,I,m not saying you are wrong but you being a Baptist and we being Cathloic you may need to think about it
On another matter why do you spell rev in small letters and not capps,well have a great Christmas and remember Jesus love You

Yes I have have stopped to think about it. Everything is possible. It may also be possible I’m right and your aren’t. I’m sure I don’t understand everything about Catholicism, even when explained. If it just don’t seem right to me I disagree until I fully understand what is being said then I make my mind up eather way. I have disagree in the past and then when explained and I think about it I then said I agree. I’m sure we went through that.
As far a Rev. no special reason just like my name is not in caps. There is no special reason I just put it in that way.

 

[rev_kevin]

I have been lurking and reading for quite sometime on this forum and actually this is my very first post.

Rev, I am very shocked by your post above. There is no reason to make an attempt to put someone down by using dashes to imply swear words. If that’s what you are reducing yourself to then maybe you need to pull out of this conversation along with a few others that are really only here to insult.

Honestly, there is much to learn from most everyone here and then-----there are others.

Elvisman: If this thread is indicative of the lame questions, accusations, and misinformation concerning Catholism that has been endured over the last five years that you have been on this forum then I understand perfectly why you use red and blue to prove your points. :

I have pulled out a several days ago. Now like you I was lurking and reading when I read this from elvisman maybe you should mind your own business, {this was to a trial member, good first impression} calling people ignorant because you disagree with him, told me to mind my own business because I told him he was out of line with the trial member, then the straw that broke the camels back was when he said this, Apperently you and rev kevin suffer from the same reading comprehension defficiency. No I’m just to lay down and take insults from this person. I don’t think so. But did a Catholic say he was wrong. No. Seems its ok for ya’ll to be rude to non-Catholics but heaven for bid we say something rude in our defence. Ya’ll come out in force backing the Catholic up all the way. Yes I lost it but I’m human.

 

[elvisman]

I did not disregard your posts. Remember the back and forth we had. You want me to bow down to you and say “Yes elvisman you are correct and I’m wrong” but that ain’t going to happen. I understood what you wrote and I have no problelm compehending. When someone disagrees with you you start the name calling and belittling. You didn’t have me up against no wall, I just go sick of you and your rudeness to others.

No - all I want is a civil conversation - but one that is followed accordingly.

In the discourse we has several posts back - your replies we like those of somebody who never read mine and just shot from the hip. You changed your position several times as well. Either that or you have a very peculiar way of getting your point accross and aren’t very adept at doing so.

This is not an insult - just an observation, so don’t fly off the handle again with your “self censored expletives”.

 

[rev_kevin]

No - all I want is a civil conversation - but one that is followed accordingly.

In the discourse we has several posts back - your replies we like those of somebody who never read mine and just shot from the hip. You changed your position several times as well. Either that or you have a very peculiar way of getting your point accross and aren’t very adept at doing so.

This is not an insult - just an observation, so don’t fly off the handle again with your “self censored expletives”.

What ever you say my lord

 

[benedictus2]

Yes I have have stopped to think about it. Everything is possible. It may also be possible I’m right and your aren’t. I’m sure I don’t understand everything about Catholicism, even when explained. If it just don’t seem right to me I disagree until I fully understand what is being said then I make my mind up eather way.

I think when it comes to doctrine it is best to take it a little bit at a time.

I am really interested on your answer to the question I posed to you regarding baptism.

Which one is really correct , infant, adult only or no baptism at all?

Doesn’t this go to show that scripture is not so plain that every Tom, Dick and Harry can explain it?

In His plan of salvtion, does God really want us to muddle in uncertainty?

If we don’t really know which is the right interpretation, how do we even know that we are following God at all?

Questions like this go to the very heart of Protestant belief-: Sola Scriptura.

Even if you don’t answer that I hope you give these questions a good pondering.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

All things are mix up today, I never has a post that was started with “people like You” So please take me off your list also .

Yes Bill, I know that - what I was saying was that I incorrectly responded to you.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

I just wanted to say to folks in this particular thread that I haven’t been on it in a few days…there may be some questions or comments that I didn’t respond to, not because I’m ignoring you, but just because this particular thread is so heated that I personally don’t see the reason to continue here. This will be a non-stop “he-said / she-said” thing and that’s not helpful to anyone.

Also, I don’t see the benefit of me continuing to be a part of this thread since I my original interest of seeing an answer to the original posted question of “Will I go to Hell.”

I’m not saying your personal conversations aren’t helpful to you or whoever you’re making a point with - my opinion is this thread - for me is done.

Enjoy your time here - see you in another posting.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I just wanted to say to folks in this particular thread that I haven’t been on it in a few days…there may be some questions or comments that I didn’t respond to, not because I’m ignoring you, but just because this particular thread is so heated that I personally don’t see the reason to continue here. This will be a non-stop “he-said / she-said” thing and that’s not helpful to anyone.

Also, I don’t see the benefit of me continuing to be a part of this thread since I my original interest of seeing an answer to the original posted question of “Will I go to Hell.”

I’m not saying your personal conversations aren’t helpful to you or whoever you’re making a point with - my opinion is this thread - for me is done.

Enjoy your time here - see you in another posting.

Jars, Please try to remember this form has many diff faith and all are not go to agree on all things so yes we do get in some bad debates but you here to get both sides, and you can always hit the ignort button and claim down,I know I .v learn a lot here,Stay claim,Stay here and enjoy your self,dont run at the first sign of trouble