Will you forgive me for asking?

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I kind of view it as not being stuck anymore. For example, if somebody hurts you, you get stuck in that moment where you found out/saw/heard the hurtful thing. If somebody says something to you that hurts your feelings, you get locked in that moment where your heart is pounding, you feel like crying and/or are crying, your knees get shaky, your stomach hurts, etc. Forgiveness is not being stuck in that moment anymore. It is remembering the moment (because you really can’t forget), but it is not BEING there anymore.

Now, with that very basic example it makes it sound simple.

But, like we all know, it is so hard to do. I struggle with it all the time. :o
 
rinnie said:
I agree he is saying to love one another but I missed where he said we cannot separate ourselves from one another.

But I thought we were taught to walk away turn the other cheek when one hurts us and forgive but where does it say to continue to be abused etc? I missed that one.

I always read if someone refuses to hear or believe the word (which when a person continues to hurt another person) to shake the dust off of the ole shoes and walk away. Its really the same thing.

But I was always taught to pray for them, continue to love then, but I never read you had to continue to hang out with them and take the abuse. Where does walking away mean you quit loving them or praying for them.

Are you saying God wants us to continue to take verbal abuse. Because sometimes people refuse to change. Again show me were God says we have to stick around and continue to be hurt and keep forgiving.

GOd gave us common sense to walk away.
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Yes, that makes sense to me. Forgiveness can mean to turn the other cheek (or not seek revenge). Rebecca’s thought also makes sense: Forgiveness can mean to restore or establish a relationship with the one forgiven. It seems, then, that there is not one Forgiveness, but at least two! and there is more than one way to forgive.

So how do I know when to embrace the forgiven, and when to merely turn the other cheek and walk away? Can you think of an example when embracing (or befriending) the one forgiven is appropriate, Rinnie?
 
Carlan said:
Spock,
I will simply say what we pray every day in the Prayer our Lord gave us.
“Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

When we ask this, we are reminding ourselves of what of what we must ask
And what we must do in order to be worthy in turn to receive.

What do I receive from God for forgiving my brother and for asking for and receiving forgiveness for myself?
I rec’ back from Him the gift of renewed relationship with Him.
Peace, brother, Carlan
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Yes, but is it not shameful that we so mindlessly pray the prayer Jesus taught us? For day after day we (in effect) pray, “Forgive us the same way we forgive others…” yet you and I (to our shame) have been unable to say (and demonstrate) exactly what the word forgive actually means!

If we don’t know the meaning of the word forgive, then how can we understand what we are praying? If we don’t know the meaning of the word forgive, then how can me know how God wants us to forgive others? If we don’t know how God wants us to forgive others, then how can we know that God will forgive us?

That’s why a dialog like this is so important–it forces us to figure out exactly what forgiveness is, and by so figuring, know better how God expects us to forgive, and what we must do to be forgiven. See why I continue to ask? We both need each other to help us understand forgiveness so that we might forgive and be forgiven. It’s more than merely a fun-and-games merry-go-round–it’s really a serious matter of eternal life and death. We should have fun in making the attempt to understand, but we should also keep in mind that reason for trying to comprehend is nothing to laugh at.
 
OscarsMama said:
I kind of view it as not being stuck anymore. For example, if somebody hurts you, you get stuck in that moment where you found out/saw/heard the hurtful thing. If somebody says something to you that hurts your feelings, you get locked in that moment where your heart is pounding, you feel like crying and/or are crying, your knees get shaky, your stomach hurts, etc. Forgiveness is not being stuck in that moment anymore. It is remembering the moment (because you really can’t forget), but it is not BEING there anymore.

Now, with that very basic example it makes it sound simple.

But, like we all know, it is so hard to do. I struggle with it all the time. :o
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Yes, I like the sound of that, OM!

👍

Can you think of any way that forgiving someone can help that forgiven someone get unstuck, too?

🤷
 
spockrates said:
Now the deeper, but more practical question: What does a person have to DO (if anything) before I or you forgive her so completely and so permanently? What does a person have to do before I or you must try to forgive her as perfectly as God forgives her?
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Show contrition; true sorrow for what they have done; and, they must ask.
 
spockrates said:
I want her to:


  1. *]not feel a grudge
    *]not seek revenge
    *]not treat me as harshly as I deserve
    *]not continue to hold me liable for my sins
    *]allow me to remain her friend

    Did I leave anything out?

    🙂
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  1. Completely forget that I even did it? God bless:thumbsup:👍👍
 
Ben_F said:
Completely forget that I even did it? God bless:thumbsup:👍👍
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Unless one has a less than adequate memory, no one “forgets” when they are harmed. We can, nevertheless, still forgive and not hold anything against them. God, however, says that He will remember our sins no more. They no longer exist. That is awsome!
 
Spock,
Since I have never met up with you before now, and please forgive me for asking if it is none of my beeswax, what is a closet Catholic? and I thank you in advance for forgiving my show of ignorance. Peace, Carlan
 
spockrates said:
Yes, good idea, Vico!

👍

Let’s start with the common dictionary definitions. But may I suggest we use a more complete list?
for·give
 
 /fərˈgɪv/ verb, -gave, -giv·en, -giv·ing.
–verb (used with object)
  1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
  2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
  3. to grant pardon to (a person).
  4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one’s enemies.
  5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
–verb (used without object)
6. to pardon an offense or an offender.
Now Vico, please tell me. In which of these six ways do you want God to forgive you?

🤷
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Freedom from bondage to sin and death which are the consequences that mankind has now due to the ancestral sin of Adam and Eve.
 
… dear mr spock ,

… she is not dead apparently 🙂 , one thing may help : when you forgive you must also forget the offense ever happened , then the forgiveness is divine like , another point worth noting : god is love , and not so much good , the differene being that if one is pure good one can do no evil at all , including any sort of punishment , even if such punishment has the best of intentions and motives such as the good of another , no , god is love , or god = love , and love does what is best for another including forms of punishment for the good of another , god acts out of pure love and not pure good , we in our fallen state and world are now incapable of acting out of pure love , and hence knowing good or evil we must choose one of these , and the wise choose pure good as the goal , but in the beginnig it was pure love ,

… may god bless and love you 👍🙂 ,

…john …
 
spockrates said:
Yes, I like the sound of that, OM!

👍

Can you think of any way that forgiving someone can help that forgiven someone get unstuck, too?

🤷
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I think that if you work on your forgiveness with the other person, they can get unstuck, too. Because many times, I think, both people (the hurt one and the one who did the hurting) are stuck in that moment. Sometimes it is possible for two people (or a group of people) to work on their forgiveness together. Sometimes it is not possible.

I think that many of the “hurt people” are wanting to work on the forgiveness with the other person. They think that the other person needs to do something for the forgiveness to happen. For example, “if so-and-so would just appoligize.” “if so-and-so would just admit they were wrong.” etc. Trust me. That makes no difference.

Like I wrote earlier. Forgiveness is easy to define. Easy to talk about. Easy to tell somebody that they need to do it. But HARD to do. Very very very very very hard.
 
Carlan said:
Spock,
Since I have never met up with you before now, and please forgive me for asking if it is none of my beeswax, what is a closet Catholic? and I thank you in advance for forgiving my show of ignorance. Peace, Carlan
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Glad you asked! Well, a closet Catholic might be analogous to a closet homosexual–which, BTW I’m not, as my wife could tell you! Just as a closet homosexual hides the fact of his sexual orientation, so too I’m hiding the fact of my religious orientation. I’m thinking of coming out of the closet, and have even started attending Mass on Wednesdays before work, but have not told anyone close to me, yet.
 
rinnie said:
Ah I just caught it NOW!!! There is NO WAY we can forgive the SAME PERFECT way that God forgives us.

Simply because we are never Going to BE God or any way close to being PERFECT LIKE HIM.

A Riddle HUH Mr. Spock. You should change your name to the RIDDLER:rotfl:
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Yes, quite a riddle, Rinnie!

👍

I mean, I think the modern proverb, “Nobody’s perfect” is true, don’t you? Then again, perhaps we are wrong and the disciples of Saint Thomas Aquinas, who are called Catholic Thomists and who believe sinless perfection is possible this side of eternity, are correct? Socrates said:

A wise man is not likely to talk nonsense. Let us try to understand him.

(Theaetetus, 152)

And it seems to me we ought to try to understand Thomas Aquinas, and our Redeemer Jesus Christ, who Himself commands us to:

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

(Matthew 5:48)

One thing comes to my mind: Christ would not command us to do something that is impossible for us to do, and He said that:

"…with God all things are possible.”

(Matthew 19:26)

So do you think that, with God’s help, we really can do the impossible? Do you think that God can actually give us the desire, and wisdom, and ability to forgive as perfectly as He Himself forgives?

🤷
 
spockrates said:
Glad you asked! Well, a closet Catholic might be analogous to a closet homosexual–which, BTW I’m not, as my wife could tell you! Just as a closet homosexual hides the fact of his sexual orientation, so too I’m hiding the fact of my religious orientation. I’m thinking of coming out of the closet, and have even started attending Mass on Wednesdays before work, but have not told anyone close to me, yet.
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Well, praise God , time to shout it from the rooftops, Spock,:extrahappy::yyeess::aok:

Peace, Carlan
 
Carlan said:
Well, praise God , time to shout it from the rooftops, Spock,:extrahappy::yyeess::aok:

Peace, Carlan
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Pray that the priest won’t have a heart attack when I go to confession for the first time in years and say, “Bless me father, for I have sinned. It has been __ years since my last confession.”

😉
 
Ben_F said:
Completely forget that I even did it? God bless:thumbsup:👍👍
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How about we say this to try to satisfy Steve: We try not to dwell on the forgiven sin and we don’t bring it up to the one we forgive again.

👍
 
Vico said:
Freedom from bondage to sin and death which are the consequences that mankind has now due to the ancestral sin of Adam and Eve.
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Yes, Adam and Eve (and all of us) lost their innocence when they left Paradise, but what (or more accurately who) else did they (and we) lose?

🤷
 
John_Russell_Jr said:
… dear mr spock ,

… she is not dead apparently 🙂 , one thing may help : when you forgive you must also forget the offense ever happened , then the forgiveness is divine like , another point worth noting : god is love , and not so much good , the differene being that if one is pure good one can do no evil at all , including any sort of punishment , even if such punishment has the best of intentions and motives such as the good of another , no , god is love , or god = love , and love does what is best for another including forms of punishment for the good of another , god acts out of pure love and not pure good , we in our fallen state and world are now incapable of acting out of pure love , and hence knowing good or evil we must choose one of these , and the wise choose pure good as the goal , but in the beginnig it was pure love ,

… may god bless and love you 👍🙂 ,

…john …
Click to expand...
Yes, Love does what is best for another, but what if what is best for one is what is worse for another? Does Love make a choice and sacrifice one to benefit the other?

🤷
 
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