No, it doesn’t. CCC 846: Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse to enter it, or to remain in it. (cf. Lumen Gentium 14; Mark 16:16, John 3:5). What does CCC 819 then mean? It is shown in CCC 847: This affirmation (CCC 846, Lumen Gentium 14) is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and His Church…but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will…these too may achieve eternal salvation. So it is clear that CCC 819 shows us that, for those who do not know Christ and His Church–the Church which is the Catholic Church–then the means of salvation is there for them, but they are still called to strive and know Christ and His Church. Christ uses these means of salvation for them, but they are still encouraged to seek and know the Church.
Once again, re-read it. Nowhere in the section regarding material schismatics is there any notion, at all, of invincible ignorance. It follows, by several subtopics, this section. You can pull it up online. You’re pulling sections OUT OF CONTEXT. This is the same error Protestants commit with proof-texting, only you’re not doing it with Holy Writ, you’re doing it with the Catechism! Also, note that Lumen Gentium uses the word “know.”
I think it is clear that CCC 846 says that for those who refuse to enter the Church or to remain in it, then they cannot achieve salvation. CCC 847 does say that those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and His Church, then they can achieve it through the means disposed to them. I fail to see where one can go wrong there when the Catechism made it plain for all to read, unless one wants to say those were written only in a contextual kind of way. You may want to get the Catechism and read CCC 846 and 847, since I quoted both verbatim (or at least in 847 almost verbatim).
And I copied and pasted from the same document. In fact, let’s look at it more closely. Section 818-819 is entitled “Wounds to Unity.” That’s one section that deals with our seperated brethren. You might want to give that a re-read, as it specifically states that
I think we see here the danger of being too ecumeical, that we begin to fudge the truth by saying it is not necessary for one to be Catholic, as long as we believe in Christ. Am I correct in my analysis of your post? If we go by this logic then, why are we still Catholic? Why do we still defend the Church here? Why do we still subscribe to the Magisterium? By your logic, it doesn’t make much of a difference in one being Protestant from one being Catholic. I think that is a dangerous notion. Yes, I read the sections cited. Does that necessarily mean that CCC 846 is aimed at non-Christians only? What is the meaning then of CCC 846 in mentioning, specifically, that they could not be saved who,* knowing that the Catholic Church* was founded as necessary… Nothing could be more clearer than that. It didn’t say, …that they could not be saved who, knowing that the Christian religion was founded as necessary… It was very specific: they could not be saved if they refuse to enter or remain in the Catholic Church. The point of CCC 846 is not directed only at non-Christians, but indeed even to our separated brethren as well. The unity of it to CCC 819 could not be clearer then: yes, the other Christian churches and communities do offer salvation to those who do not, through no fault of their own, know Christ or His Church. But they should still seek the Church, and they are encouraged to do so. Or else, by the logic you present, we are in no way obliged to remain Catholic, since all the other churches are no different from the Catholic Church, nor are our separated brethren encouraged or obliged to seek the Church.
A) We’re Catholic because we’ve seen that it is the fullness of truth.
I would only base my faith on the REAL, ORIGINAL word of God written in Scripture rather than on the tradtion and interpretation of the Bible by the Catholic Church or any other church. Why do you follow man rather than God???
Amen, Those who will get to heaven are the people who hear the word of God and follow it. I can’t find any place in scripture that says you have to be Catholic.(But I do think you can get there,too.
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Who gave you the right to judge??? Only God can judge. I live the word of God as written in scripture (to the best of my ability).
You’re going to have to do better than that. Please show me where exactly the Catholic Church has both taken away from and added to scripture. I will require references if you don’t mind.
Below you will find some Scriptures that the Catholic doesn’t teach.
This is patently absurd. I can remember this argument from my youth in the Baptist Church, where I first began to follow Christ. Even then I wondered “but who, in the end, can say which interpretation or slant on the Bible is correct?” Why are there so many different Protestant sects, each with it’s own special “emphasis?” If you wanted to know what Shakespeare was trying to say in ***Othello ***and Shakespeare was alive and kicking, one assumes that HE would best know what he was trying to say, what he meant. It’s the same with the Bible. It didn’t fall out of the sky bound in black leather with gilt edges. It rises out of the Church and NOT vice versa. It is the Word of God, but only the magisterium of the Church can definitively interpret it. The Bible means what the Church has always taught that It means and It doesn’t mean anything else.
You are either being misleading or you are woefully misinformed. I’ve heard commentary on all of these by the Church, either from the ambo or from Catholic books. Kindly do not presume to speak to what my Church believes or teaches. You’ve obviously no idea.
Giver said:
You’ll be greatly disappointed: the Catholic Church teaches each and every one of them.
I did not say those words; it is in the Catechism. I only posted what was written there. Yes, only God can judge, but He also gave a power to Peter to bind and loose.
It’s just too comical that you are quoting from a Catholic book… a book that was assembled by the Catholic Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I wonder who is to say what is the true Church of God? The Catholic Church says they are and quote scripture and history to back up their claim, but other churches do the same. For me I like the Scripture where Jesus tells us: (Mark 9:38 – 40) “John said to Him, ‘Master, we saw a man who is not one of us casting out devils in your name; and because he was not one of us we tried to stop him’. But Jesus said, ‘you must not stop him: no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Anyone who is not against us is for us.”