Will Pell be defrocked?

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I will only respond with this. He was proven guilty. It is quite accurate to say convicted pedophile cardinal Pell.
 
The case is on appeal.

It was almost inevitable that a jury would find the man guilty - I’m actually surprised that the first attempt ended in a hung jury.

From a legal perspective, if they have no other evidence but one witness telling a story (and the other witness has been dead for years apparently), that’s a weak case and was likely won on emotion. Of course, since I wasn’t there and don’t trust the media coverage, I don’t know what else they might have had.

However, the case is on appeal. Until the appeal is final, then unless the Church itself has conducted some investigation and is convinced of Pell’s guilt (which is what seems to have happened with McCarrick) then they are unlikely to laicize him unless either he loses all his appeals or he requests laicization. I would add that in some past cases under Pope JPII that involved high-profile cardinals who appeared much more clearly guilty than Pell, they were just quietly put away…not laicized.

So I’m in wait-and-see mode.
 
Appeals are not retrials. They’re reviews to see that the trial was properly conducted. Nine out of ten times nothing gets turned over.

Granted, this is Australia and not the US. Maybe their rules are different.
 
I worked for an appellate court and believe me, a lot more than 9 out of 10 times stuff was at least partially turned over. Of course, I was in USA. It might be different in Australia.

Most of the stuff that was a slam dunk didn’t even go to trial. A settlement was reached before it got to that point.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
I worked for an appellate court and believe me, a lot more than 9 out of 10 times stuff was at least partially turned over.

Most of the stuff that was a slam dunk didn’t even go to trial. A settlement was reached before it got to that point.
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Apologies. Mine is from a civics course I took in college around the turn of the century. Perhaps my info is outdated.
 
It really depends on stuff like the court, the type of case, the quality of the lawyers.

You can bet that with such a high-profile case and no doubt the very best lawyers defending Pell, this will be a substantive appeal. The appellate court knows it’s going to be in the public eye and the judges will try to write something pretty airtight.

In US at the state court level, I’m sure a lot of appeals are throwaways because of the mediocre to poor quality of lawyers - in some cases you have defendants trying to write their own appeal. I was not in the state court and many of the cases coming up on appeal had very good legal counsel and involved a lot of money. This case likewise will have good counsel and high stakes and the whole world is watching. It could get interesting.
 
For what it’s worth, another Australian bishop convicted of covering up abuse was acquitted quite recently on appeal. It looks like it hinged on interpretation of evidence, not a legal question, like Pell’s case.

 
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Hoosier-Daddy said:
OJ did it.
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It’s interesting that you say this as OJ was acquitted by a jury of his peers in the justice system of a western civilized country. So if that’s what we’re going by, shouldn’t you be saying “OJ did not do it”? 😉
 
I didn’t say what he did. He was convicted of other crimes and served time. There was also a wrongful death suit and award. Right? But you did make me chuckle!
 
BartholomewB said:
All the indications are that the Vatican believes him to be not guilty.
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I also am inclined to believe he’s not guilty (the reasons for which have been covered in other threads). This is far from an open-shut case like McCarrick, and Pell is adamantly defending his innocence. I’d imagine that the Vatican would at least wait until the appeal process is finished before making a final decision.
 
“If I did it” a great example of a book in this thread. Pell will have to find a different title. One does not want to be guilty of plagiarism. That’s a crime you know!
 
Tis_Bearself said:
The case is on appeal.

It was almost inevitable that a jury would find the man guilty - I’m actually surprised that the first attempt ended in a hung jury.

From a legal perspective, if they have no other evidence but one witness telling a story (and the other witness has been dead for years apparently), that’s a weak case and was likely won on emotion. Of course, since I wasn’t there and don’t trust the media coverage, I don’t know what else they might have had.

However, the case is on appeal. Until the appeal is final, then unless the Church itself has conducted some investigation and is convinced of Pell’s guilt (which is what seems to have happened with McCarrick) then they are unlikely to laicize him unless either he loses all his appeals or he requests laicization. I would add that in some past cases under Pope JPII that involved high-profile cardinals who appeared much more clearly guilty than Pell, they were just quietly put away…not laicized.

So I’m in wait-and-see mode.
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This is pretty much how I see things too. Though I would argue that JPII’s way of handling things isn’t likely to apply here. He had the luxury of being able to quietly put people away. I think that with all the public pressure right now, that would be very difficult for Francis to do.
 
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Atreju said:
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phil19034:
Currently, his lawyers say he has a very strong appeal and that they expect this conviction to be overturned.
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Every high profile attorney of a convicted client says this.
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Strawman. Of course they do, never claimed otherwise.
 
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I’m genuinely curious. What would it take for all you who think Pell is innocent / falsely accused / etc. change your minds? Apparently guilty verdicts are worthless. So what, then? Or do you take the position that nothing can ever be “proven” to your satisfaction?
 
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