Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

[seekerz]

I would reverse the questions and ask – have you? Do you know how you mind and body is going to react to the stress? There have been countless cases where people have been in wrecks or other traumatic situations and refused transport to later find them in the hospital. This really proves nothing…

After a wreck are you required to PROVE that your life was in danger?

 

[kelvinf]

I don’t recall ever placing blame on anyone – I was only pointing out how irrelevant it is – the fact is Zimmerman’s actions may have been poor judgment – but not illegal.

I find it interesting that people are contesting that the mere fact that Zimmerman followed him makes him solely to blame for the crime – ignoring the fact that Martin may very well have made it a physical altercation. As a matter of fact – even by the girlfriends account, Martin made it a verbal altercation. Yet is seems everyone wants to say it was all Zimmerman – let’s pretend just for a minute that Zimmerman was just headed home – which happened to be in the same direction and was confronted by Martin – would he still be to blame? Or is the mere fact that he called 9-11 first make him the predator?

If Zimmerman was heading home and was profiled and attacked by let’s just say Martin, then Martin in that case would clearly be the aggressor for attacking someone who was merely heading home and doing nothing wrong.

Now coming back to the case in question, you are ignoring key concerns here. A boy who wasn’t doing anything wrong was profiled, flagged, called names for absolutely no reason. (Why do you ignore all these?) He was then trailed and ended up dead.

This is what people are really concerned about.(!)

There was this other guy who called 911 and still killed someone while videotaping the whole stuff as evidence for SYG. Do people do crazy things? Yes, they do!

 

[seekerz]

I don’t recall ever placing blame on anyone – I was only pointing out how irrelevant it is – the fact is Zimmerman’s actions may have been poor judgment – but not illegal.

I find it interesting that people are contesting that the mere fact that Zimmerman followed him makes him solely to blame for the crime – ignoring the fact that Martin may very well have made it a physical altercation. As a matter of fact – even by the girlfriends account, Martin made it a verbal altercation. Yet is seems everyone wants to say it was all Zimmerman – let’s pretend just for a minute that Zimmerman was just headed home – which happened to be in the same direction and was confronted by Martin – would he still be to blame? Or is the mere fact that he called 9-11 first make him the predator?

He instigated interaction with Trayvon based on the suspicions in his head. He pursued him with an intent on making sure that the ‘suspect’ (of what, God only knows) did not get away. Whatever happened subsequent to him assuming the role of law enforcement is SOLELY his responsibility.

 

[seekerz]

THe Florida Stand Your Ground law protects people who can reasonably prove that their actions were done in self-defense from any criminal or civil litigation. He did that, which is why he was released. He is being charged with murder now for no other reason than politics. My guess is that he is going to be found no-guilty by reason of Self Defense, in which case he will sue the pants off the state of Florida for violation his rights under the Stand Your Ground statute.

Self defense from what? His own extreme stupidity?

 

[kelvinf]

The fact that this is the most logical conclusion you could come up with speaks volumes…

Speaks what volumes? What then were you trying to insinuate? Someone caused this whole ordeal and it’s either Zimmerman or Martin. We unequivocally say it was Zimmerman who initiated this ordeal.

 

[scipio337]

…Now coming back to the case in question, you are ignoring key concerns here. A boy who wasn’t doing anything wrong was profiled, flagged, called names for absolutely no reason. (Why do you ignore all these?) He was then trailed and ended up dead.

How was he profiled? What names was he called?? He was “flagged” as “suspicious” in an area that had some crime as the recent past.

I understand that Martin wasn’t doing anything wrong, but how does being thought of as “suspicious” or having someone call 911 because they consider you so a crime?

I would point out that Martin had called 911 on the past for the same reasons. Right or wrong, none of those ended in any kind of physical altercation.

kelvinf:

This is what people are really concerned about.(!)

There was this other guy who called 911 and still killed someone while videotaping the whole stuff as evidence for SYG. Do people do crazy things? Yes, they do!

That person deliberately started the confrontation. We don’t know if Zimmerman did that. Or is following someone, considering them suspicious and calling 911 justifiable for assault?

 

[scipio337]

Speaks what volumes? What then were you trying to insinuate? Someone caused this whole ordeal and it’s either Zimmerman or Martin. We unequivocally say it was Zimmerman who initiated this ordeal.

How did he “initiate the ordeal” in your opinion. Following someone or calling 911 isn’t a crime, nor is it grounds for assault. As everyone has pointed out, Zimmerman did some stupid things, but not one of them were illegal.

At some point, this incident turned into a physical altercation. That was the chain of events that led to the shooting. The person who initiated the physical altercation is the one to blame. At this point, I’m not convinced Zimmerman did that.

 

[mtbender]

If Zimmerman was heading home and was profiled and attacked by let’s just say Martin, then Martin in that case would clearly be the aggressor for attacking someone who was merely heading home and doing nothing wrong.

So what makes Zimmerman the bad guy than is that he thought Martin was suspicious - merely following him is not the issue?

Now coming back to the case in question, you are ignoring key concerns here. A boy who wasn’t doing anything wrong was profiled, flagged, called names for absolutely no reason. (Why do you ignore all these?) He was then trailed and ended up dead.

I don’t ignore any of those - but none of those indicate that Zimmerman could not have acted in self defense… And none of them would justify Martin becoming physical as Zimmerman claims. Again we don’t know who hit who first for sure - and that is where the focus should be.

This is what people are really concerned about.(!)

There was this other guy who called 911 and still killed someone while videotaping the whole stuff as evidence for SYG. Do people do crazy things? Yes, they do!

Yes they do, but people quickly dismiss the fact that Martin may have in fact hit Zimmerman as he claimed? Or does that statement only hold true when it can further your argument?

 

[seekerz]

Sanford Police Det. Chris Serino told Zimmerman in a series of interviews that day that he was a “good guy,” but that there were holes in his story, including minor injuries that did not match the beating he said he received at the hands of a “child” who carried candy.

I would have thought that, that’s beyond reasonable doubt. He claimed Martin kept punching his face (“he just kept punching my face and my head…”), and bashing his head several times on the concrete (while he did nothing).

I find it hard to understand why anybody would 1. support that Zimmerman’s (minor) injuries match his description. 2. support his claim of killing this boy.

Exactly. While details on what happened that night are not all independently verifiable, his story (and subsequent events) paint the picture of a practiced, if not particularly competent, liar.

The kid attacks you without a weapon - you’re not even claiming he charged at you with the broken bottle or something…He holds you down, covers your mouth and nose, beats your head into the concrete, reaches for the gun (which he knew was there by some sort of ESP?) and suddenly you gather your wits and gain the upper hand long enough to shoot such a skilled, many-handed attacker?

Seriously, now. I could swallow it if he admits they were fighting, rather than claiming he was being beaten up - but then that might mess up his SYG defense…

 

[mtbender]

He instigated interaction with Trayvon based on the suspicions in his head. He pursued him with an intent on making sure that the ‘suspect’ (of what, God only knows) did not get away. Whatever happened subsequent to him assuming the role of law enforcement is SOLELY his responsibility.

I am glad you know his intent… as much as I try I have been unable to read his mind…

Could it be his intent was to see what direction he was going to report it to the police?

Does that make him culpable for anything Martin does? If Martin decided to take a hostage would Zimmerman still be the bad guy?

Whatever happened subsequent to him assuming the role of law enforcement is SOLELY his responsibility.

Are police then solely responsible for the actions of those they pursue then? Martin lost all responsibilities based solely on the fact that someone was following him?

 

[seekerz]

I am glad you know his intent… as much as I try I have been unable to read his mind…

No need to read his mind: he told the dispatcher he found Travyon suspicious but provided no clear reason why, therefore the suspicions were in his head. Unless the dispatcher can read minds…

Could it be his intent was to see what direction he was going to report it to the police?

Could be. But his statements to the dispatcher suggest that he was intent on seeing that this one did not get away like those others who “always got away”.

Does that make him culpable for anything Martin does? If Martin decided to take a hostage would Zimmerman still be the bad guy?

No it would not make him culpable if Martin did something wrong, but we have no independent indication that Martins DID anything wrong. All we have is the word of a person who has subsequently shown himself to be deceptive under stressful situations.

Are police then solely responsible for the actions of those they pursue then? Martin lost all responsibilities based solely on the fact that someone was following him?

Not applicable. Zimmerman was not the police. By following Martin in the dark without identifying himself, Zimmerman presented himself as a potential threat to a boy who had every bit as much a right to stand his ground as anyone else in Florida.

 

[scipio337]

…Could be. But his statements to the dispatcher suggest that he was intent on seeing that this one did not get away like those others who “always got away”.

That intent on “seeing this one did not get away” could have been as simple as following him.

I note in the other that “always got away”, Zimmerman never initiated any physical contact, or did he?

seekerz:

… By following Martin in the dark without identifying himself, Zimmerman presented himself as a potential threat to a boy who had every bit as much a right to stand his ground as anyone else in Florida.

I asked this question before, I will ask it again:

is following someone, thinking they are suspicious, or calling 911 justification for physical assault?

 

[vz71]

By following Martin in the dark without identifying himself, Zimmerman presented himself as a potential threat to a boy who had every bit as much a right to stand his ground as anyone else in Florida.

Something as simple as following is now a threat.

BUT only if it is done by Zimmerman.

You see, earlier in this thread the these same individuals that have determined Zimmerman’s guilt were claiming that the broken nose and head wounds were not enough to cause one to fear for their life.

So following someone is a threat, but breaking someone’s nose is not.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Self defense from what? His own extreme stupidity?

Self defense from having his head pounded into ground meat by Treyvon Martin.

 

[mtbender]

No need to read his mind: he told the dispatcher he found Travyon suspicious but provided no clear reason why, therefore the suspicions were in his head. Unless the dispatcher can read minds…

you stated:

He pursued him with an intent on making sure that the ‘suspect’ (of what, God only knows) did not get away.

I am just saying that I have no way of knowing his intent -

Could be. But his statements to the dispatcher suggest that he was intent on seeing that this one did not get away like those others who “always got away”.

Suggest frustration to me but certainly does not make intent clear…

No it would not make him culpable if Martin did something wrong, but we have no independent indication that Martins DID anything wrong. All we have is the word of a person who has subsequently shown himself to be deceptive under stressful situations.

We also have nothing to independently verify Martin did not… Zimmerman’s word aside, there is also some physical evidence that would suggest Martin may have turned this into a physical altercation…

Not applicable. Zimmerman was not the police. By following Martin in the dark without identifying himself, Zimmerman presented himself as a potential threat to a boy who had every bit as much a right to stand his ground as anyone else in Florida.

I am not the one who brought up law enforcement -
Potential threat does not mean much - anything can be a potential threat. Would anyone walking behind you in the dark now be a potential threat and therefore you could assault them? The Stand Your Ground law allows you to meet force with force - not use force because someone might use force against you.

 

[seekerz]

is following someone, thinking they are suspicious, or calling 911 justification for physical assault?

The former is stupidity in the extreme, especially at night, but neither is that, nor calling 911, justification for physical assault.

So I agree, Zimmerman calling 911 or following Trayvon, was not in itself justification for him to assault Trayvon or for Trayvon to assault him. What actually transpired, we don’t know, because all we have is the word of a person who has the most to gain from lying…

 

[seekerz]

Something as simple as following is now a threat.

BUT only if it is done by Zimmerman.

You see, earlier in this thread the these same individuals that have determined Zimmerman’s guilt were claiming that the broken nose and head wounds were not enough to cause one to fear for their life.

So following someone is a threat, but breaking someone’s nose is not.

Following someone at night presents a potential threat, especially to a minor. IF someone’s nose was broken that night, it would be an injury - inflicted how or by whom, I really can’t say.

 

[seekerz]

Self defense from having his head pounded into ground meat by Treyvon Martin.

While Zimmerman just lay there and thought happy thoughts? Truly Leno-worthy material…
If that is really how it happened then let me add another adjective: insanely extreme stupidity.

 

[scipio337]

The former is stupidity in the extreme, especially at night, but neither is that, nor calling 911, justification for physical assault.

So I agree, Zimmerman calling 911 or following Trayvon, was not in itself justification for him to assault Trayvon or for Trayvon to assault him. What actually transpired, we don’t know, because all we have is the word of a person who has the most to gain from lying…

“the most to gain from lying”? He also has the most to lose by lying, too.

It boils down to one thing for me: either Travon Martin escalated this incident to a physical altercation, or George Zimmerman did.

The person who escalated it is responsible for the events that followed. The appeal to emotion of “racism” and “profiling” blah, blah, blah are immaterial at that point.

I hope we find out during this trial, and I hope all sides can accept the outcome.

 

[seekerz]

you stated:
I am just saying that I have no way of knowing his intent -

Suggest frustration to me but certainly does not make intent clear…

We also have nothing to independently verify Martin did not… Zimmerman’s word aside, there is also some physical evidence that would suggest Martin may have turned this into a physical altercation…

Where is the evidence to suggest that Martin may have turned this into a physical altercation?