Will non-Catholic Christians who reject Catholic teaching obtain salvation?

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Sir_Knight

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This has been an area of confusion for me. Past Popes have been quoted as saying that Salvation is only through that Catholic church. Not sure if those statements carried with them the official infallibility of the Pope or if they were just expressing a personal opinion. Recent Popes have stated that salvation is possible for those outside of the Catholic church. Again, I don’t know if these statements carry with them the official infallibility of the Pope or if they are just expressing a personal opinion.

I’m curious if there is an “official” poistion on this matter; and if so, what that position is taking into account that in Acts 2, Jesus clearly points out that He and His church are one. If you persecute His church, you are persecuting Christ. If you reject His church, you are rejecting Christ.

What happens with bible-only Christians who reject the teachings of the Catholic church claiming that those teachings are false and stating that they follow Jesus and don’t need to follow any “man made” church.

Have they, in effect, rejected Jesus by rejecting His church or is salvation still possible for them even though they are outside of the Catholic faith?
 
Thank you, Sir Knight. I’ve wondered this myself for a long time. I tend to believe so. If these people deliberately reject Christ’s Church-The Catholic Church, then they are rejecting Christ himself. Simple as that. No way around it. How much clearer could the passages in John be on the Eucharist? (Don’t they read ALL the passages in the bible?) Those that don’t have the body or blood, have no life in them. Right from Jesus’ own lips. Forget the Church for a minute. Yet, they reject Him, while claiming to be Christians. Of course, He could still let people be saved in the end, He can do whatever He wants. He wishes for all to be with Him in Heaven. Now that I have the fullness of faith-the REAL, ORIGINAL faith, I wouldn’t risk my soul on anything less. I think that I’ve read that those who are outside Holy Mother Church out of ignorance, are probably okay. The one’s who have known Holy Mother Church, and have fallen away and have rejected her, might want to get fire insurance.
 
Sounds like you are asking if you have to be Catholic to get to heaven. If so, I would say no.
 
Sir Knight:
This has been an area of confusion for me. Past Popes have been quoted as saying that Salvation is only through that Catholic church. Not sure if those statements carried with them the official infallibility of the Pope or if they were just expressing a personal opinion. Recent Popes have stated that salvation is possible for those outside of the Catholic church. Again, I don’t know if these statements carry with them the official infallibility of the Pope or if they are just expressing a personal opinion.

I’m curious if there is an “official” poistion on this matter; and if so, what that position is taking into account that in Acts 2, Jesus clearly points out that He and His church are one. If you persecute His church, you are persecuting Christ. If you reject His church, you are rejecting Christ.

What happens with bible-only Christians who reject the teachings of the Catholic church claiming that those teachings are false and stating that they follow Jesus and don’t need to follow any “man made” church.

Have they, in effect, rejected Jesus by rejecting His church or is salvation still possible for them even though they are outside of the Catholic faith?
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If a person rejects Christ by intentionally rejecting His Church knowing that the Catholic Church is the true Church and speaks for Christ. They are most likely lost.
 
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Bella3502:
Sounds like you are asking if you have to be Catholic to get to heaven. If so, I would say no.
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I don’t think that’s the point of the thread. The point of contention is rather simple: would those who reject the teachings of the Church obtain salvation? This means then deliberately not accepting the teachings of the Church. A non-Catholic who has not heard of Christ or His Church would have no fault for the simple reason that he has not done anything to reject Jesus or the Church, but someone who, after being told of Him and His Church, still refuses to enter in it or remain in it will not be saved.
 
**816 **“The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.”

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God.”

**817 **In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

**818 **“However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

**819 **“Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

-Catechism of the Catholic Church
 
The doctrine of salvation only in the Church is infallible. So too, the doctrine of salvation outside the Church is infallible.

The way it works is that the Church is both the visible church on earth and the invisible church in heaven as one. Those that are not in full communion with the visible church on earth, can be in spiritual communion with the invisible church in heaven, if and only if through no fault of their own they do not know about the Church and her doctrines. In such cases they can be saved if they are in a state of grace. However, it is also important that the person tries to learn more about Christianity and eventually learn about the Catholic Church. They can’t just say: “In that case if I stay dumb, I’ll be considered saved by all religions.” That would be held against them because they refused to learn when they could’ve and should’ve.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
If a person rejects Christ by intentionally rejecting His Church knowing that the Catholic Church is the true Church and speaks for Christ. They are most likely lost.
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But what if they learn about the Church, see all the evidence, but for one reason or another still don’t believe it’s the Church Jesus founded. In other words, all the evidence in the world doesn’t convince them even though it’s right in front of them. In their own minds, they are NOT rejecting Christ’s Church.
 
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Elzee:
But what if they learn about the Church, see all the evidence, but for one reason or another still don’t believe it’s the Church Jesus founded. In other words, all the evidence in the world doesn’t convince them even though it’s right in front of them. In their own minds, they are NOT rejecting Christ’s Church.
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**That doesn’t make any sense. In such a case, then they can’t be saved because they rejected the Church. To reject the Church is to reject Christ. It’s like one of Christ’s disciples telling Christ: “I disagree with you on this issue, but I believe you are God. So, I’m going to start a seperate church that worships you, but with different beliefs.” :whacky: **
 
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Elzee:
But what if they learn about the Church, see all the evidence, but for one reason or another still don’t believe it’s the Church Jesus founded. In other words, all the evidence in the world doesn’t convince them even though it’s right in front of them. In their own minds, they are NOT rejecting Christ’s Church.
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People do evil all the time, believing “in their own minds” that it’s OK.
 
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Elzee:
But what if they learn about the Church, see all the evidence, but for one reason or another still don’t believe it’s the Church Jesus founded. In other words, all the evidence in the world doesn’t convince them even though it’s right in front of them. In their own minds, they are NOT rejecting Christ’s Church.
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That would be correct. They are not consciously rejecting the Catholic Church.
 
Christ is more merciful than we can fathom. I suspect we’re going to find more than a few non-Catholic Christians in Heaven. Well I take that back…sort of…we’ll all be Catholic in Heaven…some of our brothers and sisters in Heaven may not have been Catholic on Earth.

Those who have been given the faith on Earth to be Catholic have been given a very special gift. Those who have been given more…more is expected. So don’t rest on your laurals thinking, I’m Catholic…I’m in and those poor Protestants are lost. They haven’t been given what you have been given…yet. Pray that they get the gift of faith. It really is more fun being Catholic.
 
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Elzee:
But what if they learn about the Church, see all the evidence, but for one reason or another still don’t believe it’s the Church Jesus founded. In other words, all the evidence in the world doesn’t convince them even though it’s right in front of them. In their own minds, they are NOT rejecting Christ’s Church.
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I think you’ve answered it yourself already: in their own minds then, they think they’re not rejecting Christ’s Church. It’s their own notion. They’ve seen all the evidence, they’ve heard all about it. They know where the Church is. They still refuse to enter it. It’s clear what Judgment awaits them.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
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Elzee:
But what if they learn about the Church, see all the evidence, but for one reason or another still don’t believe it’s the Church Jesus founded. In other words, all the evidence in the world doesn’t convince them even though it’s right in front of them. In their own minds, they are NOT rejecting Christ’s Church.
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That would be correct. They are not consciously rejecting the Catholic Church.
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But they ARE consciously rejecting the Catholic Church because they do not believe that the Catholic church is the church that Christ founded.

My question is, does that matter? Because Paul didn’t think that he was persecuting Jesus but even though he did THINK he was, Acts 2 clearly shows us that he WAS persecuting Jesus DESPITE what he taught because Jesus and His church are one. So, someone who rejects the Catholic faith ALSO rejects Jesus even if they don’t realize it.
 
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Milliardo:
I think you’ve answered it yourself already: in their own minds then, they think they’re not rejecting Christ’s Church. It’s their own notion. They’ve seen all the evidence, they’ve heard all about it. They know where the Church is. They still refuse to enter it. It’s clear what Judgment awaits them.
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I don’t think it is as cut and dried as that, many of the Protestants I discuss faith with do not understand Catholicism. Many have outrageous misconceptions about what the catechism teaches and what our faith is about. A high percentage of conservative Protestants see eye to eye on 98% of the Catholic Churches teachings. If a Protestant is truly bible believing “sola scriptura” and they read and understand the bible with an open heart and open mind, much like Scott Hahn, they will be drawn to towards the Catholic Church because of its tradition, apostolic succession and scriptural references. If they do not follow the bible as they have understood it, they will be responsible for their actions, and their inactions. I mean lets face it “sola fide” and “sola scriptura” are much easier belief system than to adhering to the teachings of the Church. I feel it would be more detrimental to ones soul to have been Catholic and to have fallen away from the Church than to never have truly understood the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Code: 
 Luke 12 : 48 But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.

   Peace,
David
 
Sir Knight:
But they ARE consciously rejecting the Catholic Church because they do not believe that the Catholic church is the church that Christ founded.

My question is, does that matter? Because Paul didn’t think that he was persecuting Jesus but even though he did THINK he was, Acts 2 clearly shows us that he WAS persecuting Jesus DESPITE what he taught because Jesus and His church are one. So, someone who rejects the Catholic faith ALSO rejects Jesus even if they don’t realize it.
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Something Archbishop Sheen said comes to mind. Something like that not a hundred people reject the Catholic Church for what she really is. But many more reject the Catholic Church for what they think she is. It’s going to be up to God to determine the limits of invincible ignorance.
 
So how do we convince people to convert to the Catholic faith? They say that they have their bible and they do as the “Spirit” moves them and they do not need any Pope or Church to tell them what to do because they have Jesus for that.

And, of course, following that approach, there are hundreds of different Protestant denominations differing on everything under the Sun from abortion to homosexuality, etc.

So, I re-ask the question, how do we convince people to convert to the Catholic faith? They say that they have their bible and they do as the “Spirit” moves them and they do not need any Pope or Church to tell them what to do because they have Jesus for that.

Do those that reject the Catholic church reject Jesus and therefore also reject His salvation?

This is a fundamental question being asked of Catholics.
 
Baltimore Catechism number 2 says this

121 Question: Are all bound to belong to the Church?
Anwser: All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it cannot be saved.

The ‘Church’ here means the Catholic Church.

However, if non-Catholic Chrisitans don’t know the Catholic Church to be the true church, then this doesn’t apply.

This is from Vatican II

Referring to non-Catholic Christians, the Decree on Ecumenism stated, “The brethren divided from us also carry out many of the sacred actions of the Christian religion. Undoubtedly, in ways that vary according to the condition of each church or community, these actions can truly engender a life of grace, and can be rightly described as capable of providing access to the community of salvation . . . It follows that these separated churches and communities, though we believe they suffer from defects already mentioned, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.”

Need to look into it further? That was from one of the last few pragraphs from here - catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4085
 
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Flopfoot:
However, if non-Catholic Chrisitans don’t know the Catholic Church to be the true church, then this doesn’t apply
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So if somebody remains STUBORN and refuses to accept the Catholic Church as being ‘the Church’, then they are fine?

Seems like an easy way out – follow your own interpertation of Scripture since scripture can be mis-interperted in many ways to justify divorce & re-marriage, homosexuality, etc.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
If a person rejects Christ by intentionally rejecting His Church knowing that the Catholic Church is the true Church and speaks for Christ. They are most likely lost.
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A person could also reject Christ by refusing to believe, or even investigate the possibilty, that the Catholic Church is the true Church.
 
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