WILLIAMS: Socialist Promises

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You go on and keep believing we don’t have the capability to off ourselves with the touch of a button or with long term disrespect towards a planet we’ve been commanded to cultivate and respect, for good reason.

Religion can be used to argue anything. Pre-trib, Post-trib, and millennial eschatology…We’re already a dying planet, we are actively saying good-bye to certain species and there are cities that will never be inhabited again due the FACT they’re now underwater.

Do I believe Christ will come again? Absolutely. I just don’t claim to know what He’ll find when he does.

What would induce anyone, at this stage, to hold unto power only to be remembered for their inability to take action when it was urgent and necessary to do so!~Pope Francis

Like Nineveh revisited, I’m going to listen to the spokesperson. I have no interest in what the persons who cannot even recognize the good that has come from safety and eco-regulations may or may not think of me…The Church holds more weight.
 
DENNYINMI said:
start believing in climate change or everyone dies…only this is for real.

The children (in this case my grandson, age 10) explained to me perfectly the association of the sun to our Northern lights…My heart skipped a bit…it was eloquent.!~ He also went on to explain that there is scientific proof that the planet we live on aligns perfectly with the Holy Fathers admonishment to us as Catholics and as a world. (I added the Holy Father)…because we’re destroying our eco-system with pollution. Like a body that needs nourishment to grow, feed the ocean and earth with no regulations, what do you expect from that ocean and ground in return??? A 10th grader could answer it…no need.

Our children believe in rational science they are being taught, they will look back, they might ask what WE did, I’m dead serious.

Do the socialists have to be the ones that are right in this case and in every case that aligns with the gospel regarding our attitude towards others? I hope not.
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Our earth is cleaner than it’s ever been. Conservatives like my family have been recycling for decades, driving older vehicles, living closer to our jobs, and using public transportation. You can blame Cash for Clunkers for filling our landfills with perfectly good cars that have been purposefully destroyed.

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St. Louis 1941
 
DENNYINMI said:
We have animals facing extinction, fish and mammals too because of man, you can’t have long term survival with insufficient habitat. Congratulations exploitation.
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What happened to the dinosaurs and mastodons? What happened to the ice that covered the area where I live?

I don’t take the position that man lived on the earth at the same time as the dinosaurs.

I’m grateful the ice receded because we are now growing food there.
 
The Mark to Market Rule in banking. Nearly put the country in a 1929-level depression like it did in 1929, and for no good reason at all.
 
At least where I live, wildlife is proliferating far beyond what it was when I was a kid.
 
upant said:
Presidential contenders are in a battle to out give one another.
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Buying votes will continue as SOP for democratic politicians until it no longer works. When will it no longer work? When the vote is taken away from net-takers at the federal trough would be one way.
 
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Regarding the above fore mentioned city of pollution, it was strong regulations that turned that mess around so we’re not wearing gas masks in the streets and can see 4 feet ahead of ourselves. Please, be real.
 
DENNYINMI said:
Regarding the above fore mentioned city of pollution, it was strong regulations that turned that mess around so we’re not wearing gas masks in the streets and can see 4 feet ahead of ourselves. Please, be real.
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Denny never met a regulation he didn’t like, lol.

Actually, pollution abated because people recognized the problem and stopped polluting.

You seem to be constantly battling a straw men on CAF, this image that the opposition is against all regulation.
 
As to the cities, you may be right. When it comes to the countryside, you’re mostly not. The farmers and ranchers are the ones who care for most of the forests and grasslands, and it’s their knowledge and love of the land (and productivity) that motivates them. Generally speaking, they’re much better stewards than either the federal or state governments.
 
DENNYINMI said:
Regarding this thread, Pope Francis warned of our pursuit of financial gain and “as a result, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless against the interests of the deified market”
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what about the moral issue of using cheap energy? is it bad to want to use increased energy to supports cleaner water and food, improved hygiene and better medical care?
Alex Epstein’s “ The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels ”. In one section, Epstein comments on U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s 2014 plea for Indonesia to cut carbon emissions to fight global warming. From 2006-16 Indonesia’s CO2 emissions grew by 3.1% annually, the Asian average. It’s no coincidence that in 2016 Indonesian life expectancy reached 69, up by 17 years over the previous half century. (forbes.com)
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DENNYINMI said:
Do I believe Christ will come again? Absolutely. I just don’t claim to know what He’ll find when he does.
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what does the bible say will happen at the coming of the Son of Man? i will quote it again.
upant said:
So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
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people will be here! why would Jesus return to a dead world? why won’t you agree on scripture?

you still haven’t commented on the globalist adding new coal plants. why should i believe the hype when new coal plants (allowed by the paris accord) will be added through 2030?
 
PaulinVA said:
Interesting subject.

Don’t socialists need the capitalist system to be running as efficiently as possible to reap the maximum possible taxes for redistribution?
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To me socialism is the full government control of all aspects of society including the means of production.

I think what people like Bernie Sanders want is to call themselves socialists but to spend the wealth created by capitalism while simultaneously bad mouthing the golden goose.

A problem with the socialist movement is that they are Progressive. They are always progressing towards actual socialism which wishes to eat the goose.
 
Sometimes the lines are blurred.

For example, farmers are supposed to be and feel independent. They grow crops and sell them at market all over the world. However, sometimes their land gets flooded and have to depend on government flood insurance and bailouts to help them along. Then again it might not be so bad if the President wouldn’t advance his trade wars.
 
ProVobis said:
Sometimes the lines are blurred.

For example, farmers are supposed to be and feel independent. They grow crops and sell them at market all over the world. However, sometimes their land gets flooded and have to depend on government flood insurance and bailouts to help them along. Then again it might not be so bad if the President wouldn’t advance his trade wars.
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I think that while some people do not want complete control of society through government sometimes we can mistakenly believe that they must want no government.

Governing bodies were raising taxes and (hopefully) spending resources to help citizens long before Marx wrote his manifesto or the Bolshevik (or indeed prior Portuguese) revolutions.

I would say that capitalism is not an equal and opposite alternative to socialism. Capitalism is only an economic process supporting company rights based on individual freedom of creating, owning and controlling capital. Capitalism is not meant to be a comprehensive system of human society but instead one important aspect of it. Governments are not part of capitalism but nor does capitalism somehow contradict or oppose government.

Government can be of such a power that it can wreck capitalist interactions or degrade it’s usefulness. But a meteor strike can wreck capitalist systems also but capitalism isn’t against meteors.

It is a judgement on what level of powers governments should have to take advantage of capitalism instead of degrading it to the extent we no longer benefit from it’s usefulness.

As you rightly point out, the idea is for farmers to be somewhat independent so that capitalism will allow the best of them to produce the most and best food for the rest of the citizens in mutual trade (including all over the world). As you say, sometimes though such a positive force for the rest of society will need help (as with flood damage) to continue doing this and the government has a role to play in that.
 
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