Wives, Submit to your own husbands as to the Lord

[Mdybiblegal]

Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?

If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.

 

[cerad]

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat?

You can’t but that really is the whole point.

 

[buffalo]

THE AUTHORITY OF THE HUSBAND ACCORDING TO THE MAGISTERIUM

 

[Dorothy]

Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?

If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.

Yes, a husband is the head of a family, but this does not mean what many think it means. It doesn’t mean that he arbitrarily bosses his wife around and that she must do whatever he wants.

If you read a bit further in the Bible you will see that it says “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the church.”

Communication and discussion is very important between husband and wife. When the Lord is first in your lives, then there will be mutual respect and deep love for one another.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?

If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.

When it comes down to it it means trust. Since you are engaged it means asking yourself do you trust this person with your life? I go to extremes with this and consider: do I trust this person to take care of me if I were incapacitated? would he care for our children properly? ect. There will be room to grow and learn greater trust but there should be a good foundation of the same values and morals for that. If you were married and wanted this I would say it’s about learning to trust your husband more. Since this is a two way street the trust should be mutual but the husband needs to be trustworthy. A man who thinks a wife’s submission has anythig to do with lording it over her has a lot to learn. It’s about laying down his life and sometimes that simply means his pride; his wife may be the one who is handy or better with money or that he needs to listen to her insight about the needs of their kids.

 

[Musician]

I’ve been married for nearly 25 years. Really, ideally, spouses should defer to each other; wives should submit to their husbands, but husbands should cherish their wives and value their (name removed by moderator)ut.
I have found through long experience that my husband does listen to my (name removed by moderator)ut and usually won’t do things he knows I don’t want him to do. There are times he does what he thinks best that I don’t agree with. I let my feelings be known and that is basically the end of it. Neither of us fuss about it and in the long run, it doesn’t really matter. I have never really thought of myself as obedient, but I guess I do obey my husband. It doesn’t bother me because he is a very reasonable person and listens carefully to what I have to say.
Also, we have a very close, wonderful relationship; when he does things I don’t like, I tend to use humor to illustrate my point. He, on the other hand, treats me like royalty, so I don’t have anything to complain about.

 

[buffalo]

Love and Respect

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Before we start - How much do you want your husband to hold back from you(the marriage)?

…I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me,…

God infused a certain nature into the man, it is not identical to the nature infused into the woman

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? …

If he treats you as a doormat he is not a husband, if you fear such treatment you are holding back from the marriage. If he offers you to be incharge of all things you should likewise refuse, because that is not marriage either

What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?

eventually it all comes out, what you think of each other. What you withhold from him, and what he withholds from you, then you know if you are married- regardless of rings and paper. Far too many arrive at this point only to find one or both did not come to the marriage properly.

If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.

ultimately you either workout a respect or no real marriage ever existed. I would encourage you to tell him you have a trust issue about this. Then you have to workout why you want to marry someone you do not trust at this level.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?

If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.

Congratulations on your engagement! Are you marrying a Catholic man? You don’t have to answer that question, but I was curious how you came to ask about the “biblical” ideal for wives on a Catholic forum. (I’m kidding) Seriously, though…try to go on an “Engaged Encounter” if you can. They have Catholic and Protestant weekends. Also, from my experience of 25 years of marriage, my greatest advice to you, as a woman/wife, is to love your husband as if he was Jesus Himself. We “obey” out of a deep longing to please our Beloved. Love, Honor and Cherish each other, and PRAY together. You’ll get through the heaviest trials and crosses if you Trust in God’s plan for your family and submit to Him. We have nine living children and the blessings have been immense-despite the hardships-or should I say* in spite* of the hardships? As I said,* be open* to God-and the blessings will far out weigh the difficulties!
My husband and I are more in love than ever…keep romance alive at all costs(that means “date nights”, even if you only have $ to share a cup of coffee at the diner)
And lastly, find a copy of the “Theology of the Body” for Beginners, by Christopher West
God Bless you both-you’re in our prayers.

 

[ac_claire]

THE AUTHORITY OF THE HUSBAND ACCORDING TO THE MAGISTERIUM

I’ve read and bookmarked this link one of the previous times you posted it.

It’s a great resource, but the OP did ask for practical, everyday advice. Any way we could truncate this document or highlight some of the key points followed by everyday examples…?

 

[agapewolf]

Submission, in this context, means: Under the mission of…

Be under the mission of your husband, whose mission is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Love is a decision to will the best for another person, which is heaven.

So you are to let your husband love you. He promises to get you to heaven, even if it kills him.

Thats what “be submissive to your husbands” means

 

[jwashu]

Yes, a husband is the head of a family, but this does not mean what many think it means. It doesn’t mean that he arbitrarily bosses his wife around and that she must do whatever he wants.

If you read a bit further in the Bible you will see that it says “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the church.”

Communication and discussion is very important between husband and wife. When the Lord is first in your lives, then there will be mutual respect and deep love for one another.

And that passage means that a husband should be willing to sacrifice, as Christ did, everything for his wife. If a person loves like that, you won’t be a door mat

Christian marriage is never 50/50, it’s always 100/100.

There are some really good books about sex and Christian marriage - Christopher West definitely comes to mind. As you and your future husband go through the marriage prep classes, I would suggest you read some books on Theology of the Body together, it will make a big difference!

Joe

 

[ac_claire]

And that passage means that a husband should be willing to sacrifice, as Christ did, everything for his wife. If a person loves like that, you won’t be a door mat

Thanks Joe and Dorothy for clarifying the husband’s (difficult) role. What about the wife’s role? How does that play out, how does she behave and treat her husband so that he naturally will want to (or be willing to) die for her?

 

[Bluegoat]

Thanks Joe and Dorothy for clarifying the husband’s (difficult) role. What about the wife’s role? How does that play out, how does she behave and treat her husband so that he naturally will want to (or be willing to) die for her?

First of all, the husband is required to behave in this way even if he doesn’t want to, and his wife does not want to or try to live up to her obligations. Each person must live up to their role, without regard to the actions of the other, so there is no “well, you didn’t submit so I will not act in a loving way.” This seems obvious to me, but I have heard people say it enough times to know it isn’t obvious to anyone.

What this looks like may differ depending on your relationship, and may change over time. It’s important that you talk about the things that are important to you as a couple before you marry - the values you want to uphold, and the direction you’d like to pursue. These things may of course change, but it’s difficult if you are starting with a really different vision. And I think, before you marry, that this is a discussion of equals, in the sense that you can say - no, I don’t see us working that way, perhaps we are not looking for the same thing.

I don’t have much to offer in day to day advice. I’ve been married five years, and on a day to day level it hasn’t really come up - perhaps those who have been married longer can help? In fact, the few big changes we have made in our plan have been more at my instigation. We both try to defer to each other and be thoughtful of each other, and at times we both just have to put up with each other.

I have known some ladies who make a point of letting the husbands set the direction, and make final decisions about issues. They feel it is important that he take that role and responsibility, and that they submit to the decision. (So for example - wife says will we home school the kids, these are the issues I can think of - husband makes final decision.)

 

[buffalo]

A man’s oxygen is respect. A woman’s is love. A man would rather live alone than be disrespected.

Love and Respect - Respect is a man’s deepest value

 

[SamH]

The key to this is in who you pick for your husband.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sam called it right.

First, you have to understand how revolutionary St. Paul’s teaching was back then. Ephesians was written at a time when women were chattel. A man could divorce his wife just by telling her three times she was divorced. They didn’t have alimony and child support in those days and few “working moms.” A woman was left at the mercy of others. Along comes Christianity and sings a new tune: Women are worthy of dignity. A man should love his wife just as his own body! Like Christ loved His Church! (He was willing to die for Her.)

This was revolutionary stuff! A man would love his wife on par with himself?

THAT is the issue. Everyone speaks of submission in that reading and they ignore the husband’s obligation in the deal.

In this day and age, be wary of a man who does not have a deep and abiding love for God and a submission to God in his own life insisting YOU follow this reading. (Learned from hard experience myself. )

It’s not one-sided.

A man who loves God and loves you like his own self will never demand you do anything that would be to your own detriment. His every “command” would be in your best interest. With a good man. Make sure you have that first. Or nothing else will go right.

When you marry, you become one flesh. You become part of your husband’s body, and he yours. Do you order your hand to do something that would hurt it? Does your hand refuse to submit to your brain? Do you think if you told your hand to wipe your eyes that your hand would think it was a doormat for complying?

I don’t mean to reduce the argument to absurdity, but that’s the way marriage SHOULD operate.

Pope John Paul II wrote a lovely encyclical on the family: Familiaris Consortio. In it he discussed the differing natures of men and women. Men by nature are more analytical. They are the head of the family. The wife is more emotional. She is the heart. Every living organism needs a head and a heart. Decisions made by the heart alone can be flaky. Decisions made by the head alone can be stone cold and cruel.

A wise couple makes the decisions with the head listening to the heart. But if there is a conflict, at the end, the head rules. There can’t be a two-headed organism in nature. They are freaks. They don’t live long. No company exists long with two CEOs. Eventually in an important dispute, one person’s decision has to be final. That’s what the church teaches. That decisions should be made together. In love for each other and for the Truth and in the light of submission to God and each other.

The word doormat is nowhere in there.

If your fiance doesn’t appear to live up to any of these requirements, don’t be in a big hurry to marry him until you can sort things out.

Your husband to be should have enough respect for your own common sense that he won’t need to order you around. You should have enough in common with your values that there won’t be huge disputes about whose word is final.

And both of you should have a close enough knowlege of Christ and the church and your own relationship with God so that you submitting to your husband like the Church submitting to the mind of Christ and him loving you like Christ loving the Church doesn’t seem fanciful or odd.

Know what your fiance really believes before you agree to submit to it. If he’s in line with God, you’ll both do just fine.

 

[budgie2]

Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.

How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?

If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.

I’d ignore St. Paul. He was a male chauvinist. Notice that only husbands have to love their wives and the wives do not have to love them back. Also only wives have to submit to their husbands and the husbands do not submit back. So submit to him, but don’t love him.

 

[ac_claire]

Nonsense, St. Paul’s advice was perfect. 2,000+ years later and we’re still pondering the depths and layers of his wisdom. He really only says a relatively few words about marriage but it’s just brilliant. I have a new epiphany about it every time I re-read Ephesians.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Nonsense, St. Paul’s advice was perfect. 2,000+ years later and we’re still pondering the depths and layers of his wisdom. He really only says a relatively few words about marriage but it’s just brilliant. I have a new epiphany about it every time I re-read Ephesians.

:heaven:

And I just love what agape and Liberano posted, too. Great responses, folks!