Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

[seekerz]

You, nor I, know the mindset of Martin at the time. We also don’t know enough detail about what Zimmerman was doing. You paint the picture of Martin being chased by a man with a gun (presupposing that Martin knew he had a gun…he wouldn’t, unless Zimmerman told him or was brandishing the gun). You are adding detail that we don’t have.

We don’t know if he knew about the gun or not. But if we assume Zimmerman’s story is true, then by his own recollection Martin did know about the gun. I have no details on when he learned of its existence, but if I had to rely on pure commonsense, it would likely have to be at some point before he was engrossed in banging someone’s head into the concrete with both hands (unless he had eyes in the back of his head). So, even if I played devil’s advocate here, and accepted the story of one party to the altercation, I would be forced to assume that Martin did know he was being chased/confronted by a man with a gun…

 

[seekerz]

Your posts ooze with assumption. I guess its easier for you to see it in other posters’ offerings, without recognizing it in your own.

Point out one of my ‘oozing’ assumptions, if you will…

 

[estesbob]

We don’t know if he knew about the gun or not. But if we assume Zimmerman’s story is true, then by his own recollection Martin did know about the gun. I have no details on when he learned of its existence, but if I had to rely on pure commonsense, it would likely have to be at some point before he was engrossed in banging someone’s head into the concrete with both hands (unless he had eyes in the back of his head). So, even if I played devil’s advocate here, and accepted the story of one party to the altercation, I would be forced to assume that Martin did know he was being chased/confronted by a man with a gun…

Irrelevant whether Martin knew he had a gun. Again all that is relevant is was Zimmerman allowed to use lethal force if he felt his life was in danger.

 

[rlg94086]

Point out one of my ‘oozing’ assumptions, if you will…

Nah…I think they are pretty evident to most people, and I don’t feel the need to collect a bunch of your posts and make a case. You can excuse it as baseless accusation, if you like. I don’t really care.

 

[seekerz]

Irrelevant whether Martin knew he had a gun. Again all that is relevant is was Zimmerman allowed to use lethal force if he felt his life was in danger.

Is it also irrelevant whether Martin felt his life was in danger?

 

[kelvinf]

Irrelevant whether Martin knew he had a gun. Again all that is relevant is was Zimmerman allowed to use lethal force if he felt his life was in danger.

You keep omitting that it was Zimmerman who left his car and followed Martin despising the order not to follow Martin.(!) This disobedience led to Martin’s death.

 

[estesbob]

You keep omitting that it was Zimmerman who left his car and followed Martin despising the order not to follow Martin.(!) This disobedience led to Martin’s death.

You must not be reading my posts, Yes Zimmerman left his car, yes he followed Martin, Yes he had a gun-none of those acts are illegal-stupid and unnecessary in my opinion but he had just as much right to be on the street as Martin did. Again it all comes down to was Zimmerman allowed to use lethal force once Martin had him n the ground and was beating him? I think the answer is clearly yes.

 

[rlg94086]

You keep omitting that it was Zimmerman who left his car and followed Martin despising the order not to follow Martin.(!) This disobedience led to Martin’s death.

I don’t think it was “an order.” IIRC, they said “we don’t need you to follow him.” He didn’t break any laws by following him. He apparently thought Martin was a potential threat to the community and didn’t want to lose him before the police arrived.

 

[seekerz]

Nah…I think they are pretty evident to most people, and I don’t feel the need to collect a bunch of your posts and make a case. You can excuse it as baseless accusation, if you like. I don’t really care.

So now instead of discussing Zimmerman, you’d rather discuss me? I’d suggest returning to the topic at hand.

 

[estesbob]

Is it also irrelevant whether Martin felt his life was in danger?

If Martin had killed Zimmerman it would clearly be relevant. But the if Martin thought his life was in danger that does not mean Zimmerman had to endure any beating Martin wanted to give him.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t think it was “an order.” IIRC, they said “we don’t need you to follow him.” He didn’t break any laws by following him. He apparently thought Martin was a potential threat to the community and didn’t want to lose him before the police arrived.

Also a police dispatcher can not legally order anyone to do anything.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I never denied that God had a role in it. What I said was, when in doubt blame God. I can think of any number of tragedies and daily loss of life where people would be outraged if anyone were to suggest that what played out was God’s will. Just because God may not intervene directly in a sequence of events, DOES NOT make the events God’s will.

Zimmerman isn’t “blaming” God. He was ackowledging that God has a plan for this, even if he (Zimmerman) doesn’t know what the details of that plan are.

 

[seekerz]

Again it all comes down to was Zimmerman allowed to use lethal force once Martin had him n the ground and was beating him? I think the answer is clearly yes.

I think the answer is clearly, we don’t know who was on the ground OR who was beating who. Regardless, both the man and the kid had equal right to use deadly force to defend themselves.

 

[kelvinf]

You must not be reading my posts, Yes Zimmerman left his car, yes he followed Martin, Yes he had a gun-none of those acts are illegal-stupid and unnecessary in my opinion but he had just as much right to be on the street as Martin did. Again it all comes down to was Zimmerman allowed to use lethal force once Martin had him n the ground and was beating him? I think the answer is clearly yes.

Yes, you keep omitting the possibility that Martin felt threaten by Zimmerman and stood his grounds…Yeah, we know just Zimmerman’s version of the ordeal…But he has proven to be incredible.

 

[seekerz]

Zimmerman isn’t “blaming” God. He was ackowledging that God has a plan for this, even if he (Zimmerman) doesn’t know what the details of that plan are.

God gave us the details of His plan for all human life long ago: He commands that we respect it.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I think the answer is clearly, we don’t know who was on the ground OR who was beating who. Regardless, both the man and the kid had equal right to use deadly force to defend themselves.

All of the disclosed evidence corroborates Zimmerman’s story, that Martin was on top of Zimmerman throwing him a beating. There has been nothing come out that contradicts that.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

God gave us the details of His plan for all human life long ago: He commands that we respect it.

Yes, particularly our own. The Catholic Church clearly teaches that we are allowed to use deadly force to protect our life and the lives of those around us when it is threatened.

 

[seekerz]

If Martin had killed Zimmerman it would clearly be relevant. But the if Martin thought his life was in danger that does not mean Zimmerman had to endure any beating Martin wanted to give him.

And because he’s dead, his right to defend himself is irrelevant? Priceless.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And because he’s dead, his right to defend himself is irrelevant? Priceless.

Holding someone down and beating their head in the ground doesn’t qualify as self-defense in any court of law or under any reasonable definition.

 

[seekerz]

Yes, particularly our own. The Catholic Church clearly teaches that we are allowed to use deadly force to protect our life and the lives of those around us when it is threatened.

Particularly our own? In what Bible or Catechism book did you find that nugget?