Will Orthodox and Catholics Reconcile?

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Makarios

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Does anyone think they will? I doubt Catholics will negotiate their belief in papal infallibility and the Pope’s primacy and I don’t think the Orthodox will want to negotiate many things as well. Does anyone think it’s a lost cause? Another problem lies in the Filioque

EDIT: I also feel that if it comes to these group being reunited, I believe the Orthodox will be the ones who will have to risk more. How does that make the Orthodox feel?
 
Makarios said:
… I believe the Orthodox will be the ones who will have to risk more. How does that make the Orthodox feel?
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It’s not as if it hasn’t been tried before. It has always turned out badly.
 
its funny, we have the most in common and the hardest time reconciling. when i was in school I would always talk with my greek friends hoping the day would come; they’d follow the pope, and we’d get dressed for church…isn’t childhood so simple =]

hopefully we will live to see the day
 
Makarios said:
Does anyone think they will? I doubt Catholics will negotiate their belief in papal infallibility and the Pope’s primacy and I don’t think the Orthodox will want to negotiate many things as well. Does anyone think it’s a lost cause? Another problem lies in the Filioque

EDIT: I also feel that if it comes to these group being reunited, I believe the Orthodox will be the ones who will have to risk more. How does that make the Orthodox feel?
Click to expand...
Yes, I think they will. Unity is not a lost cause.

The papal infallibility thing just needs to be spun in a way that makes clear in dogma what is clear in practice: the pope cannot set forth such a pronouncement without the support of an Ecumenical Council. The two times infallibility has been used the pope acted with the support of the Magisterium, which is the functional equivalent of a Council, and that which he set forth was already believed by the Orthodox.

A bigger sticking point is the definition of primacy. The Catechism of the (Roman) Catholic Church says that Rome has all jurisdiction everywhere. That paragraph will have to be rewritten.
 
You would think so from researching them both. Looks more administrative than anything, The issues certainly look like they can and should be resolved.

I think its seriously Sad, and I can’t believe it will take the return of Jesus Christ to resolve these issues.

God Bless, GT
 
I hope God brings us together, but it just seems to be something I will never see in my lifetime. Saddening indeed 😦
 
When the subject of the Catholic Church comes up in conversation with my fellow parishioners, it’s always negative. They are * very* critical of western theology and seem to have no interest in pursuing dialogue toward the goal of reunion. Catholics are heretics, and should return to Orthodoxy, period. I find this attitude very disheartening, but it’s been my personal experience. 😦
 
dcointin said:
When the subject of the Catholic Church comes up in conversation with my fellow parishioners, it’s always negative. They are * very* critical of western theology and seem to have no interest in pursuing dialogue toward the goal of reunion. Catholics are heretics, and should return to Orthodoxy, period. I find this attitude very disheartening, but it’s been my personal experience. 😦
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If you don’t mind me asking, which jurisdiction do you belong to?
 
dcointin said:
When the subject of the Catholic Church comes up in conversation with my fellow parishioners, it’s always negative. They are * very* critical of western theology and seem to have no interest in pursuing dialogue toward the goal of reunion. Catholics are heretics, and should return to Orthodoxy, period. I find this attitude very disheartening, but it’s been my personal experience. 😦
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I can sympathize with you.

My entire family is Catholic (at least, those who are still religious) and I love them. I am not interested in perpetuating schism. This becomes very personal.

Not only that, but most of the members of my parish (OCA) have Catholic relatives and in-laws too. There is no personal hostility, but they are Orthodox for very specific reasons, they just don’t speak in terms of “Roman Catholics are heretics”. We all decry the schism, but we are standing on one side of it for a reason. I expect to wait out reconciliation as an Orthodox, and if need be go to my maker as an Orthodox.

Personally, I have grave doubts about Roman rite Catholicism on many levels (not unresolvable perhaps, but they are there), and reading posts at CAF by Catholics about their own church doesn’t make one feel any more confident about it.

Then there is the mythologizing, which is in a class by itself. It’s enough to break one’s heart.
 
dcointin said:
When the subject of the Catholic Church comes up in conversation with my fellow parishioners, it’s always negative. They are * very* critical of western theology and seem to have no interest in pursuing dialogue toward the goal of reunion. Catholics are heretics, and should return to Orthodoxy, period. I find this attitude very disheartening, but it’s been my personal experience. 😦
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Why do I have the feeling you are absolutely right? :rolleyes:
 
Makarios said:
Does anyone think they will? I doubt Catholics will negotiate their belief in papal infallibility and the Pope’s primacy and I don’t think the Orthodox will want to negotiate many things as well. Does anyone think it’s a lost cause? Another problem lies in the Filioque

EDIT: I also feel that if it comes to these group being reunited, I believe the Orthodox will be the ones who will have to risk more. How does that make the Orthodox feel?
Click to expand...
I would love to see the day. I can’t believe that Jesus likes to have His Body split into pieces.
 
Makarios said:
I hope God brings us together, but it just seems to be something I will never see in my lifetime. Saddening indeed 😦
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You’ve touched on an important point. This problem may be beyond the power of humans to fix. So humans need to pray that God will make it happen. All things are possible for God.
 
dcointin said:
When the subject of the Catholic Church comes up in conversation with my fellow parishioners, it’s always negative. They are very critical of western theology and seem to have no interest in pursuing dialogue toward the goal of reunion. Catholics are heretics, and should return to Orthodoxy, period. I find this attitude very disheartening, but it’s been my personal experience. 😦
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What should be their stance in your view?

Curiously,
Mick
👍
 
GaryTaylor said:
Looks more administrative than anything, The issues certainly look like they can and should be resolved.
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I just read a comment by a Catholic on another thread to the effect that the Pope is the visible head of the Church and the Orthodox must abandon pride and accept their place in God’s creation. Is that Catholic wrong?
 
Makarios said:
Does anyone think they will? I doubt Catholics will negotiate their belief in papal infallibility and the Pope’s primacy and I don’t think the Orthodox will want to negotiate many things as well. Does anyone think it’s a lost cause? Another problem lies in the Filioque

EDIT: I also feel that if it comes to these group being reunited, I believe the Orthodox will be the ones who will have to risk more. How does that make the Orthodox feel?
Click to expand...
To a certain extent, yes. And it may be within our lifetime. But, I don’t think it will be in the way that there will be a single big church organization. It may come to that point too. However, it will be in quite some time.
 
No it will never happen short of a violation of free will by God. Regardless of how many liberal “Catholics” there are, the old liberal clergy is dieing off and new ordinates are much more orthodox (lower-o). As they take power the Church will continue to teach what it has always taught. Possibly the more liberal parishioners will begin to file out into a large splinter group with the divide between their own thinking and the actual beliefs. I think we’ll get closer to the Orthodox in terms of population. 1.2 billion is in itself an overstatement since many people just leave without officially leaving. Now after this happens the Catholic Church will be firmly obstinate in maintaining true Catholic belief. The Orthodox have always been good at avoiding heterodoxy and they will be as well. Neither will compromise belief to reconcile the differences, because neither of us can. We cannot renounce papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, etc because if we do then Catholicism is a false true Church. The Orthodoxy cannot accept these things because if they do then Orthodoxy is a false true church. Not to mention the fallen human nature in us all that will drive leaders to not give up power.

Short of God coming down and speaking personally to the Pope and cardinals telling them Orthodoxy is true, or God speaking to every Orthodox Church member (no central leadership so pretty much everyone is necessary) saying Catholicism is true, reunion will never, ever happen. I suppose one Church could be destroyed too, but that wouldn’t really be reunion.

Myself, I believe Christ founded a Church and either the Orthodox or us have it right. I was born Catholic, I feel God’s presence in Catholicism, and I don’t deny his presence in Orthodoxy. I realized if I let myself become to caught up in the divide then I wouldn’t be serving God to the best of my ability, so I have chosen and will stay with Catholicism.
 
Maybe the only way to reunite is to make an ecumenical council together.
Orthodox Christians do not believe in the 21st ecumenical council (Vatican 2) because they only believe in the 7 earliest ecumenical councils.

But they both believes that a ecumenical council is true so if they could agree to one than they can unite.
 
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