There are 78 people that saw the struggle?
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kelvinf
Guest
That was a (new) paragraph on it’s own. And I only said that there are 78 witnesses in general and not that 78 people saw the ordeal.
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mtbender
Guest
I am not sure how this isn’t plausible with Zimmerman’s story? 44 seconds to a minute is not a long time – and with a well placed punch, there may very well not have been much Zimmerman could have done aside from yell and when the opportunity presented itself defend his life. To question this without any fact is pointless – we can say he didn’t resist – but just because he did not leave makes on Martin did not mean he didn’t try to protect himself…Really? When the prosecutor charged Zimmerman with second degree murder, she herself reiterated that: “Remember, the prosecutor’s burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.”
Prosecutor Corey Announce Charges Against Zimmerman 06:34 - 06:47. And I have admitted before that she has a tough job to do. They did a thorough investigation and wouldn’t have charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder if they can’t prove it. Are we aware of all the evidence they have?
Again, as to who as on top, different witnesses say different things.
We know that the prosecutor has about 78 witnesses in this case in general. We just have to wait and see.
For me, I question why Zimmerman didn’t put up any physical resistance, if his version is true. If Trayvon mainly sustained just the gun shot wound, and if Zimmerman was the one crying for help, I seriously question why he wasn’t fighting back. Do you seriously think that Trayvon could completely overpower Zimmerman?
Trayvon was 5 feet, 11 inches tall and weighed 158 pounds while Zimmerman is 5’8" and weights 185 pounds or 5’7" and weights 200 pounds (different sources). I don’t understand Imperial units but I can logically conclude that Trayvon was somewhat taller than Zimmerman while weighs more than Trayvon.
So Trayvon did all these things: punched Zimmerman on the face, grounded Zimmerman, repeatedly bashed Zimmerman’s head against the pavement… while all Zimmerman did was to cry out for help before finally shooting Trayvon?
The first caller called at 7:16:11. The gun shot was heard at 7:16:55 (i.e. 44 secs into the call). So the yelling for help lasted for at least 44 secs. ‘At least’ because we don’t know how long the caller took to initiate the call and exactly when the confrontation started. The second caller said she called immediately after hearing the gun shot. She called at 7:17:08; meaning she took 13 secs to make the call or the call took 13 secs to go through (whatever). Let’s assume that this 13 secs also applies to the first caller meaning that the beating (still based on Z’s version) lasted for at least 57 secs. That’s close to a minute (and we still don’t know when it started but we are certain of the mininum 44 secs and maximum 1 min 55 secs duration) and all Zimmerman could do was to shoot Travyon? Since that was the only injury he sustained as a result of Zimmerman’s action.
Taking all these into consideration, it’s just impossible for me to believe that Trayvon was able to beat Zimmerman for at least 44 secs up to 1 min 55 secs while the only thing Zimmerman could do was to yell before finally shooting Trayvon.
On the contrary, what I see is a justifiable charge with 2nd degree murder and he bears the burden of proof if he offers affirmative defense. And I don’t see how one can buy it.
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PS: Zimmerman hung up at 7:15. That’s how I calculated the 1 min 55 secs maximum duration.
But he couldn’t overpower Travyon in getting the gun.
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seekerz
Guest
Didn’t the police have the option of simply knocking on her parents’ door? If the delay damages any credibility, I can’t see why it is simply that of the witness and not that of the investigating police department. But obviously, you’re seeing something that I’m not.That would have been me. I question the credibility of someone that waits to come forward. I don’t know how long she waited, but I do know that a full month later, the police were still waiting for her to come in and make a statement.
Now I am sure they could have stated that she was a material witness and arrested her, brought her in and questioned her. But other than that, you can’t force someone to come in.
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seekerz
Guest
Great post! Those who think that proving ‘intent to kill’ will be difficult, seem to be forgetting that Zimmerman is claiming self-defense - not an accidental shooting. HE has to prove that self defense measures were justified and with this story, I wish him luck. There’s too much that makes absolutely no sense, such as these points you raise.Really? When the prosecutor charged Zimmerman with second degree murder, she herself reiterated that: “Remember, the prosecutor’s burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.”
Prosecutor Corey Announce Charges Against Zimmerman 06:34 - 06:47. And I have admitted before that she has a tough job to do. They did a thorough investigation and wouldn’t have charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder if they can’t prove it. Are we aware of all the evidence they have?
Again, as to who as on top, different witnesses say different things.
We know that the prosecutor has about 78 witnesses in this case in general. We just have to wait and see.
For me, I question why Zimmerman didn’t put up any physical resistance, if his version is true. If Trayvon mainly sustained just the gun shot wound, and if Zimmerman was the one crying for help, I seriously question why he wasn’t fighting back. Do you seriously think that Trayvon could completely overpower Zimmerman?
Trayvon was 5 feet, 11 inches tall and weighed 158 pounds while Zimmerman is 5’8" and weights 185 pounds or 5’7" and weights 200 pounds (different sources). I don’t understand Imperial units but I can logically conclude that Trayvon was somewhat taller than Zimmerman while weighs more than Trayvon.
So Trayvon did all these things: punched Zimmerman on the face, grounded Zimmerman, repeatedly bashed Zimmerman’s head against the pavement… while all Zimmerman did was to cry out for help before finally shooting Trayvon?
The first caller called at 7:16:11. The gun shot was heard at 7:16:55 (i.e. 44 secs into the call). So the yelling for help lasted for at least 44 secs. ‘At least’ because we don’t know how long the caller took to initiate the call and exactly when the confrontation started. The second caller said she called immediately after hearing the gun shot. She called at 7:17:08; meaning she took 13 secs to make the call or the call took 13 secs to go through (whatever). Let’s assume that this 13 secs also applies to the first caller meaning that the beating (still based on Z’s version) lasted for at least 57 secs. That’s close to a minute (and we still don’t know when it started but we are certain of the mininum 44 secs and maximum 1 min 55 secs duration) and all Zimmerman could do was to shoot Travyon? Since that was the only injury he sustained as a result of Zimmerman’s action.
Taking all these into consideration, it’s just impossible for me to believe that Trayvon was able to beat Zimmerman for at least 44 secs up to 1 min 55 secs while the only thing Zimmerman could do was to yell before finally shooting Trayvon.
On the contrary, what I see is a justifiable charge with 2nd degree murder and he bears the burden of proof if he offers affirmative defense. And I don’t see how one can buy it.
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PS: Zimmerman hung up at 7:15. That’s how I calculated the 1 min 55 secs maximum duration.
But he couldn’t overpower Travyon in getting the gun.
Personally, I also have difficulties with these injuries that supposedly prove a beating. In my, if someone experienced headbanging to the extent of fearing for his life, their first trip (or at the very least, their second) would be to the hospital - both to rule out internal head injuries with xrays or scans, and to document how severe the ‘beating’ had been.
A few bruises on someone’s head, and even a broken nose, do not prove anything other than a violent altercation: not who instigated what, not who feared for whose life…nothing. As for what was documented AFTER the fateful night, let’s just say anybody can make the injuries from a scuffle look like a ‘beating’ given enough time…Particularly if that body has shown himself skilled enough to make his access to tens of thousands of dollars translate into virtual destitution.
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seekerz
Guest
This was actually the post I meant to quote previously. I’ll add one observation: if a jury swallows that line about not being able to remember the name of one of his neighborhood’s three streets, then hopefully there is some statute under which he can be charged with criminal negligence for being a totally incompetent neighborhood watch person! What did he report to police when on watch duty: "break-in in progress at uh, whatitsname street - fourth house from the corner…excuse me while I get out and follow the suspect through the window to ask him the address…?Apparently, there are other interesting things I -](we)/-] missed.
I am just going to list some of them:
Apparently, Zimmerman admitted to being on top of Trayvon (at some point):
During the videotaped voice stress test, he seemed to suggest that he wasn’t sure he had hit Martin when he fired his gun, saying that he “thought that he heard the shot and he was giving up” and that he pushed Martin off of him.
"Either way, I ended up on top of him, straddling him," he said, but he claimed he “felt like (Martin) was hitting me with something in his hands” so he grabbed the youth’s hands to restrain him. Martin was saying something like “ah, ah,” and cursing, Zimmerman said, and he told him, “Stop. Don’t move.”
Just too weird. Or do you understand that piece? You shot someone at point-blank but ain’t sure you shot him. (And he said somewhere that he aimed the gun at him.[1]) Then you straddle him…(?)
And the investigator expresses doubt that Zimmerman, who had lived in the neighborhood for three years and described himself as head of the neighborhood watch, did not know the names of the three streets in the subdivision.
“To be honest with you, I have a bad memory anyway,” Zimmerman said, adding that he has attention-deficit (hyperactivity) disorder and takes medication for it.
articles.cnn.com/2012-06-21/justice/justice_florida-teen-shooting_1_police-interview-shooting-audio-interviews/3?_s=PM:JUSTICE
If he has a bad memory, what are the other things he can’t get straight?
“and I grabbed my gun and aimed it at him and fired one shot. He kind of sat back and said, ‘You got me, you got it,’ or something like that. And I thought he was saying that he heard the shot and that he was giving up. So I pushed him off me. I don’t remember if I pushed him off me…”
wltz.com/story/18849587/new-zimmerman-material-released
Seems like he initially told investigators he wasn’t following Martin and that** he went out of his car to get an address**…
He was in fear although he got out to follow Trayvon…
clickorlando.com/news/New-evidence-video-released-in-George-Zimmerman-case/-/1637132/15187548/-/np1nkc/-/index.html?treets=orlpn&tml=orlpn_break&ts=T&tmi=orlpn_break_1_06350106212012
He said Martin covered his nose with one hand and he could barely breath while Martin used the other hand to cover his mouth. But interestingly, he was still able to cry out loud for help…
miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/v-fullstory/2860569/zimmerman-told-police-trayvon.html
“When I slid, my jacket and my shirt came up. …** I felt his hand go down my side**, and I thought he was going for my firearm, so I grabbed it immediately, and as he banged my head again, I just pulled out my firearm and shot him.”
articles.cnn.com/2012-06-21/justice/justice_florida-teen-shooting_1_police-interview-shooting-audio-interviews?_s=PM:JUSTICE
Building on this video[1], apparently, Trayvon took one hand off his mouth and went for the gun with that hand. So how was Trayvon able to bang his head again with a single hand (that was supposedly still on his nose)?
He clearly has questions to answer and that’s why he has rightly been charged with 2nd degree murder and I believe we will know more during the trial.
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Dawnia
Guest
It depends on the type of phone she had. Contact info isn’t always available with pre-paid phones.
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Dawnia
Guest
I would believe him on not knowing the names of the streets. Lived 20 years in my hometown and still don’t know street names. Except the 3 streets…the one in our address & the two main roads. Don’t need to know the names if I know where I’m going.
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child_of_God85
Guest
Yeah, well then explain all the witnesses coming forward and claiming he is a racist. Fellow former employees AND a family member. This Family member also says he repeadedly molested her through childhood. Only reason she has finally come forward is because for the first time she feels safe. Sorry, but I’ve believed all along it was a race crime. The real victim is dead, he’ll never have a chance to grow up or do something with his life. George Zimmerman needs to go to prison for what he did, and the evidence is overwhelingly against him.
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myome
Guest
Finding someone guilty on such anecdotal evidence is beyond me. doesn’t remember streets, therefore, he has to be guilty. That is not justice but a preconceived conviction.
The evidence indicates much more then just ‘a few bruises’ on the back of his head.
This case has been plagued from the beginning with people simply making up evidence or ignoring evidence completely. If we are to have a rational discussion of the events we should stick to the facts.
Bruises may not make someone fear for their life.
But the wounds on the back of Zimmerman’s head indicate much more.
I am sure a good lawyer would point out to the jury that most people do not know all the street names in their neighborhood.
And the fact that he does not remember supports his claim that he was out of his car looking for an address from a mailbox or house.
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scipio337
Guest
We should accept your vast knowledge of the case, superior reasoning, and access to the internets, or the FBI agents who actually interviewed Zimmerman’s friends, colleagues and family members?
guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/12/george-zimmerman-not-racist-fbi
news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fbi-interviews-crime-scene-photos-other-evidence-released-154730328.html
Shameful to make such allegations. Here’s 284 pages of the investigation that have been released publicly:
l.yimg.com/dh/ap/default/120712/zimmerman.pdf
I suggest you do some research and base your conclusions on something other than hearsay and innuendo.
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seekerz
Guest
Are you in the neighborhood watch? This was a man who REGULARLY called police to report suspicious activity as part of his routine duties. Besides, you still managed to learn the name of 3 streets. Can’t see how he could have avoided learning that many.I would believe him on not knowing the names of the streets. Lived 20 years in my hometown and still don’t know street names. Except the 3 streets…the one in our address & the two main roads. Don’t need to know the names if I know where I’m going.
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seekerz
Guest
Did you see me declaring him guilty based on his poor knowledge of the neighborhood he reportedly watched? No, I simply suggested that a jury would be slightly deranged to BELIEVE he didn’t know 3 street names that he patrolled regularly. It’s called credibility, not culpability.
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seekerz
Guest
The more serious the injuries, the less sense it makes that he wasn’t immediately taken to an ER.
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maryjk
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You can’t force someone to go to the ER. They offered to take him, he said no.
It happens. I refused once after a car accident. Was it smart? No. But it was my choice.
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rlg94086
Guest
He’s being tried for Murder in the 2nd degree. He doesn’t have to “prove” self defense. He has to make a compelling case, but not prove it. To be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the prosecution has to prove their case. If the defense provides enough doubt, the jury should find him not guilty. That, of course, assumes the jury isn’t made up of people like you and child_of_God85, who have already determined his guilt before even having a trial…
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SwissGuard25
Guest
Are you serious?
Of course it was about race! He’s a racist. What because you guys are republicans you have to defend every white person in America
In all seriousness though. How could one not think it wasn’t even a little about race, I mean he probably saw thousands of white people at night, but then the one African-American shows up and he is apparently suspicious
Of course it was about race! He’s a racist. What because you guys are republicans you have to defend every white person in America
In all seriousness though. How could one not think it wasn’t even a little about race, I mean he probably saw thousands of white people at night, but then the one African-American shows up and he is apparently suspicious
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rlg94086
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FYI…by liberal standards, George Zimmerman is not white. You now look ridiculous.Are you serious?
Of course it was about race! He’s a racist. What because you guys are republicans you have to defend every white person in America?
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