Thanks for sharing that link. Rev. Flemestad’s remarks about the “structural fault” in Lutheranism was interesting and echoes concerns I have about our synod. The fact that I even entertain a Plan B in case orthodox Lutherans get marginalized in our synod speaks volumes. Perhaps that’s why I persist in hanging around CAF - just checking how far that swim would be (just in case).
The solution presented here was interesting, though in a way I wonder if it is on some level futile. In a sense, trying to bring everyone along they have remained quite protestant. They still have the same problem of structure, at the end of the day, that he already identified. I pray for the best for them though, it is a noble journey they have started.
Interesting. Can you provide a source?
The quoted document, they’re going neither “Rome” nor “Constantinople”. They seem to have a quasi alliance with the Old Catholics but aren’t comfortable with them either since the European Old Catholics are doing everything their native Lutheran Church is doing.
You would submit to the authority of the Church and the Pope just like every other Catholic does. The Ordinariate would simply allow Lutherans to keep some of their "t"raditions and customs.
My sense is that “traditions” are not enough to satisfy Lutherans, especially since the Mass and liturgical customs are almost if not totally identical to the Roman Church. The English Book of Prayer is unique. The Lutheran missals merely watered down the Medieval Mass of what was considered unnecessary rituals or restored them followed Vatican II. If a Lutheran wants unity with Rome it is about the papacy and authority in the Church. Many would convert immediately except we can not abide infallibility.You would submit to the authority of the Church and the Pope just like every other Catholic does. The Ordinariate would simply allow Lutherans to keep some of their "t"raditions and customs.
As my great aunt, who joined the Anglican Ordinariate, stated…I am 100% Catholic in communion with Rome but I still get to sing my wonderful Old English Hymns and kneel at the altar rails.
You would be Catholic 100% and under that authority of the Church just like I am.
I love your desire for unity. I may not agree with you all the time, yet I still respect your desire for one Church.
Sorry, I should have said "Can you provide source for ‘They still have the same problem of structure, at the end of the day, that he already identified.’ " I just figured that was implied.
The term “Old Catholic” without qualifier nowadays generally refers to the Union of Utretch, which the Nordic Catholic Church isn’t. (And I’ve never heard of them having a “quasi alliance with the Old Catholics”.
Again, source please?)
However, they (along with the PNCC) can be called “*traditional *Old Catholic”, as distinct from the more-liberal Old Catholic Union of Utretch.
They’re still “pro-testing” plain and simple. Private judgment still plagues them.
He is back!
The problem of structure is that they still, ultimately are on their own. How different is this than the Bishops of the Lutheran Church they just left? How affiliated are they to an established ancient church and what obedience do they really owe to any such church?
PNCC is it’s self a break away from the Catholic Church. Again see Utretch, they didn’t start out hyper liberal.The term “Old Catholic” without qualifier nowadays generally refers to the Union of Utretch, which the Nordic Catholic Church isn’t. (And I’ve never heard of them having a “quasi alliance with the Old Catholics”.
However, they (along with the PNCC) can be called “*traditional *Old Catholic”, as distinct from the more-liberal Old Catholic Union of Utretch.
Pardon my ignorance but what is the difference between the Anglican Prayer Book and the Book of Divine Worship?
I’ve heard the reverse of this claim (more or less), i.e. that the Orthodox really do believe in papal infallibility and just haven’t realized it yet.
Book of Divine Worship is an adaptation of the American Book of Common Prayer (BCP) by the Roman Catholic Church. It is used primarily by former members of the Episcopal Church within Anglican Use parishes. The Book of Divine Worship contains elements of the 1928 and 1979 American editions of the Book of Common Prayer as well as the 1973 Roman Missal, Missale Romanum. It opens with the Calendar of the Church Year used in Anglican Use, followed by the Daily Office lectionary arranged in a two-year cycle. Three readings from Old and New Testaments are provided for each Sunday and weekday in both cycles. The psalms are arranged on a seven-week pattern throughout the year and sung in Anglican Chant. Antiphons – drawn from the psalms, from the opening sentences in the Offices or from scriptural passages – are used with the psalms or canticles.
And this is where we part lol. The Church will not change to please society. Society needs to conform to the Church. The Church is one for all Christians. It has always been one but others felt they knew for than the Church and wanted the authority rather than submitting to it. If it happens in our lives as you state, then you will see me converting to Orthodoxy also.
Sound like you’ve been reading Fr. Hart. 
