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Liberanosamalo
Guest
Though it was written 2000 years ago, Truth is never bound to one time or place or culture. Note the mutual obligation of the spouses to the betterment of each other, each directed by God to give to the other what they, by their gender, most need. Let’s be real… what is every woman out there looking for: A man who will love her enough to die for her. Yep. A woman will do anything to get love, often to her own destruction. What kind of love did Christ show His Bride the Church? He died for her.
What does a man crave? Respect for his strength and judgment and leadership. Maybe we’re too stuck on our interpretation of OBEY. Maybe the word in the original text wasn’t in the sense that a slave obeys a master, but a submission to one who is in a natural leadership position, who will take care of her. So God told the women to obey their husbands. But with the caveat that the husbands are supposed to love their wives as they love their own bodies.
Both commands go to the very nature of men and women as God created them.
The responsibility for women is to make sure they pick someone worthy of obedience, not a tyrant, but someone who truly loves them, with a real and sacrificial love. And the responsibility of men in this is not to see his role as a tyrant or slavemaster, but as a protector, and never demand his wife do something detrimental to her own self. The love of both is called to be sacrificial and selfless. But in ways that correlate to the genders of the lover and the beloved.
Because if Eden taught us one thing, women weren’t created to be subservient creatures. God gave them free will too
. Eve was a curious woman who convinced Adam to disobey God. Rather than exercise leadership, saying, “Gee, Eve, that serpent looks pretty sketchy and we were told to back away from the apple tree. That’s a no go zone.” Nope. He became a follower. And then when caught, he blamed Eve. And then blamed God for giving her to him. So much for his manly responsibility.
And so go the relationships between men and women ever since.
Free will… a whole lotta fun, huh?
What does a man crave? Respect for his strength and judgment and leadership. Maybe we’re too stuck on our interpretation of OBEY. Maybe the word in the original text wasn’t in the sense that a slave obeys a master, but a submission to one who is in a natural leadership position, who will take care of her. So God told the women to obey their husbands. But with the caveat that the husbands are supposed to love their wives as they love their own bodies.
Both commands go to the very nature of men and women as God created them.
The responsibility for women is to make sure they pick someone worthy of obedience, not a tyrant, but someone who truly loves them, with a real and sacrificial love. And the responsibility of men in this is not to see his role as a tyrant or slavemaster, but as a protector, and never demand his wife do something detrimental to her own self. The love of both is called to be sacrificial and selfless. But in ways that correlate to the genders of the lover and the beloved.
Because if Eden taught us one thing, women weren’t created to be subservient creatures. God gave them free will too
. Eve was a curious woman who convinced Adam to disobey God. Rather than exercise leadership, saying, “Gee, Eve, that serpent looks pretty sketchy and we were told to back away from the apple tree. That’s a no go zone.” Nope. He became a follower. And then when caught, he blamed Eve. And then blamed God for giving her to him. So much for his manly responsibility.And so go the relationships between men and women ever since.
Free will… a whole lotta fun, huh?
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yablabo
Guest
Read Casti Connubii…Pope Pius XI explains about Christian Marriage:Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.
How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?
If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.
jingalls.com/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html
It’s best to search authoritative teaching before opinion…
– Nicole
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DominicVobiscum
Guest
Hello mdybible gal. Welcome to CAF.
I believe that Paul was talking about 2 things in Ephesians.
First of all, if you read the entire chapter, it should be obvious that marriage is a two way street. No where does it even hint that the wife should be a doormat. Husbands should love, cherish and protect their wives. Wives are not property (but of course you know that). Wives should be deferential to their husbands as the husband has the overall responsibility for the family. Deferential does not mean subserviant.
Second, I believe Paul was talking about “organizational structure”. Just as Jesus is the head of His Church (and who loves it more than we can ever know), the husband is the head of the family / household, and must ultimately answer to God on how he carries out this most important of dutues.
I think Titus reflects just good behavioral standards for everyone. (As a civil servant, I can appreciate the words about the slaves… )
Hope you come back again. Blessings to you and yours.
I believe that Paul was talking about 2 things in Ephesians.
First of all, if you read the entire chapter, it should be obvious that marriage is a two way street. No where does it even hint that the wife should be a doormat. Husbands should love, cherish and protect their wives. Wives are not property (but of course you know that). Wives should be deferential to their husbands as the husband has the overall responsibility for the family. Deferential does not mean subserviant.
Second, I believe Paul was talking about “organizational structure”. Just as Jesus is the head of His Church (and who loves it more than we can ever know), the husband is the head of the family / household, and must ultimately answer to God on how he carries out this most important of dutues.
I think Titus reflects just good behavioral standards for everyone. (As a civil servant, I can appreciate the words about the slaves…
)Hope you come back again. Blessings to you and yours.
S
severus68
Guest
Dear Budgie2,
I would not myself ignore St. Paul altogether but agree that that was a chauvinistic statement. This was a statement of the times.He actually talks further of the “Christian attitude” referring to Christ’s preaching equality. This is in the 1st letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians. A priest who wrote the commentary in a bible I read states “Paul spoke here according to his Jewish culture, chiefly male-centred, and repeats the same arguments of Jewish teachers. Then suddenly he realises that he is denying the equality proclaimed by Jesus and tries to turn back. By the way Paul ends the discussion, we see that he himself was aware of the weakness of his arguments.”
Why are so many on this thread going back to a pre Christ position. It is also a position taken by many " born again" Christians. To repond to another Member’s statement, I have found many women who are are a lot more analytical than many men.
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ac_claire
Guest
Jesus didn’t proclaim the kind of equality that made men and women exactly the same. Equal in dignity before God, yes. But fundamentally different in role and purpose. St. Paul was not speaking “of the times” and I’m sorry to hear you’ve come to believe that. These are timeless truths that speak to the fundamental nature of men and women.
If you see it as an issue of “equality” then you’re simply not seeing it right. I can sympathize though, I used to see it the same way. You might want to do a google or CAF search on Theology of the Body, it might help explain the concept better than I can.
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adopted_heir
Guest
To the OP, it takes a lot of work, but practice makes perfect and you can do it. God isn’t asking you to be a doormat, or a mousy frightened slave. He didn’t tell wives to submit because they’re inferior to husbands, that’s for sure. This isn’t a matter of justifying a chauvinist agenda. Read Proverbs 31 if you haven’t, and cultivate that woman’s traits. You’ll be too, too busy to be a doormat, for sure.
God made the man to be the head of the woman, that is, he is her authority and she is his helper, not his commander. God made Adam and told him to go out, conquer and subdue the world and name and bring home the bacon, then said, “Hey, it’s not right for you do be by yourself doing this. I’ll make you a helper fit for all your needs.” You’re going to be your husband’s helper in everything, and that’s going to mean putting yourself a little later on the list, but with practice and planning you can do it, and happily.
Learn to serve your husband happily, and find ways to ease his burden, and be happy making him happy, and he’ll treat you like a queen. You’re not being less of a person or inferior by serving, but you’re being a joy and a blessing to him, you’re doing what God made you to do, and you’re practicing a happy marriage. So much of it depends on your own attitude, but you can always change your attitude. You can’t hold things against him or imagine wrongs or keep grudges or give him the cold shoulder till he gives in, or any of that.
He’s going to be wrong, he’s going to do dumb stuff, and sometimes he’ll be just plain mean, but the glory is given to God when you treat him rightly anyway, and then he will appreciate you more than all his earthly wealth, and someday your children will love and cherish you because you loved and served their daddy.
I just recommended this book in another thread, but I’ll have to tout it here, too. Every wife should read “Created to be His Help Meet” by Michael and Debi Pearl. It revolves around these verses specifically and gives practical (really, step-by-step HOW to do this impossible thing) advice on being a good wife, even when your husband isn’t doing what he should be.
Congratulations and best of luck.
God made the man to be the head of the woman, that is, he is her authority and she is his helper, not his commander. God made Adam and told him to go out, conquer and subdue the world and name and bring home the bacon, then said, “Hey, it’s not right for you do be by yourself doing this. I’ll make you a helper fit for all your needs.” You’re going to be your husband’s helper in everything, and that’s going to mean putting yourself a little later on the list, but with practice and planning you can do it, and happily.
Learn to serve your husband happily, and find ways to ease his burden, and be happy making him happy, and he’ll treat you like a queen. You’re not being less of a person or inferior by serving, but you’re being a joy and a blessing to him, you’re doing what God made you to do, and you’re practicing a happy marriage. So much of it depends on your own attitude, but you can always change your attitude. You can’t hold things against him or imagine wrongs or keep grudges or give him the cold shoulder till he gives in, or any of that.
He’s going to be wrong, he’s going to do dumb stuff, and sometimes he’ll be just plain mean, but the glory is given to God when you treat him rightly anyway, and then he will appreciate you more than all his earthly wealth, and someday your children will love and cherish you because you loved and served their daddy.
I just recommended this book in another thread, but I’ll have to tout it here, too. Every wife should read “Created to be His Help Meet” by Michael and Debi Pearl. It revolves around these verses specifically and gives practical (really, step-by-step HOW to do this impossible thing) advice on being a good wife, even when your husband isn’t doing what he should be.
Congratulations and best of luck.
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remjsmom76
Guest
In there around the same passage about being submisive to your husband, there is a saying to the same from husband to head the wisdom the wife brings.
In all, what i get from is is that the both of you need to work together. Husbands need not be bossy nor wives should scold their husbands. Working together is key.
I always think of a comercial of Cheerios, where the husband picks up the box and says “Hmm Cheerios, are you trying to watch your weight?” wife says “No! Does it look like I need to watch my weight?” he says “No no…it just the box says its only 100 calories” and the wife continues with the interigation thens she says “What else does the box say?” and he says “SHUT UP Steve!” and she smiles. That to me says is an unblanaced marriage.
If it were me and my husband asked “Are you watchign your weight?” i would have said “Nope…just like the cereal” Why subject your spouse to an interogation then to end it with tellilng your spouse to SHUT UP??? You gonna have to give and take and so is he. Your gonna have to choose to argue or just say “Yes dear I understand” and leave it at that. Its how my husband and I are. Its how its been for a very long time. However it took almost 5 years for us to get this way cause we did have a “battle” for power. Both of us are the oldest in our families. So we are used to being in control. We are both very strong leaders. Little by little my husband and I fell into a way where we could both be leaders and follwers of each other. Just be paitent. Most women think that because I serve my husband his plate at parties that Im being a door mat. I dont see it that way, cause when I do that Im telling him I love him. He will in turn do something for me. Like for example right now as I type…Im alone at home. We have 4 kids. He took the kids so I can have a break, and he is working still, but he still took the girls. My way of serving him where other women may feel like Im being a door mat is my way of showing him I love him. Yet when I talk about what My husband does for me and how he shows me he loves me all the little things, not presents, not jewelry, not flowers, the little things…I get women asking me “Can you have your husband show my husband how to be a real man!” but I then sit and think “Wait a minute but how do you treat him?” men are easy to figure out. They need their feathers stroked every now and then, show them some loving and feed them and they are happy and will show you how happy they are with you. Go the extra mile you expect your husband to go and he will imitate you.
In all, what i get from is is that the both of you need to work together. Husbands need not be bossy nor wives should scold their husbands. Working together is key.
I always think of a comercial of Cheerios, where the husband picks up the box and says “Hmm Cheerios, are you trying to watch your weight?” wife says “No! Does it look like I need to watch my weight?” he says “No no…it just the box says its only 100 calories” and the wife continues with the interigation thens she says “What else does the box say?” and he says “SHUT UP Steve!” and she smiles. That to me says is an unblanaced marriage.
If it were me and my husband asked “Are you watchign your weight?” i would have said “Nope…just like the cereal” Why subject your spouse to an interogation then to end it with tellilng your spouse to SHUT UP??? You gonna have to give and take and so is he. Your gonna have to choose to argue or just say “Yes dear I understand” and leave it at that. Its how my husband and I are. Its how its been for a very long time. However it took almost 5 years for us to get this way cause we did have a “battle” for power. Both of us are the oldest in our families. So we are used to being in control. We are both very strong leaders. Little by little my husband and I fell into a way where we could both be leaders and follwers of each other. Just be paitent. Most women think that because I serve my husband his plate at parties that Im being a door mat. I dont see it that way, cause when I do that Im telling him I love him. He will in turn do something for me. Like for example right now as I type…Im alone at home. We have 4 kids. He took the kids so I can have a break, and he is working still, but he still took the girls. My way of serving him where other women may feel like Im being a door mat is my way of showing him I love him. Yet when I talk about what My husband does for me and how he shows me he loves me all the little things, not presents, not jewelry, not flowers, the little things…I get women asking me “Can you have your husband show my husband how to be a real man!” but I then sit and think “Wait a minute but how do you treat him?” men are easy to figure out. They need their feathers stroked every now and then, show them some loving and feed them and they are happy and will show you how happy they are with you. Go the extra mile you expect your husband to go and he will imitate you.
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adopted_heir
Guest
Exactly!!
Lol, you know, I hate that commercial. I want to slap that woman.
It’s easy, and a joy, to learn to delight your husband. Nobody wants to be tied to an old sad-sack bum, and it’s amazing how much of a man’s demeanor depends on his wife. You can build him up or tear him down. It really is up to you, and it begins with finding joy in being his wife, his queen, and his right hand.
Lol, you know, I hate that commercial. I want to slap that woman.
It’s easy, and a joy, to learn to delight your husband. Nobody wants to be tied to an old sad-sack bum, and it’s amazing how much of a man’s demeanor depends on his wife. You can build him up or tear him down. It really is up to you, and it begins with finding joy in being his wife, his queen, and his right hand.
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severus68
Guest
Dear a.c. Claire.
With respect, I do not think I am not seeing it right. God has no gender. Human beings spend too much of their time trying to impose their views on others. Many wish also to assert authority over others in one way or another. If a wife wishes to submit to her husband, I would have no issues with that. She has the free will to do so. It is all about the relationship. Whether it is a 100:100, 60:40 or whatever marriage, it is up to the parties. If a woman wants to stop work and take care of her children she is so entitled to, and would please God. In the same way, if a woman wishes to carry on working outside the home after having children, she is also entitled to and this would also please God. I do not wish to be facetious (sorry if that was misspelled) but should I tell the Catholic priest whose commentary on that part of St.Paul’s letter that he is wrong in his theology? This is in a Catholic Bible sold in my church. I did say that men and women are different - they are! They are also equal in every way. God made men and women to complement each other. I am no theologian and do not want to ‘preach’ to anyone but I do try to read and learn more about everything including my religion.
Thank you for responding. You are entitled to your own view of course.
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Don_Hepler
Guest
I love buffalo’s answer to your question.
I have been married 40 years to the same woman. If I may add to the post script that has been sited without saying to much. Your looking for council, for what it is worth.
I have found that a man is challenged in the concept of ownership, what belongs to him, these are mine, I own, I am this. and his wants are never ending. It is a wise woman who can rule her man without him knowing it. A man has an ego, He needs a woman who builds him, supports his ideas, encouragement. Most men are little boys, with bigger toys Now when you are married you may say “your not the man I thought”. This is what I think might be some wisdom. Love what is in his heart. do not loose your faith in him. Once you do, it is over. Remember the EGO that man has. You cannot build fires without oxgen Don’t feed it to much, or it will not believe you. You as a woman, have to deal with it. but if you build slowly, you may find you have built a masterpeace, Praise him for his love for God, Learn to be patience, longsuffering, gentle, meek. If you look at the women of the world and the races of man kind, of all the women, who do you admire the most. then learn from them that art of womanhood. A true woman of God and man is forgiving, she is consoleing, mothering, when he needs that. And remember that God can change the heart. So when the Ego gets in the way of his manly traits, and he will not change, then God will work your miracle. You women have no understanding of your power and influance over man, Your biggest problem is you are gullable and nieve, & it is a good thing, or you would never marry us.
I have been married 40 years to the same woman. If I may add to the post script that has been sited without saying to much. Your looking for council, for what it is worth.
I have found that a man is challenged in the concept of ownership, what belongs to him, these are mine, I own, I am this. and his wants are never ending. It is a wise woman who can rule her man without him knowing it. A man has an ego, He needs a woman who builds him, supports his ideas, encouragement. Most men are little boys, with bigger toys Now when you are married you may say “your not the man I thought”. This is what I think might be some wisdom. Love what is in his heart. do not loose your faith in him. Once you do, it is over. Remember the EGO that man has. You cannot build fires without oxgen Don’t feed it to much, or it will not believe you. You as a woman, have to deal with it. but if you build slowly, you may find you have built a masterpeace, Praise him for his love for God, Learn to be patience, longsuffering, gentle, meek. If you look at the women of the world and the races of man kind, of all the women, who do you admire the most. then learn from them that art of womanhood. A true woman of God and man is forgiving, she is consoleing, mothering, when he needs that. And remember that God can change the heart. So when the Ego gets in the way of his manly traits, and he will not change, then God will work your miracle. You women have no understanding of your power and influance over man, Your biggest problem is you are gullable and nieve, & it is a good thing, or you would never marry us.
A
adopted_heir
Guest
I would warn against mothering him, and sympathy. Those can tend to isolate you from the cruel, cruel world and emasculate him. Be careful not to pity or baby your man because you will nurse him into helplessness. Plus, a woman can plant seeds of bitterness in her husband’s heart that way. “I’m sorry they treat you so unfairly at work, honey. Charlie is taking such advantage of you. But you know I love you.” Be sure to buck him up, encourage him rather than pity him, and you’ll have a strong man who knows he has a support system in spite of what the world throws at him. “I know Charlie at work is giving you the runaround about that job, but you and I both know you’re a bigger man than he can stand. I believe in you!” Lift him up rather than snuggle him down, so you won’t extinguish his fires. The Old Testament tells of Jezebel and Ahab, and how Ahab laid in bed and turned his face to the wall, rendered infantile by Jezebel’s overnurturing. She wallowed with him in his discouragement, to everybody’s ruin.
As a wife you can make or break a man, it just depends on your responses to him. With a little practice, though, you can build a great thing and he will cherish you for it!
As a wife you can make or break a man, it just depends on your responses to him. With a little practice, though, you can build a great thing and he will cherish you for it!
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Shazaka
Guest
I was the coordinator of my parish’s marriage preparation program for many years and still give talks along with my wife for the program when asked. As can be expected, this subject comes up frequently, and we explain it in this way.
Yes, Paul tells wives to submit to their husbands, “as to the Lord.” This does not mean that they are to act as if their husbands are God. The husband is the head of the household. This does not mean that he is an unquestionable absolute sovereign. His headship as husband, father, and head of the house comes from God, and if his wife is to submit to him “as to the Lord,” then he should act like unto the Lord; what would Jesus do, and so on. Also, think of the husband as well as the CEO of a corporation. A wise CEO knows that he cannot do and is not competent at all the tasks required in running a company. He knows how to delegate tasks to a president, a manager, a finance officer, the head of human resources, etc. I know many couples where the wife works as a tax preparer. Obviously, the husband would be foolish to insist that he be the one to do the family’s tax return.
Finally, in return, husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves His church. How did Christ love His church? He washed the feet of His apostles. He told them that He had come, not to rule, but to serve. And He died for His church. Husbands must be willing to die for their wives. Not necessarily literally, but everyday husbands can die to themselves, sacrificing their own comfort, their own preferences, their own purposes, sacrificing themselves for their wives. Remember when husbands were just boyfriends wooing their future wives and would do anything, anything for them? Should husbands love their wives less just because their love has been sealed by God? Husbands, love your wives. Who, now, is the slave of whom? In fact, none of us are slaves. All of us are to submit freely, of our own choice and free will, to God, to Christ Jesus, our Lord.
I recommend reading the writings of St. John Chrysostom on this matter.
Yes, Paul tells wives to submit to their husbands, “as to the Lord.” This does not mean that they are to act as if their husbands are God. The husband is the head of the household. This does not mean that he is an unquestionable absolute sovereign. His headship as husband, father, and head of the house comes from God, and if his wife is to submit to him “as to the Lord,” then he should act like unto the Lord; what would Jesus do, and so on. Also, think of the husband as well as the CEO of a corporation. A wise CEO knows that he cannot do and is not competent at all the tasks required in running a company. He knows how to delegate tasks to a president, a manager, a finance officer, the head of human resources, etc. I know many couples where the wife works as a tax preparer. Obviously, the husband would be foolish to insist that he be the one to do the family’s tax return.
Finally, in return, husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves His church. How did Christ love His church? He washed the feet of His apostles. He told them that He had come, not to rule, but to serve. And He died for His church. Husbands must be willing to die for their wives. Not necessarily literally, but everyday husbands can die to themselves, sacrificing their own comfort, their own preferences, their own purposes, sacrificing themselves for their wives. Remember when husbands were just boyfriends wooing their future wives and would do anything, anything for them? Should husbands love their wives less just because their love has been sealed by God? Husbands, love your wives. Who, now, is the slave of whom? In fact, none of us are slaves. All of us are to submit freely, of our own choice and free will, to God, to Christ Jesus, our Lord.
I recommend reading the writings of St. John Chrysostom on this matter.
R
rwillenborg
Guest
I am not the OP, though I am reading this thread with particular interest.
A few people have touched on this, but can some more people chime in on giving a real-world example of a time in your life when you submitted to your husband (or when your wife submitted to you)?
Maybe I’m just not getting it.
For example, my husband wants to buy a $500 chest freezer. We already have one that works, he just wants a bigger one. I said ‘Well, we just spent alot of money on this, that and the other thing, so let’s wait until this one breaks down and then buy a new chest freezer.’ Hubby did not get what he wanted. He wanted the new one, and he wanted it now. Is this a case of me not submitting? If I were living according to this scripture verse, should I have said yes?
DH wants a pet kinkajou. They’re totally cute, I’m not gonna lie, but they are wild animals. Though I applaud the one that bit Paris Hilton, I recognize that one could just as easily bite one of my toddlers. Again, I said ‘No, absolutely not’. He begs me all the time to get one, and I continue to refuse. Again, I am certainly not submitting here. Should I be, if I am living in accordance with St. Paul’s teaching?
DH doesn’t want to be left alone with the children. So, my only opportunity to leave the house is after they are asleep or before they get up in the morning. I take full advantage of this - I go running at 5 am, to get back in time for 6:30 wake-up of the kids. If I see friends, it’s after 8, to make SURE that the girls are asleep. But a couple weeks ago a friend had an extra (and free!) ticket to a show I desperately wanted to see. It started at 7. DH didn’t want me to go, since that would leave him putting the kids to bed by himself. I assured him he could do it alone, and walked out the door.
Would a more loving wife have stayed?
I like to take the girls (they’re nearly two years old now) on bike rides. I put them in the bike trailer with helmets on, and off I go. DH didn’t want me to cross any major roads. That would have left me three blocks on which to ride. I said ‘Eh’ to his request and took the girls to the park, which was across the major road. Again, should I have just ridden my bike up and down the three blocks?
It’s difficult to convey tone through the internet so I will be blunt here. I’m not trying to be a snotty pants about this. When I say I don’t get it, I really, really don’t get it. In the above instances was I being a less-than-stellar wife?
DH also would prefer not to go to church or use NFP (he’s agnostic). How could I submit to those requests? Saint Paul doesn’t say to submit to your husband only if he’s right…
By the way, I don’t want to give the wrong impression about my husband -he’s awesome. I really do want to live my life according to God’s will, I just have trouble seeing that God willed that I own a kinkajou. 
A few people have touched on this, but can some more people chime in on giving a real-world example of a time in your life when you submitted to your husband (or when your wife submitted to you)?
Maybe I’m just not getting it.
For example, my husband wants to buy a $500 chest freezer. We already have one that works, he just wants a bigger one. I said ‘Well, we just spent alot of money on this, that and the other thing, so let’s wait until this one breaks down and then buy a new chest freezer.’ Hubby did not get what he wanted. He wanted the new one, and he wanted it now. Is this a case of me not submitting? If I were living according to this scripture verse, should I have said yes?
DH wants a pet kinkajou. They’re totally cute, I’m not gonna lie, but they are wild animals. Though I applaud the one that bit Paris Hilton, I recognize that one could just as easily bite one of my toddlers. Again, I said ‘No, absolutely not’. He begs me all the time to get one, and I continue to refuse. Again, I am certainly not submitting here. Should I be, if I am living in accordance with St. Paul’s teaching?
DH doesn’t want to be left alone with the children. So, my only opportunity to leave the house is after they are asleep or before they get up in the morning. I take full advantage of this - I go running at 5 am, to get back in time for 6:30 wake-up of the kids. If I see friends, it’s after 8, to make SURE that the girls are asleep. But a couple weeks ago a friend had an extra (and free!) ticket to a show I desperately wanted to see. It started at 7. DH didn’t want me to go, since that would leave him putting the kids to bed by himself. I assured him he could do it alone, and walked out the door.
Would a more loving wife have stayed?
I like to take the girls (they’re nearly two years old now) on bike rides. I put them in the bike trailer with helmets on, and off I go. DH didn’t want me to cross any major roads. That would have left me three blocks on which to ride. I said ‘Eh’ to his request and took the girls to the park, which was across the major road. Again, should I have just ridden my bike up and down the three blocks?
It’s difficult to convey tone through the internet so I will be blunt here. I’m not trying to be a snotty pants about this. When I say I don’t get it, I really, really don’t get it. In the above instances was I being a less-than-stellar wife?
DH also would prefer not to go to church or use NFP (he’s agnostic). How could I submit to those requests? Saint Paul doesn’t say to submit to your husband only if he’s right…
By the way, I don’t want to give the wrong impression about my husband -he’s awesome.
I really do want to live my life according to God’s will, I just have trouble seeing that God willed that I own a kinkajou.
G
Gabriella_San_S
Guest
It’s really about the disposition of*** your*** heart.If your husband is not a believer, than you need to focus on being holy yourself,and respecting the hubby’s position of authority on other matters of family life.(ie.not crossing busy roads with the bike because you are grateful for his concern for the family’s safety-next time ask for his suggestions as to where you could ride without taking a risk-instead of defying him.) I’m sure you can find other ways to let him know that you honor him and his strong character as the protector and provider of the family. Try to do it with affection, admiration and a bit of humor, too.It’s difficult to convey tone through the internet so I will be blunt here. I’m not trying to be a snotty pants about this. When I say I don’t get it, I really, really don’t get it. In the above instances was I being a less-than-stellar wife?
DH also would prefer not to go to church or use NFP (he’s agnostic). How could I submit to those requests? Saint Paul doesn’t say to submit to your husband only if he’s right…
By the way, I don’t want to give the wrong impression about my husband -he’s awesome.
The more fun you have together, keeps him from feeling isolated and misunderstood…it even keeps romance alive.
Finally, don’t forget that you are on the same team! God has called you together and has a perfect plan to see you through… with your cooperation, of course.
God bless.
A
ac_claire
Guest
I think Gabriella had some great replies. I still hope some of the more “seasoned” wives will chime in and answer your questions. In my opinion you were right to veto the kinkajou because that’s just a safety issue with the kids, and seems like it’s kind of a childish whim on his part. I could be wrong there, and I do realize that this could seem inconsistent…I am not the OP, though I am reading this thread with particular interest.
A few people have touched on this, but can some more people chime in on giving a real-world example of a time in your life when you submitted to your husband (or when your wife submitted to you)?
Maybe I’m just not getting it.
For example, my husband wants to buy a $500 chest freezer. We already have one that works, he just wants a bigger one. I said ‘Well, we just spent alot of money on this, that and the other thing, so let’s wait until this one breaks down and then buy a new chest freezer.’ Hubby did not get what he wanted. He wanted the new one, and he wanted it now. Is this a case of me not submitting? If I were living according to this scripture verse, should I have said yes?
DH wants a pet kinkajou. They’re totally cute, I’m not gonna lie, but they are wild animals. Though I applaud the one that bit Paris Hilton, I recognize that one could just as easily bite one of my toddlers. Again, I said ‘No, absolutely not’. He begs me all the time to get one, and I continue to refuse. Again, I am certainly not submitting here. Should I be, if I am living in accordance with St. Paul’s teaching?
DH doesn’t want to be left alone with the children. So, my only opportunity to leave the house is after they are asleep or before they get up in the morning. I take full advantage of this - I go running at 5 am, to get back in time for 6:30 wake-up of the kids. If I see friends, it’s after 8, to make SURE that the girls are asleep. But a couple weeks ago a friend had an extra (and free!) ticket to a show I desperately wanted to see. It started at 7. DH didn’t want me to go, since that would leave him putting the kids to bed by himself. I assured him he could do it alone, and walked out the door.
Would a more loving wife have stayed?
I like to take the girls (they’re nearly two years old now) on bike rides. I put them in the bike trailer with helmets on, and off I go. DH didn’t want me to cross any major roads. That would have left me three blocks on which to ride. I said ‘Eh’ to his request and took the girls to the park, which was across the major road. Again, should I have just ridden my bike up and down the three blocks?
It’s difficult to convey tone through the internet so I will be blunt here. I’m not trying to be a snotty pants about this. When I say I don’t get it, I really, really don’t get it. In the above instances was I being a less-than-stellar wife?
DH also would prefer not to go to church or use NFP (he’s agnostic). How could I submit to those requests? Saint Paul doesn’t say to submit to your husband only if he’s right…
By the way, I don’t want to give the wrong impression about my husband -he’s awesome.
The other examples you gave, I would say yes you should have let him buy the freezer…you should have stayed home instead of going out with your friend and you should have not taken the kids bicycling across a major road. These are just small ways to honor your husband. This is just my opinion and what I think I would do in your shoes.
It seems from your examples that you might not respect him all that much? And maybe he’s not exactly commanding of respect in his behavior and choices, but perhaps you could help him a bit in this regard by respecting him as the man you know and pray he can one day be…instead of just existing in a state of lowered expectations. You do your part and maybe he’d be inspired to (despite himself!) rise to his own part in a more worthy manner. Just some thoughts.
A
ac_claire
Guest
rwillenborg: As for the NFP thing…that’s a tricky one but I think that it’s your responsibility as a Catholic to NOT use artificial birth control. You submit in all things but sin.
See this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=358726
See this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=358726
C
Cat
Guest
(Quote shortened by Cat for space.)I am not the OP, though I am reading this thread with particular interest.
A few people have touched on this, but can some more people chime in on giving a real-world example of a time in your life when you submitted to your husband (or when your wife submitted to you)?
Maybe I’m just not getting it.
DH wants a pet kinkajou. They’re totally cute, I’m not gonna lie, but they are wild animals. Though I applaud the one that bit Paris Hilton, I recognize that one could just as easily bite one of my toddlers. Again, I said ‘No, absolutely not’. He begs me all the time to get one, and I continue to refuse. Again, I am certainly not submitting here. Should I be, if I am living in accordance with St. Paul’s teaching?
It’s difficult to convey tone through the internet so I will be blunt here. I’m not trying to be a snotty pants about this. When I say I don’t get it, I really, really don’t get it. In the above instances was I being a less-than-stellar wife?
By the way, I don’t want to give the wrong impression about my husband -he’s awesome.
I get the feeling that you’re kind of looking for an excuse to disregard your husband. I get the feeling you think he’s kind of a doofus. Please be careful. If you are a strong-minded woman and he’s more laid-back, you can get into the bad habit of dissing him, which can lead to your despising him and eventually, ignoring him. Don’t go down that path. The Bible tells women to respect their husbands. Stick with that, even if he brings hom a kinkajou. Just like all the rest of us, he’ll learn from mistakes.
I’ve been married over 30 years. In our marriage, it’s a “company.” My husband is the CEO, and I’m the VP. When we have to do “business,” e.g., buying a kinkajou, we have a “meeting.” He presents his point of view, I present mine. We try to arrive at a consensus, and usually, we agree, because we both have the best interests of our “company” at heart. After 30 years, we have an advantage over younger married couples because we usually know what works and what doesn’t for our “company.” But if there is a conflict, he is the CEO, so he gets to make that final decision.
That sounds unfair to you? Well, a lot of the decisions that he has to make are not easy and I personally would not want to make those decisions.
At one point, his company (IBM) was laying off employees, and many of his friends were taking the buy-out package, which was quite handsome. We talked it over, and he waited it out through three rounds of layoffs. Finally he made the decision to leave the company and take the buyout package–that was an extremely tough decision that he agonized over. It turned out to be a reasonably good decision because it got our kids into a private school (the details of the story are boring). Eventually he got back with IBM, where he is to this day.
A decision is a burden to carry. If he makes the wrong decision, he’s not the only one who suffers–his children suffer, too.
Many times, he makes the decision to allow ME to make the decision! After all, I’m the VP, and I often know more than he does about certain issues. That’s what a good CEO does–delegates as much as possible.
And when the girls were still living at home, he allowed THEM to make decisions, too.
There are a lot of decisions that we make separately, especially now that the kids are out of the house. When they were little, we had to be more diligent to check with each other about making plans, accepting invitations, etc. But now, he will often decide to travel out of state to participate in an ice dance weekend. He asks me if it will work out, though. And if I get a request to play piano for something, I usually just accept or decline without asking him, unless I’m not sure if the date is a conflict.
Although in our “company,” my husband does the finances, I know a LOT of families, including my daughter’s, where the WIFE does the finances. The husband has delegated this major area of their lives to her because she’s better at it.
I think many of you on this thread are a little hyper about this whole issue. Just relax and keep in mind that you can’t have two Presidents in a company. ONE of you has to make the decisions. That person should be the husband, and in some cases, he delegates all the decision-making authority to the wife, which is OK, too.
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Gabriella_San_S
Guest
(bolds mine) I guess you don’t consider* over 25 years* as wives, “seasoned” enough?
You mean I haven’t done enough time or I haven’t suffered enough yet?
L
Lifeisamazing
Guest
Well, if your soon to be husband is a real man that understands the meaning of submitting to one another, you will be fine.
My husband is currently trying to use this bible reference to bully and abuse me. He does not go to church or read the bible, though he likes to bring the Lord’s name out in front of others to make himself appear to be wonderful.
I wish I could make myself vulnerable to my husband. That would be a wonderful and holy exchange, but it takes two people respecting one another and serving the Lord. Do you have this with your husband? The trust in him has to be supreme. When I married, I was 25. My husband was 26. He was immature in some areas, but I thought we could grow together. I grew, and he didn’t.
I hope your relationship is solid in the here and now.
My husband is currently trying to use this bible reference to bully and abuse me. He does not go to church or read the bible, though he likes to bring the Lord’s name out in front of others to make himself appear to be wonderful.
I wish I could make myself vulnerable to my husband. That would be a wonderful and holy exchange, but it takes two people respecting one another and serving the Lord. Do you have this with your husband? The trust in him has to be supreme. When I married, I was 25. My husband was 26. He was immature in some areas, but I thought we could grow together. I grew, and he didn’t.
I hope your relationship is solid in the here and now.
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