Will Pope Francis Invite Lutherans into an Ordinariate?

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EvangelCatholic said:
The ECLA is in concert with the See of Uppsula currently presided over** Archbishop Ander Wejryd**
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From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Sweden

"On 22 October 2009, the assembly of the Lutheran Church of Sweden voted strongly in favour of giving its blessing to same-sex marriages,[4] including the use of the term marriage. It is the first major church in Sweden to take this position on same-sex marriage.[18] Archbishop of Uppsala Anders Wejryd commented that he was pleased with the decision.[2] "

I pray that the remaining confessional Lutherans in the ELCA lead this Bishop into the faith that he professes.
 
JonNC said:
I don’t know about many. The PorVoo conf. in Europe has it through the Anglicans, and the ELCA claims it through the Episcopal Church. It is true, however, that some Lutherans either don’t or just don’t see any value in it. 🤷

Jon
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The Episcopal Church does not have valid ordinations thus they have lost their Apostolic Succession. 😦
 
aidanbradypop said:
The Episcopal Church does not have valid ordinations thus they have lost their Apostolic Succession. 😦
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Which is an accurate representation of the conclusions of Apostolicae Curae and what every RC should certainly affirm. Other folks, not RC, can take a different view of the matter (and intent, and form).

Jon is one of those other folk. Not sure where he stands on that point, though.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Which is an accurate representation of the conclusions of Apostolicae Curae and what every RC should certainly affirm. Other folks, not RC, can take a different view of the matter (and intent, and form).

Jon is one of those other folk. Not sure where he stands on that point, though.

GKC
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The Anglican Ordinariate in the US now has Apostolic Succession. I am sure that if any Lutherans ever joined a Ordinariate if one was established, then they would also regain Apostolic Succession.

A buddy of mine is a former ELCA pastor and says that AS is worthless and was created by man, not Christ. 🤷
 
aidanbradypop said:
The Anglican Ordinariate in the US now has Apostolic Succession. I am sure that if any Lutherans ever joined a Ordinariate if one was established, then they would also regain Apostolic Succession.

A buddy of mine is a former ELCA pastor and says that AS is worthless and was created by man, not Christ. 🤷
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I would suspect that your first para is correct. Whether the Anglicans had that succession prior to joining the Ordinariate is a point folks, of different sorts, might take different positions on.

GKC
 
GKC said:
I would suspect that your first para is correct. Whether the Anglicans had that succession prior to joining the Ordinariate is a point folks, of different sorts, might take different positions on.

GKC
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Right. As we spoke on before, many in my family have now joined the Anglican Ordinariate in the US. They believed they did not have AS and are glad they do so now. I believe the Church of England at one time may have had it but since lost it. 😦
 
aidanbradypop said:
The Episcopal Church does not have valid ordinations thus they have lost their Apostolic Succession. 😦
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Your comment was about AS, not about the Catholic view of validity. GKC responded to part. My only comment is that while there are Lutherans who devalue AS, it certainly isn’t all or most. And the Scandinavian Lutherans never gave it up.
Jon
 
aidanbradypop said:
Right. As we spoke on before, many in my family have now joined the Anglican Ordinariate in the US. They believed they did not have AS and are glad they do so now. I believe the Church of England at one time may have had it but since lost it. 😦
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Folks do believe a variety of things.

GKC
 
JonNC said:
Your comment was about AS, not about the Catholic view of validity. GKC responded to part. My only comment is that while there are Lutherans who devalue AS, it certainly isn’t all or most. And the Scandinavian Lutherans never gave it up.
Jon
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AS and valid ordinations go together.

Does the Church accept the Scandinavian Lutherans ordination?
 
aidanbradypop said:
AS and valid ordinations go together.

Does the Church accept the Scandinavian Lutherans ordination?
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Sneaking in a comment.

The Lutherans who retained the succession, as generally thought, do not fall under the judgment of Apostolicae Curae, as to form and intent. But I am not well versed in the RCC’s attitude toward this. It might be as with the original Old Catholics. Or perhaps not.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Sneaking in a comment.

The Lutherans who retained the succession, as generally thought, do not fall under the judgment of Apostolicae Curae, as to form and intent. But I am not well versed in the RCC’s attitude toward this. It might be as with the original Old Catholics. Or perhaps not.

GKC
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Yeah I am not sure either. The Old Catholic do not have valid orders as well.
 
JonNC said:
Your comment was about AS, not about the Catholic view of validity. GKC responded to part. My only comment is that while there are Lutherans who devalue AS, it certainly isn’t all or most. And the Scandinavian Lutherans never gave it up.
Jon
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As I understand I think what you are saying is accurate not just from your POV but also from the Catholic POV. The CC has determined the Anglican Communion effectively lost AS, but as I understand it there are at least certain Lutherans who are affirmed as continuing to have it validly. Scandinavian sounds right for this.
 
crazzeto said:
As I understand it the Old Catholics indeed have valid orders.
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Because when they went schismatic, they did nothing to cause a break in the succession. Thus, per Ott, p. 458, providing intent is valid, and external rites likewise, they transmit valid (though illicit) orders.

GKC
 
crazzeto said:
As I understand I think what you are saying is accurate not just from your POV but also from the Catholic POV. The CC has determined the Anglican Communion effectively lost AS, but as I understand it there are at least certain Lutherans who are affirmed as continuing to have it validly. Scandinavian sounds right for this.
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That is the situation, as I understand it. My sort of Continuing Anglicans are developing relationships with that sort of Scandinavian Lutherans.

GKC
 
crazzeto said:
As I understand I think what you are saying is accurate not just from your POV but also from the Catholic POV. The CC has determined the Anglican Communion effectively lost AS, but as I understand it there are at least certain Lutherans who are affirmed as continuing to have it validly. Scandinavian sounds right for this.
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I don’t believe, though I may be wrong, that Rome has affirmed, meaning a statement of affirmation, any Lutheran AS. Instead, I think it just hasn’t been commented on, as was Anglican orders.

Jon
 
GKC said:
Which is an accurate representation of the conclusions of Apostolicae Curae and what every RC should certainly affirm. Other folks, not RC, can take a different view of the matter (and intent, and form).

Jon is one of those other folk. Not sure where he stands on that point, though.

GKC
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I think there was a quiet pun on the word “matter”. If so, it is appreciated.
 
I’m not sure I even understand and/or appreciate a mindset that places so much emphasis on ecclesiastical matters as apostolic succession. Orthodox primates are equals among all bishops. Anglicans and most Lutherans have legitimate/valid Orders and point of reference [archbishops] who at the Reformation merely changed their name from Roman Catholic to Lutheran/ Anglican.

To me, anything that intentionally divides us is a questionable preoccupation.
 
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