Winning back fallen away Catholics

[setarcos]

I reread my response and I don’t blame your confusion. I butchered proper grammar, editing was non existent. Anyway, you would have to give me a specific example. I can see where events in history preordained the necessity of a coming savior however I don’t see them in a typological sense. I see them as real events precipitating a real need. Of what concern is it to salvific history that one uses typology to compare Mary to Eve or the Ark to Mary - and this as I said only if you ignore the things that don’t fit the comparisons - for instance? Prophecy is not typology. Typology may be interesting, we are pattern seeking minds after all, it may be used to promote certain beliefs but it cannot be used to predict reality. Either you believe God is hands off when it comes to allowing for mankind to choose freely his own destiny or you believe that “he” has intervened in the manipulation of reality so that a typological order be created.

 

[JanetF]

I cant’ tell what you are responding to, please go back and use the quote feature so I can answer your question.

 

[Bre6785]

I believe Gods handprints are all over each one of our lives, weather we see it or not. I also believe both and, because I cannot put God in a box. Meaning, he allows our free will, but because he is God, he also knows how “it” will play out. I don’t believe heis up there watching everything on this earth happen in real time, he is outside of time. So it has happened is happening and will happen… I also believe, everything in the bible is there for a reason. To say anything in the bible is coincidence rather than divinely ordered is a slippery slope. I think the most interesting part of what dr Hahn has to say, is that everything “revealed” to him, had always been taught from the earliest church fathers. It was no revelation to the Catholic church…

 

[Bre6785]

I thought it was awesome how God used topology (which he learned while in seminary to become a pastor) as his vehicle to the fullness of truth. If your truly searching truth out, you will find it. God knows when you hear it and know it, only Holy Spirit can lead us to it. If you feel you are sincerely in truth where you are, without having to talk yourself out of or into believing anything against your conscience, than you are precisely where God wants you.

 

[JanetF]

the handling of clergy sexual abuse by the Magisterium not to mention the infighting, backstabbing and political maneuvering taking place behind the scenes, practices- the initiation of the inquisition and some of the crusades, the Marian dogmas,

Sorry, but I don’t understand what you want me to discuss. Did clergy abuse happen? Of course, that’s not disputed. Did various bishops cover it up in their diocese? Yes, that’s not disputed. Based on your post, I highly recommend you look at the encyclopedia at catholic.com. I think you’ll find the answers you seek there. The explanations are far better than any I could give…
For example: re: the Inquisition? see Inquisition | Catholic Answers.
The Crusades: see Crusades | Catholic Answers

Honestly, it sounds to me like you would do well to read the works of the early Church fathers, more than relying on me to provide the historical context of the issues you seem to be consumed with.

What matters most to me that I understand about the Catholic Church is that she was founded by Jesus Christ, is the only Church where I can receive the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and frankly that’s more important to me that any of the historical events that were committed by humans long before I drew first breath.

…the Church has erred but you cant fault the church proper for the fallibility of some of her members. What if some of those members include the Magisterium?

I doubt if I’ve answered your questions satisfactorily, and frankly I have no desire to discuss the entire history of the Church, nor will the forum allow me that many characters in my responses as I’ve already had to edit this…so I’m going to bow out of this conversation now. I apologize that it took me several days to respond to you, but I have a full-time job and my spare time is limited right now.

Good luck in your search for the Truth.

 

[Bre6785]

Jesus also said to listen and do what the pharisees taught, but do not do what they do because they are hypocrites. I think that applies here.

 

[sonofbarry]

Many people in this part of the world have been disgusted by the sexual abuse of children, perpetrated by those who were supposedly looking after their spiritual interests. Teachers, priests, brothers.
More disgusting has been the utter incapacity to genuinely admit fault. The sheer intransigence of the church in this matter, the delays and denials, the dodging of blame, have been devastating to the church.
Fallen away?
They are not coming back.

 

[setarcos]

There is a slight difference. While Jesus taught do what they say not what they do…often the clergy do according to their understanding of what is in accordance with Christian teaching. Later of course these things were apologized for and excuses created in order to allow for their continued authoritative leadership. Which begs the question, If at the time they thought they were acting correctly according to their understanding but later admitted wrong doing then how is it we can trust the clergy if they cant even understand their own teachings?

 

[setarcos]

Greetings Janet,
I actually have a used set of Catholic Encyclopedias, I prefer the written word to the digitized.
To be blunt…there is no acceptable “explanation” to the clergies behaviors…past and present. Have you read the articles you recommended? Ironically one thing they do show is how un unified the early church fathers were on such matters. The earliest opinions though clearly lean towards exclusion of any kind of violence or threat of violence against heretics. Then the further we get from Christ and the Apostles walking the earth the more the Clergy seems to lose faith in Jesus’s recommended peaceful ways, first with surreptitious nods toward okaying secular enforcement then themselves getting directly involved.

What matters most to me that I understand about the Catholic Church is that she was founded by Jesus Christ, is the only Church where I can receive the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist,

My good woman that is what is being put to the test with these other questionable fruits the Roman Church has produced. You cannot equate the church Jesus had in mind to found with its clergy giving the okay to the accepting of the violence the Roman Church has produced.
Funny how so many bow out to discussing their beliefs when that is exactly what these apologetic forums were produced for. I do so wish that you would continue discussing this with me. Personally I don’t think many are actually aware of why they prefer the Roman Catholic version of Gods truth. Oh they’ll say its the only place they really feel Gods presence or it just rings truer to them when I wonder that it simply isn’t the pompous atmosphere of larger church’s, more elaborate rituals, the artwork, “blessed” statues, and the royal trappings and riches of a larger than life stage on which they may partake in as if somehow these rich trappings will enrich themselves . I think many People prefer these tangible and observable things over simply sitting on a hillside listening to the teacher teach. No paintings, no elaborate Church buildings, no statues, no crazily elaborate rituals to perform with gold plated goblets and fine linens; simply God speaking and you listening.
Disclaimer: this latter part is solely my opinion, subject to future correction.