Will Jesus judge people into heaven (through Him) or Hell based on conduct?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steven_Merten
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Steven_Merten

Guest
NAB JOH 5:27

"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."
NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)

. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12

“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”
NAB MAT 25:31

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 
NAB JOH 12:44

Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.”
NAB DEU 30:15 The Choice before Israel.

"Here then, I have today set before you life and prosperity, death and doom. If you obey the commandments of the LORD, your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving him, and walking in his ways, and keeping his commandments, statutes and decrees, you will live

**NAB MAT **19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
NAB SIR 15:11 Man’s Free Will.

Say not: “It was God’s doing that I fell away”; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: “It was he who set me astray”; for he has no need of wicked man. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.
NAB JOH 15:10

"You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and **live **in his love."
**NAB MAT **7:12

Enter through the narrow gate. The gate that leads to damnation is wide, the road is clear, and many choose to travel it. But how narrow is the gate that leads to life, how rough the road, and how few there are who find it!"

“Be on your guard against false prophets, who come to you in sheeps’ clothing but underneath are wolves on the prowl. You will know them by their deeds. Do you ever pick grapes from thronbushes, or figs from prickly plants? Never! Any sound tree bears good fruit, while a decayed tree bears bad fruit. A sound tree cannot bear bad fruit any more than a decayed tree can bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. You can tell a tree by its fruit. None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? Have we not exorcised demons by its power? Did we not do many miracles in your name as well?” They I will declare to them solemnly, “I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!”
 
**NAB MAT **5:20

I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven . "You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, 'You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.
NAB LUK 13:23

“Lord, will only a few people be saved?” He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door, then will you stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ He will say to you in reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ And you will say, ‘We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets.’ Then he will say to you, ‘I do not know where (you) are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers!’ And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom** of God and you yourselves cast out.**
**NAB MAT **18:21

’You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?’ Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart."
**NAB MAT 13:47-50 **

The reign of God is also like a dragnet thrown into the lake, which collected all sorts of things. When it was full they hauled it ashore and sat down to put what was worthwhile into containers. What was useless they threw away. That is how it will be at the end of the world. Angels will go out and separate the wicked from the just and hurl the wicked into the fiery furnace, where they will wail and grind their teeth.
 
LUK 16:19 The Rich Man and Lazarus

“There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here,** whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours**.’ He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”
 
I think it’s a resounding yes, based on all the verses thus here presented. Our judgment would be based on our works, not by faith alone.
 
I vote “sort-of”.

We’re judged on intent as well as works. We’re all sinners, so we’ll never be deserving of Heaven, but if we’re honestly trying, God knows that. He can see things inside of us that even we can’t see!

So be on your best behavior! 😃
 
I too would go with “sort of”, like MariaGorettiGrl. An atheist could do all sorts of nice things and be a basically nice person, but will that get that person into heaven? I don’t think so. Basically that would be Pelagianism.
 
Yes, we will be judged by our conduct.

But the bigger question is : “How” can I “always behave” ?

We “behave” because “we believe”, therefore we behave.

The key is our faith. Jesus say “Let it happen to you according to your faith”.

I would put it more in secular term : we do what we believe. If we are in fear, we will follow that fear. If we worry we will conduct ourselves according to it. But when we believe that God is faithful no matter what, then we can overcome our fear and worries, therefore we will be able to conduct ourselves according to God’s will and not according to our fleshly will. Because faith brings forth God’s power, and the person who follow this faith will not trust in “own strenghth” but God’s.

In this way, God free us from our fear : by making us sons and daughters of His, so that we are not to be enslaved by “terrors” of Sin and death anymore.
 
The answer to the original question, “Will Jesus consign us to Heaven or Hell based on our conduct?,” is, “Yes and no.”

Bad conduct is merely the actualized form of a rebellious heart. A rebellious heart is an unactualized form of bad conduct, and IS “bad conduct.” The problem is not God’s procedures, but the weakness of human words. Fundamentally, there is no clear philosophical distinction between intent and works. The dichotomy forced by the parameters of the question is an illusion.
 
40.png
francisca:
Yes, we will be judged by our conduct.

But the bigger question is : “How” can I “always behave” ?

We “behave” because “we believe”, therefore we behave.

The key is our faith. Jesus say “Let it happen to you according to your faith”.

I would put it more in secular term : we do what we believe. If we are in fear, we will follow that fear. If we worry we will conduct ourselves according to it. But when we believe that God is faithful no matter what, then we can overcome our fear and worries, therefore we will be able to conduct ourselves according to God’s will and not according to our fleshly will. Because faith brings forth God’s power, and the person who follow this faith will not trust in “own strenghth” but God’s.

In this way, God free us from our fear : by making us sons and daughters of His, so that we are not to be enslaved by “terrors” of Sin and death anymore.
Click to expand...
Hello francisca,

Is faith sepperated from works or are faith and obedience one in the same. Faith is expressed through our works. When Jesus judges us on our works of obedience to the will of God He is judging us according to our faith.

John the Baptist is filled with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit through John the Baptist preaches a way of holiness to the people. Jesus tells us that those who put faith and believe in John the Baptist by doing the works he calls for are entering into heaven.

Jesus tells us that those who hear His words and do not keep them, the word will condemn on the last day. Jesus tells us that He knows that God’s commandments mean eternal life.

To do what Jesus tells you to do is to put faith and belief in Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit.

NAB MAT 21:28 Parable of the Two Sons.

“What do you think of this case? There was a man who had two sons. He approached the elder and said, ‘Son, go out and work in the vineyard today.’ The son replied, ‘I am on my way, sir’ ; but he never went. Then the man came to his second son and said the same thing. This son said in reply, ‘No, I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. Which of the two did what the father wanted?” They said, “The second.” Jesus said to them, “I assure you that tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you. When John came preaching a way of holiness, you put no faith in him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did believe in him. Yet even when you saw that, you did not repent and believe in him.”

NAB JOH 12:44

Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.”
 
I thought it was an either/or sort of question… so I think I voted wrong.

I believe we are justified through our faith in Jesus’ redemptive work on the cross. It is 100% grace. I also believe we show we have faith by being obedient. Is this possible always? No… we are sinners and we fall short over & over again. But if we are sorry… God is merciful & He forgives us.
 
I say yes. I have never never got the impression that Jesus was a Faith Alone type of guy, in fact I see strong condemnation for those who dont keep on the good path and praise for those who do.
 
**I feel people fail to define what it means to have faith in Christ, once they understand that faith is not just a belief, but also an action, it is easy to interpret what The Lord requires from us Christians.Grace does save us, however it’s what we do with this grace/faith we are judged.

Sara**
 
sara888 said:
**I feel people fail to define what it means to have faith in Christ, once they understand that faith is not just a belief, but also an action, it is easy to interpret what The Lord requires from us Christians.Grace does save us, however it’s what we do with this grace/faith we are judged.

Sara**
Click to expand...

Very true–that’s why Protestant notion of faith falls apart because they often leave out the part about obedience.
 
Steven Merten:
Hello francisca,

Is faith sepperated from works or are faith and obedience one in the same.
Click to expand...
Hi Steve

Our faith and works become “one and the same” when we are fully and truly believe in Christ. In the begining stage we believe first then works will follow gradually. Day by day we are transformed, and this transformation may take a life time before one day we become truly like Jesus (in whom we put our faith-- thus we behave “exactly” according to our faith, thus “faith and works become one and the same when we become christlike”).
Faith is expressed through our works.
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly.

And what kind of faith to be expressed in our works?

Is it the kind of “faith” that says
Code: 
     "I have to do this" and "I have to do that"
or rather
Code: 
     "I CANNOT do this nor that, but Jesus can"
?

I will always behave when I confess that “I cannot, but Jesus can”. In the opposite scenario, I will depend on myself to fulfill the law. And in this latter scenario, the fulfillment of the law will depend on “own strength”. The two scenario may looks similar but they are totally different. One “depend on Jesus”, while the other is “cut off from Him, thus has fallen from Grace” because this kind of faith tries to be righteous out of “pure self effort” thus “without faith”

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
I would rather put it this way :
Click to expand...
If we fulfill the law we will live. But how do we fulfill the law?
Click to expand...
The answer again :
Click to expand...
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Click to expand...
Saved from what?
Click to expand...
From our bad habits, from addictions, from sicknesses, from unfaithuflness, from bitterness, from anger, from unforgiveness… etc.

Thus we “behave” when we believe that Jesus saves.
We believe far before we can behave.
Click to expand...
We are to focus on Jesus instead on ourselves, thus we say :
" Jesus does this and Jesus does that",
instead of
“We have to do this and that”
Click to expand...
This is how we change our ways, thus fulfill the commandments: by turning our focus away from self then turning it to Christ.
Click to expand...
Jesus tells us that those who hear His words and do not keep them, the word will condemn on the last day. Jesus tells us that He knows that God’s commandments mean eternal life.
Click to expand...
What do you think : should we study Jesus word, but will be condemned should we fail , or is it better not to know His word ?

I would say, we study His Word, and say

“keep me in Your presence o Lord, do not cast me away. I trust in your faithfulness to me. Remember your promises and your holy covenant fulfilled in Jesus blood ! I confess my transgressions, be gracious to me. Cleanse me and give me a pure heart”

instead of saying

“I have to keep the commandments”.
Click to expand...
 
**Fransica,

You believe, which leads you to do works, since works or laws, I will call them Gods Commandments do not save you according to your belief. However what if one believes, and forsakes the good fruits, they dont go to church , charity, communion, etc., etc,. Are they still saved.?

How did they get saved and then unsaved, ?

Your answer will be they never were saved which lacks logic.

Grace does save us, however we believers must be obedient to Gods requirements and request for this is how we are judged. If God has asked us to keep his commandments then if we truly believe in him and love him we obey and abide in him.

You cannot seperate the Faith/commandment keeping because Faith as you claim leads us to good works. So if you take away the works or deeds how are you remaining faithful.?

how does this not affect your salvation, if one just believes but does not follow.?

And if this person falls away or walks away from their faith can they come back.? God never leaves us, however we can walk away from him.

OSAS doctrine has only be around for approx. 500 years . It not only is unbiblical, it lacks common logic.

If you read Matt. Mark, Luke, John, and Revelations you shall see the many consequences for BELIEVERS who claim they have faith in Christ however do not abide in him or follow his laws.

OSAS believers only quote, Romans, Gal,
and one passage out of John. They also will quote lots of what Paul is professing, however they fail to show how Paul himself claimed he also could be a cast away if he did not abide in the Law.

OSAS theology is based off of one verse in John. "Believe and thou shalt be saved. " Yes I agree however you omit the rest of the Lords request as a faithful Christian. The couple of verses you show me with regard to Faith only, I can copy and paste at least 100 that will show you what one with Faith in God must do.

Who did Jesus write the commandments for anyway.?

Sara**
 
**
OSAS teacher’s

Jesus warned of these types of teachers.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Notice a false teacher/prophet looks just like a sheep. But his message is not from God. A false teacher preaches a broad way to heaven, and Jesus preaches a narrow way. **

Sadly Paul warned of a day when men would embrace such false teaching:

II Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine

. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
sara888 said:
Fransica,

You believe, which leads you to do works, since works or laws, I will call them Gods Commandments do not save you according to your belief. However what if one believes, and forsakes the good fruits, they dont go to church , charity, communion, etc., etc,. Are they still saved.?

How did they get saved and then unsaved, ?

**Your answer will be they never were saved which lacks logic. **

**Grace does save us, however we believers must be obedient to Gods requirements and request for this is how we are judged. If God has asked us to keep his commandments then if we truly believe in him and love him we obey and abide in him. **

You cannot seperate the Faith/commandment keeping because Faith as you claim leads us to good works. So if you take away the works or deeds how are you remaining faithful.?

**how does this not affect your salvation, if one just believes but does not follow.? **

And if this person falls away or walks away from their faith can they come back.? God never leaves us, however we can walk away from him.

**OSAS doctrine has only be around for approx. 500 years . It not only is unbiblical, it lacks common logic. **

If you read Matt. Mark, Luke, John, and Revelations you shall see the many consequences for BELIEVERS who claim they have faith in Christ however do not abide in him or follow his laws.

OSAS believers only quote, Romans, Gal,
and one passage out of John. They also will quote lots of what Paul is professing, however they fail to show how Paul himself claimed he also could be a cast away if he did not abide in the Law.

**OSAS theology is based off of one verse in John. "Believe and thou shalt be saved. " Yes I agree however you omit the rest of the Lords request as a faithful Christian. The couple of verses you show me with regard to Faith only, I can copy and paste at least 100 that will show you what one with Faith in God must do. **

Who did Jesus write the commandments for anyway.?

Sara
Click to expand...

OSAS is a broad-based doctrine, which is one of a constellation with others, such as election, justification, sanctification, Christian obedience, salvation by grace alone, the Sovereignty of God, Divine Foreknowledge, Divine Liberty, Divine Faithfulness - to name just a few.​

To change the metaphor - it is one of many tendrils in the single Vine which is Christ. The tendrils nourish and support each other, and are themselves supported and shone on by Christ, Who is both the Vine & the Sun of Righteousness, the Planting of the Father.

Of course obedience is required
Of course works are required

OSAS is not antinomianism, nor is it libertinism. It is a very strong spur to holiness of life, just as one might expect.

One of its great beauties is, that it leaves no place at all for human boasting, for all the glory goes to God. Man is not and cannot be his own saviour, nor is he partly responsible for His salvation, and God also partly responsible. On the contrary: there is no moment of salvation which is not wholly the work of God; though man might also have some part to play (“might”, because one can hardly suppose babies, for instance, are capable of exercising saving faith ) - but only because he is enabled to work by God’s grace, Who is his “environment”. God always works, totally in all His works, including the salvation of each and every one of the saved - man’s part is to respond in obedience and faith to the God Who is alone Gracious. Which he cannot do, but for the grace of God raising him from the death of sin and perdition in which he lies by the sin of Adam. And he cannot ever take even the first step in his salvation - for that too is the work of God. He is helpless & hopeless, but for the mercy of the Redeemer. ##
 
**Michael,

antinomian as ‘one who maintains that the moral law is not binding upon Christians under the law of grace.

OSAS teach and profess antinomianism

OSAS profess they should keep Gods Laws, however if they dont they are still saved by grace and or faith. This is just not biblical.

‘Do we then make void the law, through faith? God forbid!’** "

Sara
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top