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Beautiful
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I think Alternating CurrentPS: every time I read or write AC I think of air-conditioner
PPS: this is just my :twocents:
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Darryl1958
Guest
I think that the early Fathers had an important understanding, and that is that the antiChrist will make the claim to be divinity.
The antiChrist will be seen by believers and devout especially even, as the Second Coming.
Maybe the most devout and the most faithful will be the ones who are most deceived.
This is a real problem, I think, and it has been at the heart of Christianity from the beginning.
How do we discern the Son of Man, Jesus, from the Son of God, Barabbas? The Jews *ought *to have been the ones who recognized Christ as messiah because they are the ones with the scripture, but they didn’t.
Will Christians, who have access to two thousand years of a relationship with Christ, be able to recognize Christ from antiChrist?
That is really an open question.
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Beautiful
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The Church has and always will be about preparing for this event and everything beyond on a micro and macro level.
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mikekle
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I agree with everything else you said in this post, but, like Ive said before, once the AC performs a clearly supernatural act in front of many people (maybe even inside a church)…Im thinking it would be very easy to tell who he is…right? Thats what Im kind of ‘banking on’ anyway if it should happen in my lifetime.
I mean, after all, there really are only 2 beings capable of such things, Jesus or the AC, the AC will HAVE to do many of these things, to make people believe he really is Jesus returned.
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Darryl1958
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Would it really be so easy to tell?
Could not the Second Coming of the Christ not also have some miracles associated with Jesus, maybe some even performed in a church by HIm?
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mikekle
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Well…Yes, I think it would be easy to tell, if we turned on the news one morning and saw a certain person doing this kind of thing, the ONLY 2 beings it could be is the AC or Jesus, a little more ‘digging’ into this persons history would sufficient enough to determine what he is, plus, when Jesus returns, he is going to come down from the sky, its not like hes going to be born a regular man again and progress to adulthood.
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Jeanne_S
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I pray to St.Michael both morning and before going to bed at night.
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BornInMarch
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The Antichrist is a deceiver.
I don’t think recognizing him when he comes will be as easy as Where’s Waldo.
I don’t think recognizing him when he comes will be as easy as Where’s Waldo.
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JimG
Guest
Yes, I think the Church will recognize the anti-Christ. He will become apparent through his actions, which will be perceived by the world as great and peaceful and beneficial.
But a large part of the Church will defect and apostatize.
I recently read the book “Lord of The World,” by Msgr. Robert Hugh Benson, which is a novel portraying the events surrounding the arrival of the anti-Christ. I read it because I had heard that both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis had called it prophetic. And it is.
It was not an easy read for me. It’s written in an earlier style by an Englishman. It’s a science fiction book written before World War I, so the author is writing before two world wars and Vatican II and the advent of large scale commercial flight. Still after finishing it , it kept coming back to my mind. It really is prophetic. The pope is forced to leave Rome. Catholic are persecuted with the ultimate aim of destroying the Church completely.
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Elizium23
Guest
It is ridiculous to suppose that the Church would not recognize the Antichrist. As the Church is the guardian of Truth, Beauty and Goodness, and protected from error by the Holy Spirit himself, it is literally impossible that she should fail to identify the Antichrist plainly. Perhaps most of the world, and even most of the Church, will not listen, but it will happen.
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Lily_Bernans
Guest
If it would be easy to recognize either the False Prophet or the AC, then the Catechism would not say this:
Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.
Many will be deceived, even many of the clergy. As another poster pointed out, the Jews should have recognized Jesus, they had the Scripture, which gives hundreds of prophecies about him, all of which Jesus fulfilled, yet most of the Jews did not recognize him. We know the signs of the FP and the AC, yet many will be deceived when they arrive. Who knows, the FP may be here already, subtly preparing the way for the AC. Again, I am speaking in general terms and referencing no one specific at all.
It’s just my opinion, of course, but I don’t think it’s going to happen in the lifetime of anyone on this board, though who really knows? It could happen today. Even Christ said no man knows the day or the hour of his Second Coming. All we know is that we are living in the final days, but the final days could encompass thousands of years, maybe more. I certainly have no knowledge of it.
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Lily_Bernans
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I agree with you. If it were going to be easy to recognize both the FP and the AC, then there would be no reason for their coming. There would be no Apocalypse.
If it would be easy to recognize him, then the Church would not have to pass through a final trial when many will be deceived, and that includes many within the Church.
I write that and I am not one of those “doom and gloom, the end is near” kind of persons. Generally, I don’t worry much about the AC, but I do take him very, very seriously, and I know if he appears during my lifetime, I cannot look to the Church for guidance. The Church will be split, and we will not know for sure which “side” to follow. We can only look to God in prayer. Jesus will never desert his Church, that is true, but which “branch” of the Church will we follow? Rome is already developing a schism.
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Lily_Bernans
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I do, too, and during the day. A very good idea, Jeanne, and one all of us should follow. We have been able to depend on the Church to guide us all our lives, but if the Church develops a rift, how will we know which “side” to follow? Personally, I think we will know only if we have a close relationship with Christ.I pray to St.Michael both morning and before going to bed at night.
It all sounds so “cloak and dagger” it’s easy to forget how serious it is. I feel a little strange just typing this, but the FP and the AC will appear in human history, and we have no idea when. Christ, himself, told us to be on guard.
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Peebo
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There are many Christians…mainly Evangelical who see the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon and the Pope as the Antichrist…or the False Prophet…depends what interpretation you read…read Revelation…also they say that Rome (hence the Vatican) sits on the seven hills mentioned in revelation…also the Harlot clothed in scarlet they see as the colors of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church…they also see the Popes title as Vicar of Christ to mean that the Popes have replaced Christ as head of the church…sorry for not having all the relevant information…just type “Pope as the antichrist or Catholic Church Whore of Babylon”…you’ll get all the information you need…just remember that it’s all lies…the Catholic Church has and always will be the Church founded by Jesus Christ
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Lily_Bernans
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Rome does sit on seven hills, BTW.
Of course Christ founded the Catholic Church, but what if a schism occurs within the Catholic Church? That’s what many theologians I know believe is happening even now.
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Peebo
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Looking up on Wikipedia there are many cities throughout the world which claim to have seven hills…Jerusalem…Tehran…Mecca…Istanbul…among others…even some 20 cities here in the US…maybe a case could be made for one of these cities as being the seat of the antichrist instead of Rome…be interesting to know
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Lily_Bernans
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That’s true. Rome is just one of them. The FP and the AC are not going to make it easy for us to recognize who they are. Not even our highest clergy will have clarity on the matter. That is the nature of the whole thing.
Most of the theologians at the school where I teach, and most I’ve corresponded with, believe that a schism will occur within the Roman Catholic Church due to the AC and that many, if not most believers will follow the AC. He will be someone no one would ever suspect except the small remnant that will be left at the end of the apocalypse.
(Wikipedia is really not a good source for theology since anyone can write anything there, but in this case, yes, some other cities are said to be built on seven hills. I’d never heard of that many before, though.)
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Peebo
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So do most theologians think he will come out of the Catholic Church… it sounds as if that is the case if they believe it will cause a schism within the Catholic Church…I wonder if this has come about because of much of the controversy surrounding Pope Francis…it does appear just by reading many of the posts here by conservative Catholics they are not too happy with him to say the least…personally I think he is showing the love and mercy of Jesus Christ and not all the legalese some cling to…and of course he hasn’t changed any doctrine as some would like him to…and others are just itching for him to try so they can say…aha told you so…thanks for the info
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Lily_Bernans
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Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen certainly thought the AC would arise from within the Church and lead most of the members astray.
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Peebo
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I guess all we can really do is be aware of the times as Jesus said…whether it happens now or in a million years…I know some Christians also believe the antichrist will be a political figure…others say it will be a political system rather than a person…and (shades of “Battlestar Galactica”) I’ve even heard some believe he will be Artificial Intelligence
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