Will Pope Francis Invite Lutherans into an Ordinariate?

[GKC]

Actually it is important to note that ‘reordained’ in this case could only mean from a Lutheran perspective. The sacrament of Holy Orders can only be received once. Once you are validly ordained there is no being ‘reordained’, not ever. So as GKC said, on the Catholic side it’s always absolute if the sacrament is conferred.

The closest you could come is that the church will perform what is called a ‘conditional’ baptism in certain cases where it is not clear if the candidate has not previously been baptized, so perhaps something like this might(??) exist? I.e. something along the likes of ‘if you have not been baptized (ordained) … sacrament continues’.

Or a sub conditione ordination. It is known to have happened twice, since Apostolicae Curae was issued, to two Anglican priests. One, Fr. J. J. Hughes, is still alive and is the author of the two best books on the long, sad history of the Bull that I have found, in my years of studying the matter. The other, Fr. Graham Leonard, one time Anglican Bishop of London, died 3 years ago.

Ordination imprints, as is said, an indelible character on the recipient. Hence the use of a *sub conditione *form, if it were a matter of doubt. For RCs, with respect to Anglican priests, the matter is rarely in doubt. Such is the teaching of the RCC. I rarely argue with people about things like that.

GKC

 

[aidanbradypop]

Or a sub conditione ordination. It is known to have happened twice, since Apostolicae Curae was issued, to two Anglican priests. One, Fr. J. J. Hughes, is still alive and is the author of the two best books on the long, sad history of the Bull that I have found, in my years of studying the matter. The other, Fr. Graham Leonard, one time Anglican Bishop of London, died 3 years ago.

Ordination imprints, as is said, an indelible character on the recipient. Hence the use of a *sub conditione *form, if it were a matter of doubt. For RCs, with respect to Anglican priests, the matter is rarely in doubt. Such is the teaching of the RCC. I rarely argue with people about things like that.

GKC

I’m wondeing where jrtrent went. He usually post on these type of threads.

 

[GKC]

I’m wondeing where jrtrent went. He usually post on these type of threads.

Haven’t seen him for a while. He’s excellent proof of the variability of Anglicans. Motley crew, them Anglicans, I say.

GKC

 

[gcnuss]

I hope Pastor Gary weighs in, but my understanding is the same as GKC’s. when I used the term reordained I was speaking from a Lutheran perspective.
The Lutheran / Catholic statement The Church as Koinonia does speak of Lutheran clergy in a priest-like manner, but I still think, as it stands now, a Lutheran ordination would not be accepted.
Jon

That is my understanding as well.

 

[aidanbradypop]

That is my understanding as well.

I believe the Church would view you as a pastor but not a member of the priesthood

 

[crazzeto]

Or a sub conditione ordination. It is known to have happened twice, since Apostolicae Curae was issued, to two Anglican priests. One, Fr. J. J. Hughes, is still alive and is the author of the two best books on the long, sad history of the Bull that I have found, in my years of studying the matter. The other, Fr. Graham Leonard, one time Anglican Bishop of London, died 3 years ago.

Ordination imprints, as is said, an indelible character on the recipient. Hence the use of a *sub conditione *form, if it were a matter of doubt. For RCs, with respect to Anglican priests, the matter is rarely in doubt. Such is the teaching of the RCC. I rarely argue with people about things like that.

GKC

Thanks for that

 

[GKC]

Thanks for that

You are very welcome.

GKC

 

[MaryT777]

If a Lutheran Ordinariate would come about and Lutheran Pastors jump ship, the Catholic Church would get well trained men that would be a blessing to the Catholic Church.

I agree with that based on my friendship with one LCMS Pastor. ;

 

[Peter_J]

Neuhaus could not wait for the reunion of Lutheran and Roman Catholic.

Nor Michael Root apparently.

 

[Peter_J]

Actually it is important to note that ‘reordained’ in this case could only mean from a Lutheran perspective. The sacrament of Holy Orders can only be received once. Once you are validly ordained there is no being ‘reordained’, not ever.

Good point. We don’t want people to start thinking we’re Anaordainists.

 

[Peter_J]

I think the question is: Is there very much reason for a Lutheran Ordinariate? I realize the ELCA has many of the same problems as the ECUSA … but the LCMS doesn’t. (Of course, that’s just in the USA. I can’t really speak to the possibility of a Lutheran Ordinariate in other countries.)

 

[EvangelCatholic]

It is interesting that I read an article this weekend in The Lutheran magazine on the topic of a Lutheran ordinariate. As one can expect, those quoted in the article did not appreciate the Roman Catholic church urging Lutherans to “return.”

 

[aidanbradypop]

It is interesting that I read an article this weekend in The Lutheran magazine on the topic of a Lutheran ordinariate. As one can expect, those quoted in the article did not appreciate the Roman Catholic church urging Lutherans to “return.”

The “return” part is sure to stir up some issues because many Lutherans, as I am sure you do, believe they are still part of the OHCAC.

 

[Peter_J]

As one can expect, those quoted in the article did not appreciate the Roman Catholic church urging Lutherans to “return.”

I agree that’s no great surprise … just as it’s no great surprise that we don’t like you guys encouraging Catholics to go Lutheran.

 

[MaryT777]

It is interesting that I read an article this weekend in The Lutheran magazine on the topic of a Lutheran ordinariate. As one can expect, those quoted in the article did not appreciate the Roman Catholic church urging Lutherans to “return.”

The return phrase never goes over particularly well.

 

[benjohnson]

The return phrase never goes over particularly well.

It doesn’t bother me at all - my feelings are that the invitation should be received with a reflection of the kindness in which it is offered. If the Lutherans church fails, it’s nice to know that someone out there cares.

Frankly, I could imagine how some Lutheran synods are not being particularly amused - their leadership probably doesn’t want yet another avenue for confessional Lutherans to migrate away leaving the synod as a secular husk.

 

[aidanbradypop]

It doesn’t bother me at all - my feelings are that the invitation should be received with a reflection of the kindness in which it is offered. If the Lutherans church fails, it’s nice to know that someone out there cares.

Frankly, I could imagine how some Lutheran synods are not being particularly amused - their leadership probably doesn’t want yet another avenue for confessional Lutherans to migrate away leaving the synod as a secular husk.

If Lutherans believe that they are part or the OHCAC, why would they need an Ordinariate? If they are already part of the Church, would not an Ordinariate kind be redundent in a sense?

 

[Filii_Dei]

If Lutherans believe that they are part or the OHCAC, why would they need an Ordinariate? If they are already part of the Church, would not an Ordinariate kind be redundent in a sense?

The same could be said of the Anglicans who came into communion under the Ordinariate. It’s because they believe that being in full communion with the Catholic Church is better than going it solo, and that right-believing Christians are better off when they band together in meaningful union.

 

[aidanbradypop]

The same could be said of the Anglicans who came into communion under the Ordinariate. It’s because they believe that being in full communion with the Catholic Church is better than going it solo, and that Christians of the true faith are better off being in communion than excluding each other.

very true

 

[Peter_J]

The same could be said of the Anglicans who came into communion under the Ordinariate.

That goes back to my point:

I think the question is: Is there very much reason for a Lutheran Ordinariate? I realize the ELCA has many of the same problems as the ECUSA … but the LCMS doesn’t. (Of course, that’s just in the USA. I can’t really speak to the possibility of a Lutheran Ordinariate in other countries.)