Will there be EC in America in 40 years?

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve seen fallen away Roman Catholics come back to the church after being away, ten, twenty, thirty, and even forty years. There’s no reason they can’t come back to EC churches as well. A couple things I remember being told at EC Churches over the years which convince of that are 1. The large numbers that only turn up at Easter and Christmas. 2. The claims I’ve heard from parishoners, that in many cases, the fallen away live closer than some of the regular attendees.

I can vouch for #1. In the recent weeks there’s been noticeably more people at Divine Liturgy.

There is also a story I was told about people asking the priest what time is the blessing of Easter baskets. The priest said “after Divine Liturgy”. Then they asked, what time is that? The priest replied, “Divine Liturgy starts at 10am”. Then they asked again, “so what time will that be over?” They are not interested in the Liturgy, just in the tradition of the blessing of Easter baskets.

 

[Hesychios]

I just said communion. I never said it had to be a uniate. They will have to accept the Pope, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be the current definition.

Well, they already know he’s a real person, they talk to him.

What kind of acceptance do you propose?

 

[PodunkMommy]

There is also a story I was told about people asking the priest what time is the blessing of Easter baskets. The priest said “after Divine Liturgy”. Then they asked, what time is that? The priest replied, “Divine Liturgy starts at 10am”. Then they asked again, “so what time will that be over?” They are not interested in the Liturgy, just in the tradition of the blessing of Easter baskets.

If all they want is their Easter baskets and bread blessed, they could do that in a RC Church. I don’t know if all RC Churches do it this way, but one that I know of, blesses the Easter Baskets, bread, and the Easter meal on Holy Saturday morning at a specified time.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well, they already know he’s a real person, they talk to him.

What kind of acceptance do you propose?

If it were up to me, the current definition would be just fine
But its up to the Orthodox Churches and Rome to figure it out. If I had the solution then God would have called me to become a bishop.

 

[ConstantineTG]

If all they want is their Easter baskets and bread blessed, they could do that in a RC Church. I don’t know if all RC Churches do it this way, but one that I know of, blesses the Easter Baskets, bread, and the Easter meal on Holy Saturday morning at a specified time.

I think part of the point of the story is people want to stick with their cultural traditions but not necessarily want to practice the faith.

I can relate, in the Philippines there are many practices and beliefs intertwined with the culture and the Church. Some people can’t even distinguish which is cultural, which is religious. Sad part is some people do something because its the Filipino thing to do, not because its the Catholic thing to do.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well, they already know he’s a real person, they talk to him.

What kind of acceptance do you propose?

How about communion?

While they know he is a person they do not accept communion with him. Some even doubt the Sacraments in the Catholic Church carry any Grace.

 

[Hesychios]

If it were up to me, the current definition would be just fine
But its up to the Orthodox Churches and Rome to figure it out. If I had the solution then God would have called me to become a bishop.

In other words, you have no suggestion, except to say it is not going to be a form of Unia.

Is that correct?

Why not leave it as it is then? He can mind his business in the churches he now controls and Orthodox will mind their business.

For arguments sake I propose that we share communion on that basis.

No change at all except to share communion, would that satisfy you?

For good measure we can bring in the non-Chalcedonians and the Anglican communion if you like, too .

 

[ConstantineTG]

In other words, you have no suggestion, except to say it is not going to be a form of Unia.

Is that correct?

Why not leave it as it is then? He can mind his business in the churches he now controls and Orthodox will mind their business.

For arguments sake I propose that we share communion on that basis.

No change at all except to share communion, would that satisfy you?

For good measure we can bring in the non-Chalcedonians and the Anglican communion if you like, too .

But where is our point of communion on earth? What if one decides 10 years later to head to another direction than the other? We break communion again?

I would agree to that as a first step. We not only have to get into communion, but we also have to figure out how we keep it.

 

[sidbrown]

For arguments sake I propose that we share communion on that basis.

No change at all except to share communion, would that satisfy you?

But don’t the Roman Catholics agree to that now, but the E. Orthodox do not?

 

[sidbrown]

I can vouch for #1. In the recent weeks there’s been noticeably more people at Divine Liturgy.

There is also a story I was told about people asking the priest what time is the blessing of Easter baskets. The priest said “after Divine Liturgy”. Then they asked, what time is that? The priest replied, “Divine Liturgy starts at 10am”. Then they asked again, “so what time will that be over?” They are not interested in the Liturgy, just in the tradition of the blessing of Easter baskets.

I am sorry to mention this, but for the E. Orthodox Churches that I have visited, I see a basket at the rear of the Church and it is there for people to contribute. However, in the E. Catholic Churches that I have visited, there was very often part of the sermon where the priest was asking for more money. In one case, it was a pledge from every family for $500 in addition to the weekly offering and bake sales. In another case it was for the bishop’s appeal which was for a minimum of $200, but on the envelope passed out, it was printed as high as $5,000. And the ushers were passing the basket twice, once after the sermon, and for a second time toward the end.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I am sorry to mention this, but for the E. Orthodox Churches that I have visited, I see a basket at the rear of the Church and it is there for people to contribute. However, in the E. Catholic Churches that I have visited, there was very often part of the sermon where the priest was asking for more money. In one case, it was a pledge from every family for $500 in addition to the weekly offering and bake sales. In another case it was for the bishop’s appeal which was for a minimum of $200, but on the envelope passed out, it was printed as high as $5,000. And the ushers were passing the basket twice, once after the sermon, and for a second time toward the end.

A plead for funds happens in RC parishes as well. I haven’t really been in a parish for a length of time that the priest doesn’t plead for better contributions.

In the Archdiocese of Vancouver, there is a funding project called Project Advance where each parish is give a quota amount to raise for an entire year, depending on the number of registered parishioners. Then any excess of that amount goes back to the parish.

 

[mardukm]

I am sorry to mention this, but for the E. Orthodox Churches that I have visited, I see a basket at the rear of the Church and it is there for people to contribute. However, in the E. Catholic Churches that I have visited, there was very often part of the sermon where the priest was asking for more money. In one case, it was a pledge from every family for $500 in addition to the weekly offering and bake sales. In another case it was for the bishop’s appeal which was for a minimum of $200, but on the envelope passed out, it was printed as high as $5,000. And the ushers were passing the basket twice, once after the sermon, and for a second time toward the end.

So what?

I admit I have not been to many EO Churches, but are we to believe that EOC’s NEVER ask their parishioners for more funds when necessary?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[PodunkMommy]

ConstantineTG:

I think part of the point of the story is people want to stick with their cultural traditions but not necessarily want to practice the faith…

Oh, I get it now. Thanks for clarifying that. I can totally understand that myself especially coming from my grandparents generation where faith and cultural were intertwined so much. It still seems to be that way for relatives living in southern Italy, at least from my own perception of things.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Oh, I get it now. Thanks for clarifying that. I can totally understand that myself especially coming from my grandparents generation where faith and cultural were intertwined so much. It still seems to be that way for relatives living in southern Italy, at least from my own perception of things.

Sometimes its good because it gets people into the church and hopefully through the grace of God they return to the faith fully. I know I went through a time that I wasn’t a good Catholic and even doubted God’s role in my life. I kept going to Mass because it was expected of me by the society and by my parents. I credit that in part in God granting me the grace to see the light and come back to the faith.

So people can complain about those who are not serious with the faith coming to church. But I’ve been part of that crown and I can say that as long as they are there, they receive some graces which hopefully lead them to a more devout life.

 

[PodunkMommy]

I credit that in part in God granting me the grace to see the light and come back to the faith.

So people can complain about those who are not serious with the faith coming to church. But I’ve been part of that crown and I can say that as long as they are there, they receive some graces which hopefully lead them to a more devout life.

I totally agree. I remember when I was first married of sharing with my husband that I had to go to Mass once a month. I have no idea where I got that idea in my head. My own parents were cultural Catholics but less so even in the sense that my grandparents were. All my ideas of Catholicism were tied up in those of my grandparents from southern Italy and Sicily. It was those that kept me holding onto the faith for so long; though I didn’t exactly know what I was holding on to.

 

[sidbrown]

So what?

The question was why so many people are not coming to Divine Liturgy every Sunday. I gave a possible answer.

 

[Aramis]

Byzantine Catholics MUST disappear if we are to live out our vocation…we must become Orthodox.

Not so.

I thought that the Eastern Orthodox rejected the Uniate model for reunion. I don;t see the EO accepting the infallibility or the universal supremacy of the Roman Pope.

Some did. Some are still pursuing it. (Romanian bishops still are divided on the issue, tho public pursuit is, at present, quashed. In part, by Rome’s request.)

Its the Orthodox who must become Eastern Catholics in union with the heir of Peter

Agreed, tho not by the old uniate model; that model is expired. The Communion of Churches model, essentially adopted at Vatican II, with pope functionally as archpatriarch (but never called that), and being further and further put into practice in the last few years, seems to be the model to be used.

The Byzantine Rite Orthodox Churches, however, lack the fullness of the faith by their lack of communion with Rome. They continue to diverge theologically, and in praxis, from both the ecclesiology of the first millennium and theological unity of first millenium.

 

[Madaglan]

The Byzantine Rite Orthodox Churches, however, lack the fullness of the faith by their lack of communion with Rome. They continue to diverge theologically, and in praxis, from both the ecclesiology of the first millennium and theological unity of first millenium.

You really think that? I knew Catholics see Orthodox as deficient due to their non-communion with Rome, but this claim of a continuing trend of theological divergence is something new to me.

It’s been my experience, having been Latin Catholic for quite some time, that it’s the other way around: that the Latin Church has continued to diverge theologically and in praxis. When the Latin Church begins looking like a Protestant church, I know it can’t be from the first millenium. As the early Church held, lex orandi, lex credendi.

 

[malphono]

I knew Catholics see Orthodox as deficient due to their non-communion with Rome, but this claim of a continuing trend of theological divergence is something new to me.

It’s been my experience, having been Latin Catholic for quite some time, that it’s the other way around: that the Latin Church has continued to diverge theologically and in praxis. When the Latin Church begins looking like a Protestant church, I know it can’t be from the first millenium. As the early Church held, lex orandi, lex credendi.

FWIW, my reading of the “First Millennium benchmark test” puts the EO and OO as the winners hands down, at least in the theology and praxis categories. In the ecclesiology category, the sole winner is the OO: it seems to me that both the EO and the RC fail miserably there.

 

[Hesychios]

FWIW, my reading of the “First Millennium benchmark test” puts the EO and OO as the winners hands down, at least in the theology and praxis categories. In the ecclesiology category, the sole winner is the OO: it seems to me that both the EO and the RC fail miserably there.

Actually, I basically agree with you.