Wisconsin Diocese offers birth control insurance, but warns employees not to use it

[irishpatrick]

MADISON, Wis. — A Wisconsin state law is forcing the Madison (Wis.) Catholic Diocese this month to begin offering its employees insurance coverage for birth control.

However, a diocesan spokesman said employees will be warned against using the benefit and that open defiance of Catholic teaching on the issue could ultimately lead to termination.

St. Mary’s Hospital in Madison has notified employees that it, too, soon will be required for the first time to cover contraception.

wcfcourier.com/news/local/article_0b904262-a4e4-11df-bde9-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[Dale_M]

Its strange that the legislature would pass such a law without a religious exemption. Such clauses are routine. Does anyone know the story of this piece of legislation?

I am glad that the hospital is considering having the law revised, to incorporate a religious exemption provision. I assume the Catholic bishops will also back this revision. But I wondering why this wasn’t done in the first place.

Here is a story from last summer, after the law had been passed.

The bishops of the Wisconsin Catholic Conference (WCC) have issued a statement to the state’s Catholic faithful expressing their “deep concern” about a state provision that requires providers of health insurance include contraceptive services. The rule will force Catholic dioceses and other agencies to pay for a “gravely immoral” service, the conference says…

The bishops charged that the state government’s mandate violates constitutional rights as well as religious values, citing the right of conscience established in the Wisconsin Constitution. Religious freedom also includes the ability to publicly witness to one’s values in what one does and in what one declines to do, they explained.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/wisconsin_requiring_catholic_institutions_to_provide_contraception_coverage/

Is anyone from Wisconsin familiar with events surrounding this law? Have the bishops given up on the idea of a constitutional challenge?

I guess the good news is that a couple diocese in Wisconsin are self-insured, and exempt from the contraception requirement.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I guess I’m naive but how can any government agency “force” a Catholic Bishop to do anything against the will of God?

 

[WetCatechumen]

I am not a bishop. I understand there are serious issues. However, in the face of this, we should fight and suffer the persecution. If they destroy our charities because we won’t do immoral things, then we will let them destroy them. That is my opinion.

But many others are wiser than I.

 

[JerryS]

Insurance records will be a great way to tell who’s in a state of mortal sin. Perhaps they’ll have to cover abortion too, so the excommunication list can be auto-generated.

 

[PaulinVA]

Why in the world are Bishops acceding to laws they consider immoral instead of resisting and either being sued or going to jail?

They just complain a lot and then do what the state tells them to do.

 

[Dale_M]

Insurance records will be a great way to tell who’s in a state of mortal sin.

That was my first thought. However, I suspect the records of prescriptions is considered confidential medical information, and is not released to employers.

According to the first article, the spokesman for the Diocese of Madison acknowledged that the diocese has no way to police the issue - an employee would have to offer the information.

 

[Rence]

That was my first thought. However, I suspect the records of prescriptions is considered confidential medical information, and is not released to employers.

According to the first article, the spokesman for the Diocese of Madison acknowledged that the diocese has no way to police the issue - an employee would have to offer the information.

Yes, the records of prescriptions (and any other health related insurance costs) are indeed confidential and one’s employer doesn’t need to know anything about it by law. So they really have no way to enforce this. They’ll have to rely on their employees choosing to follow the rules of the Church, and will only know if they don’t if the employee tells them.

 

[irishpatrick]

This is just another reason why I have been pounding the notion that persecution (real persecution) is coming to the USA if we do not put a stop the clear breaches of our religious freedoms. The problem is most Catholics are weak in the faith at best.

Catholic Charities of Boston was legally forced to give adoptions to gay couples, so the Bishop stopped doing adoptions (which means he was forced to stop doing part of the RC mission–they were prevented from following their faith).

There are many cases of pharmacists being forced to fill birth control prescriptions, or lose their jobs.

Madison has to have birth control coverage by law.

Same sex marriage is rapidly sweeping the nation and it WILL be forced on the Church.

The list goes on and on…the few I mentioned here just scratch the surface of how our religious freedoms are being taken one piece at a time.

Do catacombs have electricity and plumbing?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Does anyone know whether providing this insurance is active material cooperation with evil by the diocese? Is that allowed?

 

[irishpatrick]

Does anyone know whether providing this insurance is active material cooperation with evil by the diocese? Is that allowed?

I do not for sure, yet I have a hard time understanding how it could not be.

I supposed it depends on whether or not the Church has options. Can they just drop all insurance for their employees and provide a fund for each employee to purchase their own insurance, it yes than they should be doing that…yet it seems to me just lying down and accepting this is the last thing the Church should be doing.

 

[Rence]

Does anyone know whether providing this insurance is active material cooperation with evil by the diocese? Is that allowed?

The CCC says there has to be three criteria that must be satisfied for a sin to be mortal. First, the act committed must be considered grave or serious matter.
Second, the sinner must have full knowledge of the sinful character of the act.
Third, the sinner must give full consent of the will, and has reflected on doing the action and deliberately wants to do it.

The diocese is forced to comply with the law, thus they aren’t giving full consent. They don’t deliberately want to do it.

Anyway, at this point, they’ll have to rely on their employees to voluntarily follow the rules of the Church.

 

[sharmin]

Insurance records will be a great way to tell who’s in a state of mortal sin. Perhaps they’ll have to cover abortion too, so the excommunication list can be auto-generated.

Do we excommunicate now those who are in a state of sin?

 

[Rence]

I do not for sure, yet I have a hard time understanding how it could not be.

I supposed it depends on whether or not the Church has options. Can they just drop all insurance for their employees and provide a fund for each employee to purchase their own insurance, it yes than they should be doing that…yet it seems to me just lying down and accepting this is the last thing the Church should be doing.

Yes, they could do that, but then they would have no way to control what policies the employees will choose and what will be covered. If they provide a fund for each employee to purchase their own insurance, the employee can build their own policy and pick and choose what kind of coverage they want. And considering over 90% of Catholics are using contraceptives, it would be no different, except that sterilizations and abortions could be added to the policy as well.

I guess they’re not fighting that hard for it because they know that a suppelmental could have always been purchased by the employee all along to cover contraceptives (or any other services not approved by the diocese) by the employee him/herself anyway. IIRC, I believe you can add riders and pay for the extra coverage out of your own pocket.

And, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you can get contraception at PP for free or reduced cost if you can prove you can’t afford to buy it from the pharmacy…one of my friends was getting her contraceptives from PP for free because she was under a certain earnings bracket. I don’t know if that’s regional or across the states, or if that’s changed, but I don’t see why it would change.

Contraception is not that expensive. It’s like $20-50 a month. That’s less than one of my own presciptions that I have to pay for out of pocket. There are so many different brands of contraceptives that the cost to those taking them has to be competitive.

 

[Rence]

Originally Posted by JerryS
Insurance records will be a great way to tell who’s in a state of mortal sin. Perhaps they’ll have to cover abortion too, so the excommunication list can be auto-generated.

It is illegal for insurance companies to devulge private health information to employers. Employers are not entitled to that information. So I don’t see an auto-generated excommunication list in the forseeable future…at least not based on what coverage the employees choose to use or not use. Even in the article, the diocese said that people would have to volunteer the information in order for the diocese to act on it.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Yes, they could do that, but then they would have no way to control what policies the employees will choose and what will be covered. If they provide a fund for each employee to purchase their own insurance, the employee can build their own policy and pick and choose what kind of coverage they want. And considering over 90% of Catholics are using contraceptives, it would be no different, except that sterilizations and abortions could be added to the policy as well.
I guess they’re not fighting that hard for it because they know that a suppelmental could have always been purchased by the employee all along to cover contraceptives (or any other services not approved by the diocese) by the employee him/herself anyway. IIRC, I believe you can add riders and pay for the extra coverage out of your own pocket.

And, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you can get contraception at PP for free or reduced cost if you can prove you can’t afford to buy it from the pharmacy…one of my friends was getting her contraceptives from PP for free because she was under a certain earnings bracket. I don’t know if that’s regional or across the states, or if that’s changed, but I don’t see why it would change.

Contraception is not that expensive. It’s like $20-50 a month. That’s less than one of my own presciptions that I have to pay for out of pocket. There are so many different brands of contraceptives that the cost to those taking them has to be competitive.

Nonsense, there is a big difference between the Church making contraception and abortion available through an insurance plan and each individual Catholic making a personal choice. The Church is required to teach right from wrong but is in no way in a position to, nor is it required to enforce individual choice. The Church must reject all state requirements to provide such services regardless what material consequences it might incur. In fact the best way to bring this activity to a close might be to get it into the courts.

 

[Rence]

Nonsense, there is a big difference between the Church making contraception and abortion available through an insurance plan and each individual Catholic making a personal choice.

Hey, I completely agree with you. I think they should do just that. But it would be a lot more expensive that way. Individual plans are very expensive. When an entity purchases a group plan, the premiums can significantly less the cost because discounts are given to bulk purchases. If you think that their own insurance was costly, and they couldn’t afford it and had to go back to the state, imagine what individual insurance would cost. They wouldn’t be able to pull it off either. They tried with ‘their own’ insurance and couldn’t afford it.

The Church is required to teach right from wrong but is in no way in a position to, nor is it required to enforce individual choice.

Exactly, I agree with you here too. But I’m sure a lot of people would disagree. Just because the benefit is offered doesn’t mean the employee will use it. The issue is that the prescription plan also includes contraceptives, not that the Church is paying for contraceptives outright. Contraceptives are included in the prescription plan of the policy. Most companies’ prescription plans include contraceptives.

The Church must reject all state requirements to provide such services regardless what material consequences it might incur. In fact the best way to bring this activity to a close might be to get it into the courts.

Yes, they can try that too.

 

[irishpatrick]

Yes, they could do that, but then they would have no way to control what policies the employees will choose and what will be covered. If they provide a fund for each employee to purchase their own insurance, the employee can build their own policy and pick and choose what kind of coverage they want. And considering over 90% of Catholics are using contraceptives, it would be no different, except that sterilizations and abortions could be added to the policy as well.

I guess they’re not fighting that hard for it because they know that a suppelmental could have always been purchased by the employee all along to cover contraceptives (or any other services not approved by the diocese) by the employee him/herself anyway. IIRC, I believe you can add riders and pay for the extra coverage out of your own pocket.

And, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you can get contraception at PP for free or reduced cost if you can prove you can’t afford to buy it from the pharmacy…one of my friends was getting her contraceptives from PP for free because she was under a certain earnings bracket. I don’t know if that’s regional or across the states, or if that’s changed, but I don’t see why it would change.

Contraception is not that expensive. It’s like $20-50 a month. That’s less than one of my own presciptions that I have to pay for out of pocket. There are so many different brands of contraceptives that the cost to those taking them has to be competitive.

The thing to keep in mind is that if the Diocese created a fund, than how the people used that fund would not be the fault of the Diocese. In that case the Diocese would be clean because it cannot control what individual Catholics choose to do.

 

[irishpatrick]

Nonsense, there is a big difference between the Church making contraception and abortion available through an insurance plan and each individual Catholic making a personal choice. The Church is required to teach right from wrong but is in no way in a position to, nor is it required to enforce individual choice. The Church must reject all state requirements to provide such services regardless what material consequences it might incur. In fact the best way to bring this activity to a close might be to get it into the courts.

The Church will lose in the courts. It nearly always does…not worth the money and time. The diocese should setup a fund equal to the amount it would contribute to each employee to carry insurance, and than let each employee secure their own insurance. That keeps the Dioceses true to the faith, and it gets the Diocese around tthe new laws and it places the responsibility to be faithful to the faith into each employeee’s hands. It is, imo, the only logical solution.

I do agree that it will cost the employees more.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Hey, I completely agree with you. I think they should do just that. But it would be a lot more expensive that way. Individual plans are very expensive. When an entity purchases a group plan, the premiums can significantly less the cost because discounts are given to bulk purchases. If you think that their own insurance was costly, and they couldn’t afford it and had to go back to the state, imagine what individual insurance would cost. They wouldn’t be able to pull it off either. They tried with ‘their own’ insurance and couldn’t afford it.

Exactly, I agree with you here too. But I’m sure a lot of people would disagree. Just because the benefit is offered doesn’t mean the employee will use it. The issue is that the prescription plan also includes contraceptives, not that the Church is paying for contraceptives outright. Contraceptives are included in the prescription plan of the policy. Most companies’ prescription plans include contraceptives.

Yes, they can try that too.

The cost of the plans is far less important that obeying God’s commandments. Making those plans available through the Church is tantamount to placing the employees in the occasion of sin. I know compassion is a strong emotion but I’d hate to stand at the final judgment and try to pass through on the arguments you present. Stand our ground and force the issue into the courts.